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-   -   Breeding for Improvement? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/146370-breeding-improvement.html)

iLuv Reeses 09-21-2008 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2249273)
What year was the YTCA formed?
There were 3 attempts:

1913-First YTCA founded by Mr. Peabody. This lasted till 1919.
1915-1924 A Yorkshire Terrier Association of America was formed and the president was Mrs. Thompson.
*In the overlaping time-frame... the 2 breed clubs co-existed.

1937 the YTCA started but has to stop during the period of the war but later on resumed to be the present day YTCA.

More info:
History of the Yorkshire Terrier
by Joan Gordon
History of the Yorkshire Terrier by Joan Gordon

Golden Parti 09-21-2008 09:02 PM
Great website, thank you for sharing that link.

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249257)
That is true, and it is evident in their coloring, there are many Biewers out there that the color does not break and the black on the head remains bloack.

The parti on the other hand is pure yorkie. The DNA proved that and there is written documentation from the AKC to verify that fact.
Th only thing that the DNA proved is that the dogs were the parents of the puppies. You dont know what went on generations before the DNA test.

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Parti (Post 2248921)
Holy cow $84,000 for the whole YTCA that is pretty sad if that figure is accurate. I have spent almost half that by myself on my dogs and researching to find out if there really are problems with parti's and Goldens.
It too bad you have spent jillions of dollars on pet quality.

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2249156)
I was always thinking (just my own thoughts of where the white gene came from) that it was a Maltese. Reason is because back in the 80's most of the people that had a yorkie/s also had Malteses. Similar to yorkie people also owning Crested now.
T.
If the Maltese was used, which is doubtful, wouldnt it stand to reason that the Silkies would have the white proble also as the Yorkie is one of the 3 breeds that made up that breed?

iLuv Reeses 09-21-2008 10:10 PM
oops... i'll just correct my post... if you don't mind. thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLuv Reeses (Post 2249327)
I have read that part as well. As reds (wired coated ones which changed their coat texture while breaking their colors) can bring out the color when bred with a silky coated (not wooly/cottony) in its immediate progenies. However, it also comes back down in the succeeding generation of the line.

"Years ago Mrs. Annie Swan, of the Invincia Yorkies, told us to keep one in our breeding program. She said everyone kept a so called "Red". They occasionally appeared from silky coated parents. No one ever showed them, but since they had the ability to return color pattern to it's proper boundaries and the ability to darken the color of a lighter dog when bred to them, they were on occasion bred in. Bred to cottony or wooly texture they usually have little effect. Bred to silk texture they improve color. Bred together they usually produce themselves and occasionally a lovely colored silk dog - but this is the exception."

paragraph lifted from:
Color & Texture article of Joan Gordon
to read more...
Color & Texture by Joan Gordon

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249255)
As I clearly stated, the various color genes might also be responsible for other things such as skin coat teeth etc. By totally eliminating one particular gene, that was a natural part of the yorkie gene pool, other issues might arise.

For example, in those funny little hairless crested dogs. The gene that causes them to be hairless, also causes them to lose their teeth.

If you read any historical articles (other than the YTCA's highly biased) information, you will learn that the dogs that made up the original yorkshire terrier were a variety of colors, so why wouldn't they carry these other recessive genes.

You keep reiterating the same things over and over every time this issue comes up in a new thread. You have not come up with any research to support your comments, other than they YTCA.

I repeatedly back you into a corner because, unlike you, I do research the subject, and then you come out of the corner throwing around erroneous insults about puppy millers and bybs and the thread eventually ends up getting closed.

So folks be prepared for this thread to be closed soon.
Im sorry, exactly WHERE is it that you have "backed me into a corner"? It just seems to me that if anybldy is not on the same page as your AGENDA you feel the need to bash that person. Do you tink that YOU are the only person to do any research? Think again!! Dont assume that you know anything about me or what I have or have not researched. As for re-iterating the same thing over and over, you need to look in the mirror. The standar color Yorkie is doing just fine and dandy without the addition of the parti clors which will do absolutley nothing to improve the breed.

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249255)
As I clearly stated, the various color genes might also be responsible for other things such as skin coat teeth etc. By totally eliminating one particular gene, that was a natural part of the yorkie gene pool, other issues might arise.

For example, in those funny little hairless crested dogs. The gene that causes them to be hairless, also causes them to lose their teeth.

If you read any historical articles (other than the YTCA's highly biased) information, you will learn that the dogs that made up the original yorkshire terrier were a variety of colors, so why wouldn't they carry these other recessive genes.

