oh what to do

[bilbao]

i agree it would be a bad idea for an 11 or 12 year old to get pregnant but if it did and im sure it happens more than we think. if it did happen would you demand that she have an abortion and then have her go under the knife to make sure she didnt ever have children again? or would you let it happen and let the family learn from their mistakes? just a thought...

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by bilbao

i agree it would be a bad idea for an 11 or 12 year old to get pregnant but if it did and im sure it happens more than we think. if it did happen would you demand that she have an abortion and then have her go under the knife to make sure she didnt ever have children again? or would you let it happen and let the family learn from their mistakes? just a thought...

Not touching the human abortion issue with a 10 foot pole... my analogy was simply intended to point out how a dog can be biologically ready to be bred but not mentally ready, not to carry over to whether or not puppy fetuses and human fetuses have the same "life value." For me at least spaying a dog and losing puppies is a different issue from human abortion.

If I had a 9 month old bitch that got pregnant (which in my house would be next to a miracle because my intact boys and intact girls are always separated when unattended, even when the girls are not in season) I would think long and hard about what value I expected her to add to my breeding "program" in the future and whether or not I should sacrifice what she could add versus whether it is fair to require a puppy to whelp puppies and raise puppies. It would have to be a pretty darn important bitch genetically speaking for me to sacrifice the well being of my individual dog over that of the "program" as a whole as I am still in the mentality of caring for my dogs as individuals over the success of the "program." All of my girls eventually "go under the knife" and are spayed at some point anyway, which ends their ability to reproduce, I don't consider dogs to have a moral right or emotional need to breed. The question for my girls is whether it is done sooner rather than later...

[bilbao]

im just saying whats done is done and it probably wasnt done but my purpose for coming on here and looking for "expert" (i use that word loosely) advise on what to do for her and the pups if there are pups. im not looking to get her spayed and im not looking to get her a shot to abort any pups either. if she is having babies they deserve life as much as your dogs or my dogs and i know they will not end up in shelter or anywhere else like that. i agree she is very young to be having pups but there was no way we could keep my dogs apart sure physically we could have been better and separating them but they depend on each other they are best friends and i couldnt do that to them. im no breeder that has 14 bitches that just pop babies out i have 2 dogs and that is it so i understand how you can bring yourself to keep yours separated they probably only see each other when its time to make babies. mine are complete opposite of that they are always together they groom each other they protect each other and they hate being apart. i have separated them before and they both get very depressed and do nothing but sleep no eating or playing nothing just sleep. so after 3 days of observing our male not even get close to being big enough to breed we made the decision (which wasnt the wisest) to let them just play and be happy. im sorry you dont agree with what "maybe" happened i dont even agree with it but i am willing to accept it because i am not a puppy mill or anything like that. life is full of mistakes and all we can do is learn from them.

[Tnyorkiemom]

ok...im probably sticking my foot in my mouth but here goes....
1. yes this would be a mixed litter....in her initial comment she stated that the female is a yorkie/poo and the male is a yorkie (by the way i think if there was a litter out of these 2 they would be absolutely gorgeous)
2....Spay/Neuter...if all dogs were spayed/neutered as some continually advise in post after post...then the yorkie population would die...you have to breed to get pups.
3. what is done(if it took) is done...and all she needs to hear now is that she is doing the best for her female as she can.
4...no breeder started out as an experienced breeder...we all start somewhere.
5...this is to you(original poster)....find a mentor (if and when she is preg)....and try to get one that is very confident in their experience....question everything...it doesnt make you sound stupid...actually it makes you sound very intelligent...intelligent people question everything...it is how they learn....good luck sweetie....and NO im not a breeder yet...still getting info....God Bless

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

ok...im probably sticking my foot in my mouth but here goes....
1. yes this would be a mixed litter....in her initial comment she stated that the female is a yorkie/poo and the male is a yorkie (by the way i think if there was a litter out of these 2 they would be absolutely gorgeous)
2....Spay/Neuter...if all dogs were spayed/neutered as some continually advise in post after post...then the yorkie population would die...you have to breed to get pups.
3. what is done(if it took) is done...and all she needs to hear now is that she is doing the best for her female as she can.
4...no breeder started out as an experienced breeder...we all start somewhere.
5...this is to you(original poster)....find a mentor (if and when she is preg)....and try to get one that is very confident in their experience....question everything...it doesnt make you sound stupid...actually it makes you sound very intelligent...intelligent people question everything...it is how they learn....good luck sweetie....and NO im not a breeder yet...still getting info....God Bless

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

1. yes this would be a mixed litter....in her initial comment she stated that the female is a yorkie/poo and the male is a yorkie (by the way i think if there was a litter out of these 2 they would be absolutely gorgeous)

I don't see anywhere that the OP was criticized for this. I'm at a loss as to why this aspect keeps being brought up and defended?

