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-   -   Breeding for Improvement? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/146370-breeding-improvement.html)

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Parti (Post 2250584)
So you would be fine with parti breeders producing an itemized cost to justify the cost of the puppy. So the first litter should cost $10,000 per puppy and following litters about 250 a pup. Somehow I don't think this is going to work very well. I think I will stick to spreading the cost out over several litters and then lowering the price with time as it is currently working.
Of course you have to spread it out over several litters. :rolleyes: But other than that, yes, I do believe that is the general idea. And then it is up to the individual to determine if they agree with the breeders ethics and what they are putting into their dogs/program.

Amber_lv 09-22-2008 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2250576)
No one has asked anything of the YTCA, and if i were personally to ask anything of them it would be to leave us alone and not to make unproven negative statements about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Parti (Post 2250587)
I second that
I wasn't going to post anything but i felt maybe this could help....

Maybe if you don't call them Yorkies and call them Parti terriers or golden terriers or what ever terriers they wouldn't have a cause to say anything to you about what you are breeding. I think the whole thing is over calling the off colored ones Yorkies which don't fit with in the standard?????

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2250586)
And we paid a higher price to make sure that we got a good one from a good breeder and a good line, not something that might or might not be a yorkie.
And if you firmly believe that, then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I'm curious as to what made the dogs that you got "worth" the price you paid vs other dogs? Was it just that you liked the dogs better, or were there other elements to the breeders program that she had to cover costs for? Clearly, she wasn't covering show costs... Was it extra testing and research? Champion lines? Does that make sense?

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Parti (Post 2250587)
I second that
You second them leaving parti breeders alone, but you question why they don't make up and regulate the standard themselves. That is a bit contradictory, no?

JeanieK 09-22-2008 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLuv Reeses (Post 2250532)
I really think it would be nice if instead of seeking acceptance to be included in the standard, which is quite impossible since YTCA is for the yorkshire terrier standard representative of the true yorkshire terrier breed, parti breeders can have their own group. In this way they can seek to protect their breeding against those who simply breed for money and for puppy milling since parti yorkie breeders would just want to share their nice experience for those who want something unique. They can also further any studies about parti specific concerns if there's any on top of the general yorkie breed concern. It won't be an official club as compared to the YTCA, but it would definitely be a nice move against puppymillers and such. At least, they can educate well that partis are not of standard coloring and be able to choose to which hands these parti carriers (those with full registration and breeding rights) and promote responsible breeding without threatening the existence of the true and standard yorkies. In this way, the parti lines will be controlled and they can improve other aspects aside from the color. JMO.
This is all in the works, but when you get to putting it like that i fear we would begin to be too much like the YTCA, tell others who can and cannot breed.

There are always going to be bad breeders out there. all we can do is to make sure that we have a common goal, and hopefully some day we will get official recognition. meanwhile we will work amoung ourselves to produce quality yorkies of all colors. and we will educate the public about the coloreds by giving them all the information that we have been able to scrape up.

Golden Parti 09-22-2008 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2250609)
You second them leaving parti breeders alone, but you question why they don't make up and regulate the standard themselves. That is a bit contradictory, no?
No, I don't really want them to regulate it since they are so against them, I was simply throwing an idea out there. I think you will see Parti breeders organize in the very neer future.;)

Golden Parti 09-22-2008 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber_lv (Post 2250596)
I wasn't going to post anything but i felt maybe this could help....

Maybe if you don't call them Yorkies and call them Parti terriers or golden terriers or what ever terriers they wouldn't have a cause to say anything to you about what you are breeding. I think the whole thing is over calling the off colored ones Yorkies which don't fit with in the standard?????
A puppy from an AKC Yorkshire Terrier bred to and AKC yorkshire terrier is a Yorkshire Terrier regardles of weather or not it is the right color to win a Show. AKC registers them as Yorkshire Terriers so why do you think we should call them something else?

JeanieK 09-22-2008 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2250559)
What I can't understand is that you can see this is unscrupulous marketing, yet can't see that's it's unscrupulous marketing to breed a fault, and call it "rare and unique."

It is only a fault becAuse the YTCA has declared it to be one, it does not meant that there is anything wrong with the dogs. The YTCA seems to think that they are the only ones fit to determine who shoulod breed and who should not breed. these dogs are not unsound and their color is part off the original makeup of the yorkie. we are not taking anything away from the traditional colored yhorkies, we are not ruining the breed and we are not breeding unsound dogs. And i personally have never called one rare or unique. They are not common, but they will be in time.



