The Great Debate..."Breeder" or "Backyard Breeder"

[erino77]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

Instead of opening this thread and opening up old wounds, why don't you use the search feature? There is a lot of very valuable info there and several other threads about this.

[Rae Rae]

Do you want to get into breeding? Or do you just want to breed her one time? If you don't want to really get into breeding, I would suggest spaying her and not breeding her at all, there are sooo many risks involved (just do a search on here), and if she's just a pet it wouldn't be fair for her or you to breed her. I am a pet owner, and I wouldn't want to breed my babies because they are my pets, and I wouldn't want to put them through any risks, or be stuck raising puppies that I don't know how to raise. Whatever your decision is though, just make sure you do a lot of research, there's so much more to breeding then the obvious. Good luck in your decision!

One more thing, with your pet overpopulation question, I think the breeders say that to mainly a lot of people who just want puppies, or their friends want a dog like theirs, etc. I don't think they ever meant that their puppies are more desirable then anothers. This is just my guess though, like I said I'm not a breeder, so maybe a breeder can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tammyh]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

What I don't understand is why anyone would want to breed their pet? If you purchase a pet quality yorkie it is (I assume) for companionship. Why would you put your companion at risk when they are not capable of producing the kind of quality puppy that would make it worth the risk? When I decided to go beyond being a pet owner and become a breeder I started a year of intensive research. After attending shows and studying conformation I decided on my type and got an imagine in my mind of what I wanted to produce. From there I looked at different kennels until I found one that I liked and I purchased a dog for breeding and for showing. That person became my breeder and first mentor. Since then I have purchased brood bitches with associations to that line that would be a good match for Connor. The dogs are health screened, I know their line, and I have a goal in mind. I not only study to learn to develop an eye but lean on the knowledge of judges and experienced breeders/exhibitors. I do not believe in breeding pet quality dogs and bitches or breeding blindly, too much heartache has come as a result of that route. My dogs have become my pets but I am not a pet owner, I am a breeder/exhibitor. I breed for quality, health, and temperment and not for the fun of it or for money.

You make a great point. I (being your "average Joe" petowner) never thought about the purpose for breeding which is to maintain the breed standard. I bought my Bella as my companion, my baby. I'm not educated enough in this breed to know if she's "good enough" to be used to breed but I don't intend to breed her now so it doesn't matter. But the question should be asked, if you are considering breeding your pet/companion, does he/she meet the standard or is he/she "pet quality"? Obviously there are other things to consider but this particular one is one that I had never thought about. You see this beautiful furbaby who's perfect in your mind BUT is she/he really up to par for the purpose of breeding? I've learned so much on this site!

[TyraandMrJ]

Is anyone who breeds out of standard and I mean way out there, any one who uses the words teacup. period I dona even care if it's a darn mouse. Anyone who has females and breeds them every bloody heat. Anyone who breeds anything unless it's like the very very last of a certain line without a ton of research,sweet and love,and a good vet report stating yes she's healthy enough, over the age of 6. {general consenses is that is the cut off age} Anyone who can't even tell you when the last time they touched,loved on or even looked at their puppies or their dogs. Anyone who keeps their dogs or puppies in cages. { I don't mean crate training either}

[topknot]

Originally Posted by Tammyh

You make a great point. I (being your "average Joe" petowner) never thought about the purpose for breeding which is to maintain the breed standard. I bought my Bella as my companion, my baby. I'm not educated enough in this breed to know if she's "good enough" to be used to breed but I don't intend to breed her now so it doesn't matter. But the question should be asked, if you are considering breeding your pet/companion, does he/she meet the standard or is he/she "pet quality"? Obviously there are other things to consider but this particular one is one that I had never thought about. You see this beautiful furbaby who's perfect in your mind BUT is she/he really up to par for the purpose of breeding? I've learned so much on this site!

JMO -
Great question! Some people consider them hobby breeders and not back yard breeders if they take care of their dogs. But what if they are breeding sub-standard quality? I too think that when someone breeds their own dog/s - the dogs need to be of good quality and as close as possible to the standard. That does not mean you have to show, but at least get them evaluated to see if they are worth breeding!
One person said, "Well, if I have homes for them what should it matter?" It does matter if those people breed the pups (when old enough) and they are not of good quality. All it does is pull the quality of our breed down.