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

2....Spay/Neuter...if all dogs were spayed/neutered as some continually advise in post after post...then the yorkie population would die...you have to breed to get pups.

Where was it ever suggested that '
ALL dogs should be spayed/neutered'...?

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

3. what is done(if it took) is done...and all she needs to hear now is that she is doing the best for her female as she can.

Agreed! And the answers she has been given are what people individually feel would be 'best' for the female.

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

4...no breeder started out as an experienced breeder...we all start somewhere.

Agreed again! The responsible somewhere to 'start' would be by researching and working with a mentor, not breeding a pair and then trying to 'learn as you go.' (Generally speaking, not regarding this situation.)

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

5...this is to you(original poster)....find a mentor (if and when she is preg)....and try to get one that is very confident in their experience....

Agreed. If the course of action taken is to allow this girl to carry the possible litter, then that would be the best chance at success.

[wildcard]

My dogs most certainly see each other other than when it is time to be bred. Bitches in season (and due to the dormitory effect most of my bitches come in within a few weeks of each other) are kept apart from intact males 100% of the time, whether I am around or not. When the bitches are not in season they are, when I am there to supervise, out and about along with everyone else, intact or not. I train my dogs for conformation, agility and obedience and whoever is in training comes out with me at the same time to practice, they travel together in a motorhome, and when I am not home they are crated in the same room together. I think you are making some assumptions about people who have experience breeding dogs that are not necessarily true and if you are implicating that for me breeding dogs is some kind of a business (I don't have 14 bitches that pop puppies out, I have 3 intact bitches of my own-- none of which has had a litter yet and one of which will never be bred--my litters have all been co-breedings with my mentor) you could not be more off base.

Regardless, you are right, what is done is done, and since you obviously do not want to spay your girl I hope that she and the puppies are healthy. It is highly likely that she is having a false heat anyway. If that is the case, I hope you are better able to keep the two dogs separate on future heat cycles if you leave them both intact. If you are not able to keep them separated during heat cycles she very well may end up pregnant on every cycle.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by bilbao

i agree she is very young to be having pups but there was no way we could keep my dogs apart sure physically we could have been better and separating them but they depend on each other they are best friends and i couldnt do that to them.

No offense, but it seems like it would have been better than the possible situation you and your girl are in now.

Originally Posted by bilbao

i have separated them before and they both get very depressed and do nothing but sleep no eating or playing nothing just sleep.

In the event that your girl does have a litter, how do you think they will act when they are separated then? Just something to plan for in advance.

Originally Posted by bilbao

im sorry you dont agree with what "maybe" happened i dont even agree with it but i am willing to accept it life is full of mistakes and all we can do is learn from them.

Don't apologize because others don't agree with you! People have differing opinions--we are not all going to agree on how to best handle a situation 100% of the time. People have been giving you opinions and suggestions on what they would do because you asked. If it is not the course of action you want to take, that is your choice, but advice that you don't agree with is certainly nothing to feel bad about, either because you disagree with it, or because you gave it.

(And generally speaking, advice given that my not have been the desired answer does not equate to a member being bashed or attacked....geez....)

[Tnyorkiemom]

my comment about the mixed breeds was just a statement...not rehassing....i for one dont have a problem with mixed breeding if that is what the owner wants to do so be it...they are her dogs arent they?

and on the spay/nueter comment...i have read many many posts and seems nearly everytime some one has an "accidental" breeding the first thing that pops out of someone's "mouth" is to spay/nueter as soon as possible...
(go back and read some of your own posts in other threads)...i did

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

my comment about the mixed breeds was just a statement...not rehassing....i for one dont have a problem with mixed breeding if that is what the owner wants to do so be it...they are her dogs arent they?