No the Nazis, told the Jews they were not fit to live. No one is suggesting that these dogs be put to death. Some of us believe that if a dog doesn't meet standard he shouldn't be breed. There is a huge difference.

yup that is all Hitler did too, he set standards and anyone who did not meet the standard wasn't fit to procreate. If he had had his way we would all be blue eyed blonds. Oh that's right I am one, and if you aren't, that makes me superior to you.

this is man imposing standards for something that God created. Standards come and standards go, they have changed before and they will change again, but not without someone pushing for change.

Amber_lv 09-22-2008 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2250635)
It is only a fault becAuse the YTCA has declared it to be one, it does not meant that there is anything wrong with the dogs. The YTCA seems to think that they are the only ones fit to determine who shoulod breed and who should not breed. these dogs are not unsound and their color is part off the original makeup of the yorkie. we are not taking anything away from the traditional colored yhorkies, we are not ruining the breed and we are not breeding unsound dogs. And i personally have never called one rare or unique. They are not common, but they will be in time.
.
But every breed has it's own set standard right?? i mean you don't see any rotwilers(sp) being bred to have white and red markings they are bred to have black and tan markings it is what makes them distingishable from a black lab or a poodle right?

I don't have a problem with you or anyone who wants to breed the off colors i for one DO like the party look in any breed but all i was saying is it isn't the standard like stated above if you seen a red and white Rotty you wouldn't know it was a rotty.

The thing i respect about the Biewers is that they recognize that the color is not a yorkie standard although they came from yorkies they are not called yorkies they don't want to be added as a sub group to the yorkies they want their own name and standard. Why should this be different from the other colors??? if you want to breed them call them Golden Terriers, Chocolate Terriers, Purple People Eaters (LOL) :rolleyes:etc???

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 05:08 PM
Alright...my involvement in this discussion is done. Far to many offensive terms being tossed around for my taste. I don't associate myself with it off the net, not going to do it on this forum either. Thanks to all who participated in an intersting discussion in a civil manner without purposely offending others.

JeanieK 09-22-2008 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber_lv (Post 2250596)
I wasn't going to post anything but i felt maybe this could help....

Maybe if you don't call them Yorkies and call them Parti terriers or golden terriers or what ever terriers they wouldn't have a cause to say anything to you about what you are breeding. I think the whole thing is over calling the off colored ones Yorkies which don't fit with in the standard?????
But they are yorkies. They had yorkie parents that makes them yorkies.
You can call them what you want that does not change what they are. and I'm pretty sure that if we started calling them by some other name the YTCA would accuse us of trying to mislead people into thinking we had developed and new rare unique breed of dog.

iLuv Reeses 09-22-2008 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2250618)
This is all in the works, but when you get to putting it like that i fear we would begin to be too much like the YTCA, tell others who can and cannot breed.

There are always going to be bad breeders out there. all we can do is to make sure that we have a common goal, and hopefully some day we will get official recognition. meanwhile we will work amoung ourselves to produce quality yorkies of all colors. and we will educate the public about the coloreds by giving them all the information that we have been able to scrape up.
IMO It's not really about branding people about who can and can not breed. It's more about ensuring those who wants to breed to be geared with the right knowledge which will be more pro-active rather than reactive to whatever arises. There are some breeders with good intention and love for their dogs but unaware of some of their bad practices because they weren't mentored right. As a group, you can find more information and more voice to educate about responsible breeding and ensure that whatever goals you have can be continued to the ones next in line. :)

Nancy1999 09-22-2008 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2250635)
yup that is all Hitler did too, he set standards and anyone who did not meet the standard wasn't fit to procreate. If he had had his way we would all be blue eyed blonds. Oh that's right I am one, and if you aren't, that makes me superior to you.

this is man imposing standards for something that God created. Standards come and standards go, they have changed before and they will change again, but not without someone pushing for change.
You might say Hitler was breeding for the recessive gene too. :eek:


I got to say I am confused about what some of you think the purpose of the mother club should be, they're not suppose to set a standard, so what should be their purpose?

Brooklynn 09-22-2008 05:14 PM
I wasn't going to comment and as much as I love the yorkshire terrier and believe and go by the code of conduct and ethics of the YTCA (yes I'm a member)...I do not think we need to be comparing a "yorkie" to human life and the suffering the jewish people endured and died because of Hitler. I actually find it offensive. No I'm not jewish but I have friends that are and I think it has no business on this thread. Not trying to be mean just I find it rather offensive.
JMHO

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Nancy1999 09-22-2008 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2250648)
But they are yorkies. They had yorkie parents that makes them yorkies.
You can call them what you want that does not change what they are. and I'm pretty sure that if we started calling them by some other name the YTCA would accuse us of trying to mislead people into thinking we had developed and new rare unique breed of dog.

That's exactly what you are doing, you are calling them Partis.


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