Cost - wow! It can be very expensive! I have a litter of two pups, included is stud fee, travel to another state for the breeeding and returning to pick up my bitch. Of course testing before breeding. C-section, vet visit for mom after the c-section (later that week due to an infection), pups dew claw removal and tail docking, add in 4 week check up, 7 week check up and now 10 week check up - each check up is about 60 - 70.00 each time and I have one more to go. Not to mention litter paper fee, no sleep the first 7 days, etc... And I almost lost my bitch to the infection. Oh yea, add two more vet visits - Knight eat poop and was throwing up so took him to the vet and Trey got sick (vet forgot to worm him). So it does add up. You do not make any money on pups!!

All this is just my experience and my opinion.
T.

[SladesMommy]

I think this link pretty well covers BYB vs Responsible Breeder.
Lawrence County Humane Society Abuse and Adoption Center

[topknot]

Originally Posted by SladesMommy

I think this link pretty well covers BYB vs Responsible Breeder.
Lawrence County Humane Society Abuse and Adoption Center

This is the site I was looking for - Perfect! I love the definitions and comparison.
T.

[Marc]

Yikes....I left for a funeral and there is a ton of post I need to answer...I tonight..I am getting company.

One thought before I forget.....the "breeders" aren't saying how their breeding isn't populating the dogs in this world....they are just commenting on them doing it the "right way" and then it's all good. I'd like to hear more on that.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

ok that depends on each litter if you liver profile or not have puppies vet checked tail's docked dew claw's shot's a quality food puppy pad's milk supplement if needed benbac subque fluids if needed i can go on and on i usually have mine vet checked at least twice and liver profling is about 65 per puppy i have at least 600 to 800 in a litter before they ever leave my home not including a c-section if it is required

So if a breeders pup has 3 pups at 1500 bucks a pup...that is 7500 dollars. The cost of the entire litter is say 800 bucks if no c-section is required. I'd say that the breeder is making a huge profit, no? What does it matter then if joe-blow makes a few bucks?

Again, I am playing the other side here...I'm not huffy, lol. Just throwing out the questions.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I am not a breeder but I am a Yorkie owner.

There are certain things I look for in a "breeder".
The way I look at it is this.
There are good breeders and there are not good breeders (mills, backyard...).
"Breeders" are the ones who will do health screening on their dogs, sell them at the right time, not breed more than two or three kinds of dogs, have sanitary living conditions for the animals (and I prefer this is in the breeder's house, not a kennel), provide at least a one year health guarantee, reserve the right of first refusal if the pup needs to be rehomed... The part that does get fuzzy with even good breeders is how much testing should be done. I prefer that the pup is more expensive and more tests are run on the parents then selling a cheap Yorkie who has a bigger chance of being diseased.

As long as you are doing your research and planning to health screen and put the money into it AND your dogs are standard with healthy lines, I don't think there is any reason someone should tell you not to breed. After all, if you reserve the right of first refusal your pups will never contribute to the number of homeless pets. They will always have a home with you if they need one.

Puppy mills and backyard breeders are the opposite of what I'd call a breeder.
The dogs live in unsanitary conditions.
They aren't health screened.
The pups are sold way too young.
You can take the pup to the pound if you get tired of it.
They don't care about bettering the breed.

That is my two cents.

Very good post.

And yet when I was looking for a Yorkie...I drove down to the only breeder in my province that I could find. I was very dissapointed because there was just too many there and I couldn't see how someone could love and care properly for them all. Turned me off and made me think this particular breeder was only in it for the cash. So, I looked elsewhere. Ended up MORE happy with the lady who breed her pet that she loves dearly and the pups were well taken care of and so was mom.

