Originally Posted by T Doll (Post 2001983)

I've been trying to avoid posting in this thread, but the more I read it, the more I feel I should throw in my 2 cents. It appears that you're always claiming to want to learn "both" sides and that this thread is strictly for learning purposes. However, as I read your posts, it just seems like no matter how many knowledgeable breeders and owners give you their opinions and important facts to consider, you seem to question everything they say and try to defend your own position. Although I commend you for wanting to do your research and not just going ahead and breeding your girl without trying to get some important information, it also doesn't seem like you're taking in all this useful information that everyone has offered. You just counter back at them and try to justify breeding your girl....that's the thing that really bugs me :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2002165)

You are right and jmho, I think the thread was started to stir trouble. if he had truly wanted advice he could have done a search. It is all there in the search engines on here. he can learn all he needs to now about BYB, reg. Breeders and yes, even coats. Some of the most knowledagle breeders and show people have offered advice on this thread only to have it thrown back in their face. This OP is going to do what he is going to do and the rest of us should just stop posting to it.

Originally Posted by feminvstr (Post 2002253)

I too have avoided this thread, but.....in all do respect to every member here!

The breeders section is just that, all about "breeding this daunting breed"
A dedicated breeder understands and adheres to the breed standard, one who knows that pedigrees are more than a pretty piece of paper and that responsible breeding is far more complicated, costly, consuming than breeding two beloved house pets for litter of pretty puppies. With this in mind the breeders section is the most passionate controversal area in YT, simply put don't ask questions in this section if youre not seeking honest opinions.

There are many seasoned breeders that give their time helping others understand the breed standard, the responsiblities and costs involved in breeding, finally assisting those who know nothing about breeding yet they have a pregant bitch due to whelp!

If youre not seeking an honest answer then this area is not the area to post to, if you want to be petted or patted on the head there are plenty of sections on YT celebrating their passion for their pets.

Finally when someone is asking if they should breed their dog or not, they get what they ask for...answers and opinions...then like any mature adult one should ponder the advice and ultimately make their now informed decision.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2002339)

Oh it's an education alright...

Originally Posted by KYBLUE (Post 2002340)

im done moving on

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002373)

Do you think it would matter to me in terms of adding to the pet population that booth "A" came from a breeder and booth "B" came from a owner? QUOTE]

If you were a RESPONSIBLE PET OWNER, then yes... it would matter...

You're right, you might not be able to tell the differences on sight, but start asking those behind the "booths" a few questions and the quality of the pups will become instantaniously apparent.

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002373)

Ok, I'm going to throw out another scenario and see if it helps in terms of the topic of a breeders "pet quality" and an owners "pet quality litter.


If I am walking along and come across 2 booths set up. There is no advertising other than that both booths are selling Yorkies....I can't tell that one is a "breeder" of Yorkies and that the other is a owner who bred to Yorkies...pups all look the same. Do you think it would matter to me in terms of adding to the pet population that booth "A" came from a breeder and booth "B" came from a owner? Either booth has pet quality pups that now in this world and need a good home. No?

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002310)

I'm rather glad you posted this.....because that is exactly my intention with this thread. I will play the other side like I stated earlier....so breeders can hear owner side and owners can hear breeders side and both can learn....and it can be done nicely. So, yuppers...I am coming across that way with intention. I am taking that "tons of useful info" and countering it for a reason....that's what this thread is about.:)

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2002383)

Do you have any specific questions? It just seems like the same thing over and over. What do you want to know that has not already been said.

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2002405)

Here again it comes down to quality. Say you were going to buy a car and you go to a car lot. You might see many cars of the same make and model but the features on all might be different. One car might not have near the features that the other one has and it will be cheaper, they might drive the same but one might cost thousands more because of the added features. As for yorkies, add proper silky coat, health screening, proper conformation, proper socialization, etc. and you have a more expensive pet that one that does not have these things.

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002373)

Ok, I'm going to throw out another scenario and see if it helps in terms of the topic of a breeders "pet quality" and an owners "pet quality litter.


If I am walking along and come across 2 booths set up. There is no advertising other than that both booths are selling Yorkies....I can't tell that one is a "breeder" of Yorkies and that the other is a owner who bred to Yorkies...pups all look the same. Do you think it would matter to me in terms of adding to the pet population that booth "A" came from a breeder and booth "B" came from a owner? Either booth has pet quality pups that now in this world and need a good home. No?

Originally Posted by T Doll (Post 2002406)

Ok, so now that you have done what you intended to do with this thread, why keep continuing the with the rebuttals? People have given you their thoughts, and you have countered and kept bringing up the same points and questions over and over. What are you hoping to accomplish with it? You've asked your questions and you've received your answers. Now, take them into serious consideration instead of pretending that you're doing YT any justice with this little "non-heated" thread.

