Pippin is in Labor!!! Advice Needed!!
 

Pippin has been in labor having contractions and has a water bubble for about the last two hours. She has been actively pushing off and on for the last hour. Still no puppy. The bubble is big and dangling down. How long should I wait before calling the vet about a C section?

Anyone out there???

Sorry I have no clue because I'm not a breeder, but I will bump this for you

Oh no, let me see who I can find for you. Brb!

Bump!

We're praying for you, Pippin and the babies. I wish I knew more and could help.

I see several on line that could possibly help, hopefully one will have an answer soon!

You may have to help deliver the baby. It is not good to just let the sac come part way out and go back in. If it happens again you may want to help her deliver. If you are not comfortable helping you need to get to the vet.

Is this her first litter?
Does she seem tired?
Did you have xrays to see how many puppies?

All this comes into play, if it is the first litter helping with the first one is normally all you need and they come on their own after that.

How are things going? I would not let her push for more than a hour without producing a puppy. That is the guidline I was taught although everyone has different opinions

Each puppy is in its own sac so that is what you are seeing.

yorkierose
 

whelping

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is so easy to be a Monday morning quarterback...

SOMETIMES..the sac stays intact, comes out and the dam or breeder tears it open, PERFECT all is well!!!!!! SOMETIMES the dam rips the sac open as she is whelping...puppy still inside dam..and there is no way to stop a dam unless you duct tape her mouth shut...I do not panic if the dam chooses to open the sac, head first puppy is ususally out fairly fast...if it is feet first, you must take a dry cloth and gently pull out the puppy...as long as the placenta is attached, the pups are fairly safe, once the placenta tears away, the puppy needs to be out of the mom asap...
BUT if you see dry feet sticking out...unless your vet lives in your basement, you do not have time to go to them..you must deliver the pup asap...

I had a recent email from a first time breeder asking me how long the puppies head could safely remain in the mom..sac was torn off and placenta was already out...it has been out for 20 mins...which was about 19 mins too long...in that case a live pup would have resulted with a gently pull...that was the breeders fault and the pup died.

In your case...you had the bad luck of a small bitch and one large puppy, backwards and dry.....even that gives me sweat beads..I know things can and mostly will be tough.

PS....everyone knows there is a "water bubble" that comes first..THEN the actualy sac the puppy is in? Breaking a water bubble is not like breaking the sac with umbical cord attached to it... RIGHT....bitches break water bubbles all the time...
__________________
Pat, Kate and Emee
Prim

What I've read says the same.....after an hour of hard contractions and no puppy, see the vet. You could try doing traction on her belly timed with a contraction. What you do is firmly stroke downward (toward the rear legs) as she has a contraction to help her deliver. If that doesn't work, the vet is likely your next option.

Birth of Puppies: What to Look For veterinary medicine advice info from pet veterinarian


This is from Dr. Larry a vet on the web:
What To Look For During the Birth of Puppies

OK, the puppies are now coming. What do you watch for? When do I think there is trouble? Should we call the veterinarian? Take them to the emergency center (since it invariably is 2am.)? Here are some tips:

1) If you see a brown, black or green discharge from the vaginal area BEFORE any puppies have come out, call the veterinarian. Once even the first puppy has been born, you can ignore the discharge. You will often see these dark liquids after and between puppies.

2) If the mom is straining with labor, actually pushing with no puppies coming out, for a period of one hour with no success, call your veterinarian. If she strains a little, then rests for an hour, then strains a little more with no success, this doesn't count. If you see her actively trying for an hour without success, then call the veterinarian.

3) There are no rules for how much time there is in between puppies. I have seen bitches have puppies every ten minutes and some have them one every 24 hours. Each dog's pattern will be different. If you do not see her straining as noted in number 2, don't worry about the time between the puppies.

Hopefully, the mother will do the rest. The puppies do come out in a sac, but the bitch will remove them, eat the sac and chew off the umbilical cord. The puppies will all find their way to the mom's nipples. Don't worry about puppies wandering around the whelping box. They will find their way.

It is difficult to list and describe every possible complication that can occur. Most of the times, things go perfectly fine (especially if we humans don't mess things up). And if you follow the tips above and have one of the 99% of the dog breeds that have no complications, you will do just fine.

One last bit of advice. It is very important for the mom and the puppies to be seen by your veterinarian within 48 hours of whelping. This allows the veterinarian to be sure all the puppies are ok and we often will give the bitch an injection of oxytocin which will stimulate any other uterine material that is left to be pushed out.

Dr. Larry

I see she's off-line. Hope everything's alright

Update
 

Well, this is what happened. She still didn't deliver and stopped pushing for about an hour, still some contractions, but not as strong or as often. So we called the vet and took her in for a C-section. Her bubble was still intact but no puppy could be felt in the birth canal.