Saying the "backyard breeder" doesn't care about better breeding is, in my opinion, a very unfair thing to say. I love my one yorkie just as much as a breeder loves her 10 yorkies and care greatly about who she would be bred with and the health of each one of them.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

What I don't understand is why anyone would want to breed their pet? If you purchase a pet quality yorkie it is (I assume) for companionship. Why would you put your companion at risk when they are not capable of producing the kind of quality puppy that would make it worth the risk? When I decided to go beyond being a pet owner and become a breeder I started a year of intensive research. After attending shows and studying conformation I decided on my type and got an imagine in my mind of what I wanted to produce. From there I looked at different kennels until I found one that I liked and I purchased a dog for breeding and for showing. That person became my breeder and first mentor. Since then I have purchased brood bitches with associations to that line that would be a good match for Connor. The dogs are health screened, I know their line, and I have a goal in mind. I not only study to learn to develop an eye but lean on the knowledge of judges and experienced breeders/exhibitors. I do not believe in breeding pet quality dogs and bitches or breeding blindly, too much heartache has come as a result of that route. My dogs have become my pets but I am not a pet owner, I am a breeder/exhibitor. I breed for quality, health, and temperment and not for the fun of it or for money.

This is the thing. I have read numerous threads here where a newbie (in terms of breeding) posts a thread with a question and they were jumped on. Yet, that is no different then when any breeder first started out. Why is that? Cause someone asks the question the breeders assume that is it an irresponsible person for wanting to breed? Yet that is exactly how you all started...with asking questions. Makes no sense to me. Why not lay down the risks and costs and offer help when needed instead of jumping on them?

Also, why is the breeders views on people who want their pet to have a litter or two as producing unwanted pets...when the breeder produces far more than just one or two litters?

Again, I'm not huffy...just asking. Oh lord...I really can't stress that I am just debating this and am not at my computer mad, lol.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

Instead of opening this thread and opening up old wounds, why don't you use the search feature? There is a lot of very valuable info there and several other threads about this.

I didn't realize I was opening up wounds. I stated from the get-go that I was posting for learning and debate only. The search feature would bring me to the newbies who asked a question about breeding their dog and the ugliness to follow. I am debating this as not a breeder or a backyard breeder. If a moderator feels this is a duplicate of a different thread then they can delete this and point me in the right direction. I just didn't want to post in a thread started by someone who wanted advice on breeding and got shot down is all. I just wanted to take all sides and hopefully everyone learns a bit from everyone. That can happen if we are all adults and listen, no?

[Marc]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Who wants the experience...you or your female? Dogs aren't like people...they don't pine for puppies.

If you mean yourself...I will say to do it correctly (and others have posted how it should be done)...it can be expensive just for the experience. Expensive and heartbreaking if something should happen to your female.

So the breeders don't care whether their dogs want it or not? Do they love their females less? Cause they put them at risk everytime the heat comes and they breed. no?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Marc

Yikes....I left for a funeral and there is a ton of post I need to answer...I tonight..I am getting company.

One thought before I forget.....the "breeders" aren't saying how their breeding isn't populating the dogs in this world....they are just commenting on them doing it the "right way" and then it's all good. I'd like to hear more on that.

Ok, I will hen peck this with my left hand.LOL I dint feel that the exhibitor breeders are making a big dent towards the over-pet populatn. Most only have 1 or 2 litters per year and are breeding for themselves for the show ring. Yorkies only have very small litters so if both pups turn out, then they will not be sold s pets, but will bwe shown. Most exhibitor breeders have a waiting list of people who want puppies or retired champions/breeders. Any puppy that is sold as a pet will go on limited,spay/neuter contracts as the puppy is just that, a pet. so it isnt populating the pet world as these puppies are already spoken for and cant be bred by byb'rs or mills or irresponsible breeders just interested in making a buck.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Rae Rae

Do you want to get into breeding? Or do you just want to breed her one time? If you don't want to really get into breeding, I would suggest spaying her and not breeding her at all, there are sooo many risks involved (just do a search on here), and if she's just a pet it wouldn't be fair for her or you to breed her. I am a pet owner, and I wouldn't want to breed my babies because they are my pets, and I wouldn't want to put them through any risks, or be stuck raising puppies that I don't know how to raise. Whatever your decision is though, just make sure you do a lot of research, there's so much more to breeding then the obvious. Good luck in your decision!

One more thing, with your pet overpopulation question, I think the breeders say that to mainly a lot of people who just want puppies, or their friends want a dog like theirs, etc. I don't think they ever meant that their puppies are more desirable then anothers. This is just my guess though, like I said I'm not a breeder, so maybe a breeder can correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, I have no clue if I will ever breed my girl. We may at some point if we feel we are capable and know enough. We'd sure like to have a litter though. We shall see.