You keep reiterating the same things over and over every time this issue comes up in a new thread. You have not come up with any research to support your comments, other than they YTCA.

I repeatedly back you into a corner because, unlike you, I do research the subject, and then you come out of the corner throwing around erroneous insults about puppy millers and bybs and the thread eventually ends up getting closed.

So folks be prepared for this thread to be closed soon.
As to this thread getting closed, it was very peaceful until you chimed in. So, go ahead and close the thread.

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2249143)
I personally would never use a red leg. I knew a lot of good AKC/show breeders in the past too and they never used a red legged either. I would not want that short hair gene running in my pups I was responsible for. Just my opinion. I would rather breed to a correct silky coat. I also look at color of the tan and want it to be vibrant. Today there are so many yorkies with good color and silky texture - you do not need a red legged, so why do it! I go by the standard.
Of course structure is the most important!! You must have that first! It is like the flour of the cake. It holds everything together well! You know what I mean?
It is also important to test your dogs and have them evaluated before breeding. And learn all you can about their pedigrees. This will help in producing healthy pups/dogs.
T.

:thumbup::thumbup:Exactly!!

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Parti (Post 2248921)
Holy cow $84,000 for the whole YTCA that is pretty sad if that figure is accurate. I have spent almost half that by myself on my dogs and researching to find out if there really are problems with parti's and Goldens.
I think that you should give yourself a gold star!

yorkiekist 09-21-2008 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249255)
As I clearly stated, the various color genes might also be responsible for other things such as skin coat teeth etc. By totally eliminating one particular gene, that was a natural part of the yorkie gene pool, other issues might arise.

For example, in those funny little hairless crested dogs. The gene that causes them to be hairless, also causes them to lose their teeth.

If you read any historical articles (other than the YTCA's highly biased) information, you will learn that the dogs that made up the original yorkshire terrier were a variety of colors, so why wouldn't they carry these other recessive genes.

You keep reiterating the same things over and over every time this issue comes up in a new thread. You have not come up with any research to support your comments, other than they YTCA.

I repeatedly back you into a corner because, unlike you, I do research the subject, and then you come out of the corner throwing around erroneous insults about puppy millers and bybs and the thread eventually ends up getting closed.

So folks be prepared for this thread to be closed soon.

OK, point me in the direction of those historical articles, other than the extremely biased YTCA articals. I want a good read or good laugh, which ever it may be. Got any unbiased web-sites? Please post them for me.

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249270)
I'd like to know exactly what type of research they if it wasn't to breed the dogs and then record the results?
I'm sure they'd help you out with that info if you contacted them. :) Much better than making assumptions, IMO.

wildcard 09-22-2008 07:23 AM
Research
 
The YTCA Foundation, Inc. was created in 1991 as an arm of the YTCA to collect and disperse donations for research into health issues related to the YT. It collects and donates $ to the AKC CHF (Canine Health Foundation) and is allowed to direct where its donations are spent within the AKC CHF. The AKC CHF in turns provides the funds to actual research scientists (generally at universities) that use it to pay for particular projects, for example, studies of liver shunt, liver disease and endocrine disease in breeds (sometimes just YT, sometimes in combination with other breeds who have similar disorders). You can visit the AKC CHF site to learn what programs are related to what breeds and who has donated funds-- here is the YT page AKC Canine Health Foundation Grants Listings

As you can see, there is a whole lot more to it that having a breeding program and recording results. I am not a YTCA member but I highly doubt that the YTCA funds its own breeding program and calls it research.

wildcard 09-22-2008 07:26 AM
Research
 
Also, the AKC CHF accepts donations from individuals as well if anyone is interested in helping to support a study outside of a breed parent club
AKC Canine Health Foundation - Donate Now

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2249670)
The YTCA Foundation, Inc. was created in 1991 as an arm of the YTCA to collect and disperse donations for research into health issues related to the YT. It collects and donates $ to the AKC CHF (Canine Health Foundation) and is allowed to direct where its donations are spent within the AKC CHF. The AKC CHF in turns provides the funds to actual research scientists (generally at universities) that use it to pay for particular projects, for example, studies of liver shunt, liver disease and endocrine disease in breeds (sometimes just YT, sometimes in combination with other breeds who have similar disorders). You can visit the AKC CHF site to learn what programs are related to what breeds and who has donated funds-- here is the YT page AKC Canine Health Foundation Grants Listings

As you can see, there is a whole lot more to it that having a breeding program and recording results. I am not a YTCA member but I highly doubt that the YTCA funds its own breeding program and calls it research.
Thanks for the info. I guess that dispells that theory, although I'm sure there are many more where that one came from....:rolleyes:


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