Michigan Breeders-Very Important Info. PLEASE READ! - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

MindieRose · 09-05-2008, 06:10 PM

Putting this bill in place would be like taking away a persons right to own a gun (well on a totally different level, but bare with me here...). Point being that even if people were not allowed to own guns, the "bad guys" will always find a way to get them. The only people it would hurt are those that obey the laws, since they would be left with nothing to defend themselves.
How does this compare? Well this will not even touch the puppy mill situation IMO. They will continue to exsist and thrive, and maybe do better since many of the small scale reputable breeders will be out of business.
I will always stand by my belief that over crowding and overpopulation in shelters is not because of the breeder that doesnt breed the perfect dog, or mixes breeds. It is the breeder that will let anyone come and take a dog and never screen or do everything they can to ensure their pups are going to good homes and are returned to them if the home doesnt work out for them.
I don't believe the government should have more control. At all. If they want to put a stop to the puppymills, go in and shut them down. Why can't they do that? Because of all of the other rules that the government has put into place that protect criminals.
If I want to breed my dog, I am going to breed my dog. People don't need a license to have children, and we have an overcrowded fostercare system. People don't need to be fingerprinted to breed (thank God). If this bill goes into effect, it will be a foot in the door to getting to that point.
Pretty soon our "free" country will not be anymore if things continue down this path.

sandybobb · 09-05-2008, 06:11 PM

I wouldn't mind paying a fee for a license or being fingerprinted. I have nothing to hide. BUT i do agree that this is poor legislation as it would allow dishonest breeders to work the system; and possibly limit the number of licenses in the state - and who is going to approve/deny applications and on what basis. Way too much power to a state gov agency. I am sorry to say that I am cynical when it comes to bureaucracy ...... somone would get preferential treatment and it sure wouldn't be the small hobby breeder!
I have emailed my request to vote this down.

sweetsophia · 09-05-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindieRose

Putting this bill in place would be like taking away a persons right to own a gun (well on a totally different level, but bare with me here...). Point being that even if people were not allowed to own guns, the "bad guys" will always find a way to get them. The only people it would hurt are those that obey the laws, since they would be left with nothing to defend themselves.
How does this compare? Well this will not even touch the puppy mill situation IMO. They will continue to exsist and thrive, and maybe do better since many of the small scale reputable breeders will be out of business.
I will always stand by my belief that over crowding and overpopulation in shelters is not because of the breeder that doesnt breed the perfect dog, or mixes breeds. It is the breeder that will let anyone come and take a dog and never screen or do everything they can to ensure their pups are going to good homes and are returned to them if the home doesnt work out for them.
I don't believe the government should have more control. At all. If they want to put a stop to the puppymills, go in and shut them down. Why can't they do that? Because of all of the other rules that the government has put into place that protect criminals.
If I want to breed my dog, I am going to breed my dog. People don't need a license to have children, and we have an overcrowded fostercare system. People don't need to be fingerprinted to breed (thank God). If this bill goes into effect, it will be a foot in the door to getting to that point.
Pretty soon our "free" country will not be anymore if things continue down this path.

I totally agree! It will not stop here. If they want to stop the puppymills then go in and stop them. I have reported several myself and they are still there!

C C Kent · 09-05-2008, 07:25 PM

No law has any value past the point where it can be enforced. Otherwise only the law abiding citizen is following it....the criminal will continue as though it was never written.

We must at some point admit that much of the public does not care about puppy mills, BYB's, mistreatment of animals they don't have to see. It is as far removed from them as an asian sweatshop with children working for pennies making $200 shoes. Does it stop them from buying the shoes? The problem is not a lack of laws...it is a lack of ethics and responsibility. No way to legislate that.

I would like to see a requirement for pet shops to disclose the name of the breeder where each puppy comes from and how many hands it passed through before it landed in the store. Kind of like the requirement in restaurants to show the calorie content in the food. The USDA paperwork requires all of this information, it would be very easy and cost effective to just post the info. Then let the buyer beware. At least this way if someone is considering a puppy and the listed breeder is exposed as a puppy mill, they have the ability to put the two together and not buy the puppy.

Wrenee4 · 09-06-2008, 06:53 AM

[QUOTE]No law has any value past the point where it can be enforced. Otherwise only the law abiding citizen is following it....the criminal will continue as though it was never written. QUOTE]

This is the point exactly!!! I love the way you say this. A bill such as this will not hurt the greeders! It will only hurt the breeders that are trying to follow the rules and will get turned down for no reason at all! I think it is scary that they are trying to take away more of our rights every day. This bill needs to be turned DOWN!

jeanief · 09-06-2008, 08:15 AM

I couldn't find the actual bill. Just thoughts about the bill of what it would do. a opinion is that if you owned a cat in your home, you would not be able to have any breeding dogs in the home. Or any pups with moms in the home with any other dogs. If this is true ( again, couldn't find the actual bill with all the rules about housing) thats just plain stupid. I don't see that a breeder with 3-4 dogs in the house and a cat should have to build a kennel to keep them in like the USDA breeders do. It is upsetting that it always seems bill go more toward small hobby or show breeders with restrictions. BUT THE HUGE USDA kennels or large kennels can have 200 dogs as long as they have a 2 x 4 run, even though they don't get any love or attention, or get to run in the grass like normal dogs. The big problem to me is the AMOUNT of dogs. If a person couldn't own a large amount of dogs we wouldn't have mills because it wouldn't bring in the big $$. Like I have said a million times before. Dogs are not cattle, and just because they have a small run to live in thats clean, does not make for a healthy, happy dog. I supposed it's against our rights not to be able to own 200 dogs and to sell to pet stores , but I think thats WRONG!! All these bills for animals rights, and the huge mills are still alive and doing well. THATS A PROBLEM!! Why worry about 3 breeding dogs living with a cat in a home ? I mean come on now....

tjdmom · 09-06-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

My question is this: Who is going to fund these cost effective programs for education and lower costs s/n programs? And who would they benefit? Do you think that the people type of breeders/owners who are the root of the problem would participate willingly? Probably not. Unless it is made into an enforceable law, no one would comply.