The section went fine with no complications and we have two healthy puppies a boy and a girl both weighed 4.8 oz. We got home about 4:20 am. Since our regular vet didn't call back after about a half an hour we called another vet and headed to the next town about 27 miles away. Of course when we were half way there the first vet calls (one hour after we called her answering service). Oh well...

But I really would like to know what to do next time (not with this girl, this is her 2nd and last litter). But I do have another girl due on Tuesday.

Tonight Pippin had a bubble about 10 oclock, and contractions, but not really pushing. About 11 o'clock she started pushing and pushed pretty good for about an hour. More and more bubble came out. It looked like a triple decker ice cream cone. But there was still no puppy felt or seen. About 12 o'clock she pretty much stopped pushing, still some contractions, but not as many and no pushing. By one o'clock we called the vet and headed to the next town.

My question is this, could we have waited longer? How long can the pup be there with just a bubble out? Was this just a rest between and she may have started up again and delivered on her own? Of course we will never know for sure, but this time was almost identical to last time she whelped and both ended up C sections, so I am wondering if what we did was more prudent or did we mess up by getting too anxious? Any opinions and/or experiences welcome, as long as they are stated nicely :D.

Thanks so much for all your good thoughts and prayers. I really appreciate them.

Picture of the weird bubble.
Attachment 229947

Little girl.
Attachment 229948

I don't have a good picture of the boy, so I will post some later on.

Good night! (or should I say morning?)

whelping
 

The weird bubble is actually more then one sac....she was pushing out water sac's and no puppies...Ideally, there is a sac and a puppy, a sac and a puppy...when you get two/three etc sacs and no puppies, then you need the vet.

You want a puppy after about 1 to 2 hrs of strong contractions...time depends on other factors, how many pups, size of pups, (one or two large pups will take longer then 3 or 4 smallers as a rule) first whelping, contraction strength, size of bitch etc...

You did right to seek out the vet and have a section..best wishes

I am so glad to see this. :) How are Pippin and the pups doing this morning? What a cutie in the second photo. :p

That first photo just scared the begesus out of me! :eek:

Wow just signed on and seen your thread. I'm glad all went well with the C-section and puppies. I imagine how worried you must have felt seeing those sacs and no puppies. Congrats on the 2 puppies. I would have loved for at least 2 of our puppies to survive but we only have one survive and he is looking at a life of being spoiled rotten :)

Post pics of the momma and babies as soon as you get some rest!


Genie,Cookie,Lola,Angel & Lucky

Thank you so much!! That makes sense. So you think both pups from both horns were trying to come out at the same time?

Here are pictures of the bubble in the order they appeared. First was the dark bubble, then it came out more and the top of it was white, but the same sac.
Attachment 229966Attachment 229967

Then the next dark one could possibly be the second puppy's sac??
Attachment 229968

There was some brown stuff that came out, too. Any idea what this is??
Attachment 229969

They are doing well this morning. Pippin is a good little mommy.

I just took Mazey's temp and it is continuing it's downward trend. I guess I had better get in the shower quick in case I need to go somewhere. I was hoping to go back to bed, but she's in the 2nd whelping box digging right now:eek:!! She has an appointment at the vet for x-rays at 4:15 this afternoon. We'll see if she makes it.

Thanks! Yes, it was quite disconcerting. I feel very blessed that we were able to save all the puppies. We had to work on the 2nd one (the girl) for quite a while before she came around, though. It was scary for awhile, but she's very mobile and vocal still this morning.

Yes, your little boy will certainly be spoiled!

Oh, I forgot to mention the vet who did the C-section just graduated from vet school two months ago and this was his very first C-section!!! :eek: Please pray she doesn't have any complications.

JMO....but there could have possibly been a tear in one of the sacs inside and possibly one of the pups could have had a bowel movement...i know that happens with humans sometimes....so couldnt it happen with puppies too?????????

Oh - I'm so glad everything is okay. I was so worried for you last night and am thrilled to see everyone is doing well this morning!

just graduated.....that's great.....he is more up-to-date.....good to hear...and got a notch on his belt right out of the chute so to speak....

You did the exact right thing by the section. What is in the first photos is 2 separate birth sacs, which means two puppies trying to exit at one time. Doesn't work. During my first whelping, I had the same presentation and called the ER vet, who told me not to worry about it. I did worry about it, but stayed home per her instructions. The first puppy made it out alive and well after a lot of work but the other was dead and could not be revived. He had one heck of a trip-- by the time he was born he had no sac and had basically suffocated. Other puppies were delivered normally after that. I will never again ignore my gut instinct, never. I have not had this presentation again, but if I did it would be an immediate trip to the vet.

Good job and good luck with new babies!

Can this sacs be gently pulled?

I would not pull on the water bubble, it is fluid filled not puppy filled and will break. Many times it will do that on its own but I don't want to be the cause of it. Now a sac filled with a puppy is different, once I can get a decent grip on a puppy, esp. one that is coming rear feet first, I will pull on the puppy in conjunction with the contractions. But these are two different things, one has fluid, the other a puppy.