Originally Posted by Mom2BabyNatalie (Post 2002390)

If I asked the questions and got the breeders response on how she goes about her practices...and then talked to the owner who has the same vet checks for her pups then it wouldn't matter to me at all. If both litters are healthy and both pure Yorkies....then both litters of "pets" are contributing to the population.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2002421)

In your hypothetical scenario, it should matter to you. A 'breeder' as opposed to an 'owner with pups' should know more about the health and quality of the pups. This 'should' give you more confidence but there are 'knowledgeable' breeders that just don't care so you're back at square one. The Yorkie world is full of contradictions and every buyer should be as informed as possible prior to shopping for one. Pedigree, show or pet quality or any other determining factor all fall to the wayside if you purchase an unhealthy puppy. Price alone is no factor as some unethical breeders will jack up the price of their pups to make you think you're getting a 'quality' pup. Also, some will tell you what they think you want to hear in order to 'make a sale'. There are many members here who, though they love their babies to death, have bought a pup that was completely mis-represented to them. As in all things, buyer beware. :aimeeyork :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002403)

I dont see how a responsible ethical breeder is adding to the pet populatuion as most pet quality pups are already spoken for and would not be in a booth. They are sometimes already spayed/neutered and are on contracts forS/N/AKClimited and are not for breeding purposes. Most of these breedes give a kifetime guarantee and will take the pup back if for some reason the owners cant keep it. The pet breeder usually has no contract, does not want the puppy back and does not have breeding restrictions. This IS contributing to the pet population as most buyers will want to breed the dog, reasons being, to re-coup the original price, show the children the "miricle of birth", or just to make a few $$$$. those are some of my thoughts.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2002431)

The minute a litter of ANY pups are born they are contributing to the dog population when there are shelters full of unwanted pups. That can't really be argued. When 5 pups are born....that's 5 more the world has in it.

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002437)

The shelters are not full of well bred great quality Yorkies. Are you saying that the population should only have a choice to get a dog from a shelter?
so, why, exactly, do you have a Yorkie instead of just adopting form the pound????There is always a demand for a great quality Yorkie, and not just for breeding. People should not be required to go to a shelter to adopt some elses problem, mistake or un-educated endeavor.

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002373)

Ok, I'm going to throw out another scenario and see if it helps in terms of the topic of a breeders "pet quality" and an owners "pet quality litter.


If I am walking along and come across 2 booths set up. There is no advertising other than that both booths are selling Yorkies....I can't tell that one is a "breeder" of Yorkies and that the other is a owner who bred to Yorkies...pups all look the same. Do you think it would matter to me in terms of adding to the pet population that booth "A" came from a breeder and booth "B" came from a owner? Either booth has pet quality pups that now in this world and need a good home. No?

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002423)

I'm not pretending nothing. I started the thread. People like it or they don't but there is no gun to yours or anyone else's head that makes them post in here. This is supposed to be civil.

I disagree. There is much more to talk about from both sides and much more to learn. I don't think it's even started really....not till breeders actually "hear" the other side and see where they are coming from....and vise versa.

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002433)

I have to say that I think the notion that Yorkies that don't come from a breeder are right aways unhealthy. That comment doesn't fly with me at all. A pup from a breeder who ends up as a pet is just as at risk of health issues than a responsible owner who has pet pups.

Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2002373)

Ok, I'm going to throw out another scenario and see if it helps in terms of the topic of a breeders "pet quality" and an owners "pet quality litter.


If I am walking along and come across 2 booths set up. There is no advertising other than that both booths are selling Yorkies....I can't tell that one is a "breeder" of Yorkies and that the other is a owner who bred to Yorkies...pups all look the same. Do you think it would matter to me in terms of adding to the pet population that booth "A" came from a breeder and booth "B" came from a owner? Either booth has pet quality pups that now in this world and need a good home. No?

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2002491)

You're missing the point. An owner that just decides to breed their dog could easily sell a puppy with health problems out of ignorance. This is less likely to happen from a breeder, at least an honest one. The owner is responsible in maintaining the pup's health but you shouldn't be put in the position of buying an unhealthy puppy. The knowledge a breeder SHOULD have makes it less likely tho issues can arise even with an ethical breeder. If that were to occur, a breeder should stand behind the health of the puppy. Do you really think that would happen with an owner that just bred their dog with no real thought or intent? If you want to debate fairly, at least get real. There is no iron-clad guarantee with any living thing that a health issue won't arise. It's how it's handled that makes the difference. Breeders are at least aware of the potential whereas someone just breeding their dog casually (generally) is ignorant of it.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2002431)

The minute a litter of ANY pups are born they are contributing to the dog population when there are shelters full of unwanted pups. That can't really be argued. When 5 pups are born....that's 5 more the world has in it.

Originally Posted by RebelBelle (Post 2002523)