Probably from the same place that enforcing will cost if this bill gets passed. The taxpayers! But I'm thinking that offering some benefits to vets to do spay/neuter for a reduced costs might cost less than hiring a whole staff of people that will need to do all the paperwork and everything else envolved with enforcing this would probably cost a whole lot more.

BamaFan121s · 09-06-2008, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjdmom

Probably from the same place that enforcing will cost if this bill gets passed. The taxpayers!

I would think if it was passed the funding would come from the $200 license fees....

09-05-2008, 06:10 PM	#16
MindieRose Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,280	Putting this bill in place would be like taking away a persons right to own a gun (well on a totally different level, but bare with me here...). Point being that even if people were not allowed to own guns, the "bad guys" will always find a way to get them. The only people it would hurt are those that obey the laws, since they would be left with nothing to defend themselves. How does this compare? Well this will not even touch the puppy mill situation IMO. They will continue to exsist and thrive, and maybe do better since many of the small scale reputable breeders will be out of business. I will always stand by my belief that over crowding and overpopulation in shelters is not because of the breeder that doesnt breed the perfect dog, or mixes breeds. It is the breeder that will let anyone come and take a dog and never screen or do everything they can to ensure their pups are going to good homes and are returned to them if the home doesnt work out for them. I don't believe the government should have more control. At all. If they want to put a stop to the puppymills, go in and shut them down. Why can't they do that? Because of all of the other rules that the government has put into place that protect criminals. If I want to breed my dog, I am going to breed my dog. People don't need a license to have children, and we have an overcrowded fostercare system. People don't need to be fingerprinted to breed (thank God). If this bill goes into effect, it will be a foot in the door to getting to that point. Pretty soon our "free" country will not be anymore if things continue down this path. __________________ Proud Mommy of Gavin, Ethan, Morgan, Nia, Olivia, and Kiana and baby #7! Also Mommy to furkids: Cleo ,Lola, Lilly Appletini, and Diesel. and Sunny, Ethan's Golden therapy dog in training.

09-05-2008, 07:25 PM	#19
C C Kent YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Missouri Ozarks Posts: 452	No law has any value past the point where it can be enforced. Otherwise only the law abiding citizen is following it....the criminal will continue as though it was never written. We must at some point admit that much of the public does not care about puppy mills, BYB's, mistreatment of animals they don't have to see. It is as far removed from them as an asian sweatshop with children working for pennies making $200 shoes. Does it stop them from buying the shoes? The problem is not a lack of laws...it is a lack of ethics and responsibility. No way to legislate that. I would like to see a requirement for pet shops to disclose the name of the breeder where each puppy comes from and how many hands it passed through before it landed in the store. Kind of like the requirement in restaurants to show the calorie content in the food. The USDA paperwork requires all of this information, it would be very easy and cost effective to just post the info. Then let the buyer beware. At least this way if someone is considering a puppy and the listed breeder is exposed as a puppy mill, they have the ability to put the two together and not buy the puppy. __________________ Paris Sophie Bogus Maximus Chezzer Macy Gissimo Last edited by C C Kent; 09-05-2008 at 07:27 PM.

09-06-2008, 06:53 AM	#20
Wrenee4 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,048	[QUOTE]No law has any value past the point where it can be enforced. Otherwise only the law abiding citizen is following it....the criminal will continue as though it was never written. QUOTE] This is the point exactly!!! I love the way you say this. A bill such as this will not hurt the greeders! It will only hurt the breeders that are trying to follow the rules and will get turned down for no reason at all! I think it is scary that they are trying to take away more of our rights every day. This bill needs to be turned DOWN! __________________ ~Wendy~

09-05-2008, 06:11 PM	#17
sandybobb Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 170	I wouldn't mind paying a fee for a license or being fingerprinted. I have nothing to hide. BUT i do agree that this is poor legislation as it would allow dishonest breeders to work the system; and possibly limit the number of licenses in the state - and who is going to approve/deny applications and on what basis. Way too much power to a state gov agency. I am sorry to say that I am cynical when it comes to bureaucracy ...... somone would get preferential treatment and it sure wouldn't be the small hobby breeder! I have emailed my request to vote this down.

09-06-2008, 08:15 AM	#21
jeanief YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 307	I couldn't find the actual bill. Just thoughts about the bill of what it would do. a opinion is that if you owned a cat in your home, you would not be able to have any breeding dogs in the home. Or any pups with moms in the home with any other dogs. If this is true ( again, couldn't find the actual bill with all the rules about housing) thats just plain stupid. I don't see that a breeder with 3-4 dogs in the house and a cat should have to build a kennel to keep them in like the USDA breeders do. It is upsetting that it always seems bill go more toward small hobby or show breeders with restrictions. BUT THE HUGE USDA kennels or large kennels can have 200 dogs as long as they have a 2 x 4 run, even though they don't get any love or attention, or get to run in the grass like normal dogs. The big problem to me is the AMOUNT of dogs. If a person couldn't own a large amount of dogs we wouldn't have mills because it wouldn't bring in the big $$. Like I have said a million times before. Dogs are not cattle, and just because they have a small run to live in thats clean, does not make for a healthy, happy dog. I supposed it's against our rights not to be able to own 200 dogs and to sell to pet stores , but I think thats WRONG!! All these bills for animals rights, and the huge mills are still alive and doing well. THATS A PROBLEM!! Why worry about 3 breeding dogs living with a cat in a home ? I mean come on now....