Ok...I guess I'm just missing how a general statment was relevant to the situation...

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

and on the spay/nueter comment...i have read many many posts and seems nearly everytime some one has an "accidental" breeding the first thing that pops out of someone's "mouth" is to spay/nueter as soon as possible...
(go back and read some of your own posts in other threads)...i did

Well, that is quite a different story--and certainly not the same as recommending ALL dogs be s/n, as you stated. Yes, when "accidental" breedings happen and it puts the female in a high risk category or it was a dog that the owner had planned on having spayed anyway, spay is the general advice given. In many cases it is a better option than allowing the litter to be carried.

[Tnyorkiemom]

Bilbao.....good luck to you...im always available if you want to chat...i read up alot and if i can ansewer any question i will try.....i always back up my answer with where i found it...so if i say it is a fact it is provable...if i state an opinion i say it upfront...that it is only an opinion....what a great nation we live in that we can speak our minds and not be arrested or even worse killed just for our opinions....God's Speed to all

[emilyann]

Misty, there's honestly no point in coming back here time and time again and responding to the "opinions" of others. I've still been reading the thread but have tried my hardest to not respond due to the "pouting" I have seen in several posts after the fact. We gave our opinions, it's not our fault those who choose to disagree with it want to do it in such a manner as they have. If the OP wanted "expert advice" as she stated in a few replies up, she should have seen her vet instead of a forum where people are very concerned about animals and inexperienced breeding (someone who has NO idea what they're doing) in general.

Also, if people want to consider it as "bashing" then let them, whatever floats their boat. The OP was responded to in the nicest way possible when disagreeing and you honestly can't help how people are going to take things. I, for one, am not going to feel sorry for it - I guess that just makes me a meanie head, oh well.

To the OP, I'd say if you were going to get the advice you want to hear, you would've gotten it by now if someone wanted to tell it. Maybe you should get in touch with your vet to better see how you should handle this matter. Have a great day!

[bilbao]

Originally Posted by emilyann

Misty, there's honestly no point in coming back here time and time again and responding to the "opinions" of others. I've still been reading the thread but have tried my hardest to not respond due to the "pouting" I have seen in several posts after the fact. We gave our opinions, it's not our fault those who choose to disagree with it want to do it in such a manner as they have. If the OP wanted "expert advice" as she stated in a few replies up, she should have seen her vet instead of a forum where people are very concerned about animals and inexperienced breeding (someone who has NO idea what they're doing) in general.

To the OP, I'd say if you were going to get the advice you want to hear, you would've gotten it by now if someone wanted to tell it. Maybe you should get in touch with your vet to better see how you should handle this matter. Have a great day!

i have called my vet but due to my geographical location we only have 1 vet within a four hour drive and he happens to be out of town until the first of next week so i felt that this would be the next best thing but aparantly that was a bad idea. those of you who are actually concerned and have helped i say thanks and to those of you who just create conflict i say shame on you.

[emilyann]

Originally Posted by bilbao

i have called my vet but due to my geographical location we only have 1 vet within a four hour drive and he happens to be out of town until the first of next week so i felt that this would be the next best thing but aparantly that was a bad idea. those of you who are actually concerned and have helped i say thanks and to those of you who just create conflict i say shame on you.

It only caused conflict because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. You act as if we're out to get you or something, which is very sad. If we weren't concerned, we wouldn't have even bothered replying. Best of luck to you with whatever you decide to do with your dogs in the future.

[MyTrixie143]

There is a good chance that your girl isn't pregnant with them both being so young.
If she is pregnant then she should be showing around her 6th to 7th week.
At 55 days if you feel she is pregnant, take her into the vet for an xray. This will tell if she is pregnant, how many puppies she may have and whether they are a good size for her to pass naturally.

In the mean time you should be reading up on the whelping process so you are prepared. You should also see if you can find someone around you who is experienced to help you and can be there with you during the delivery to guide you. You also need to make sure you have all the whelping supplies on hand before the due date.

Here is a great site with lots of information on the whole process.
Canine Reproduction Video and Book on Breeding and Whelping dogs by Debbie Jensen for dog breeders and Whelping Supplies needed to deliver puppies.

Good luck!!