I think your pup (in the picture there) is so gorgeous...I hope you get the thumbs up too!

Like I said before...I didn't start this thread cause I am to the point of wanting to breed...I started it to learn and talk about the two sides. Should I decide to breed her in the future you can bet that I would do all my research and work prior...as well as think of the reasons why.

I actually ran into a retired Yorkie breeder not too long ago while out for a walk. She LOVED to hold my girl and was happy to answer coat growing questions and such for me. I got her number so I would certainly call on her for any questions in the future.

Marc, I've been reading this thread and have found it very interesting. I'd love to see the pics and videos of your girl...but am apparently not cp savvy enough to locate them.:rolleyes: Don't worry, I have no intention of "critiquing" anyone's pup. LOL, my two are about as off-standard as they come. Just interested in seeing your pics.

Ha...I know what you mean...it's hard to navigate this thing. Well, the picture by my name has both my Yorkie and my other dog. If you go to the "Yorkie Video" section then you will find a thread titled "9 week old yorkie learning to sit" and that is her in the first week we got her. I think if you click on "Gallery" at the top of the screen here....and then type in my username you will get pics of her that I posted. Let me know how that works!

coat
 

That is what I do and have done for 35 yrs...

12 weeks is a perfect age to start evaluation of the coat etc...this is how breeders do it...we watch and wait..and when we see a fault we do not want to reproduce, we find a lovely home for the Yorkie...and continue with the pups who show potential.

Please do not be insulted at an evaluation..of course, I did break my rule..you did NOT ask the quality of your Yorkie and for that I am in the wrong to have done so.

I did not mean it to be rude. All yorkies are beautiful. Even among show breeders, they all can't agree on what the perfect yorkie should look like.

I'm not insulted. I'm just wondering how you can evaluate and determine the texture of her coat and such threw a picture of her at 3 months old? I was under the impression that yorkies coats change as they grow, losing their puppy coat and coming into their adult coat later. So, what by the picture makes you think she is not where she should be?

If I met up with you and you were talking to me about your pup and then showed me a picture and the comment I gave you was..."Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder".....you'd certainly take that as rude.

I'll just say this and leave it be.....I didn't start this thread to be slammed. I didn't start this thread to have my dog slammed. I started this thread with no "bad thoughts or feelings" and just wanted to have a good clean discussion so both sides could put out their thoughts and hopefully learn from one another. Seeing as how I chose to make myself the "other side" and I am alone so far in this thread on that end of it...and the rest "breeder" minded....I was prepared to defend and question on the other side and new it may not be easy. But I am not intending to just be steam-rolled as a human pet lover or have my dog steam rolled either.

No problem though. I can easily move on. I am glad that others are enjoying the discussion and learning.

I do have about 30 years experience and you know coats. When you see a certain coat on a puppy - you know from experience. I was also a vet tech and also so many yorkies from being there. Your baby has a coat just like my first yorkie Chrissy. Let me find a photo. Here it is! I showed her and learned a lot. I look back and what a difference. But you have to start somewhere. She never grew a long coat. The photo was taken back in the late 70's. Everyone was nice and knew I was making a start and trying.
T.

And not trying to be rude - just educating. I think it is harder to educate in computer form. Less personal. So please do not take it as being rude. I was a little upset with your comment though to me in the beginning, but over it now. We all learn.

I did check out your photo gallery before making comments. Sweet photos. Are those your girls? I have a 26 year old. Boy am I getting old.

T.

I am sorry you took offense. I guess I did not choose my words well. We are all sensitive when it comes to our babies. I guess my point was that just because you think your dog is beautiful that does not necessarily mean she should be bred or is breeding quality. I was not making that comment from what I was seeing in the picture because the picture on you avatar is too small for me to tell much of anything and she is a young puppy. It was just a general statement. I did not go to your profile to see any other pictures. Like I said before, whatever you decide to do is your business, we are just here to give advise and opinions.

I'm honestly jealous that you know coats, lol. I still figuring out what she'll be like....when they lose puppy hair and does it "fall off" or "grow out". I have much to learn. Her coat isn't "rough" but what I would call "dry". She is on a good quality food and I am soon going to be giving her Omega 3, 6, 9. Her hair on her head is growing in nicely and very soft. Her body hair is growing...but slower. I saw both of her parents for a long period of time so I have an idea of what she MAY be like.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there...she's too young yet for me to determine what it'll be. Her hair is already what I can see in your picture so i think she will be closer to what her parents were which is a long but slow growing coat.

Chrissy's coat (one in photo) stayed that way from the time she was like 5 months till the rest of her life. It just never grew. It was fine and just stayed short. I tried oil and that did not even work.
Don't forget pups do also look like their grandparents, not just the parents , and can skip a generation and look exactly like the grandparent and nothing like their parents at all. I have seen this time after time. That is why it is so important to know lines. If it is an outcross - it is anyones guess.
What did you mean you are honestly jealous I know coats. LOL (what exactly?)
T.

I mean exactly that. One of the most mysterious and complicated things of a Yorkie is the coat....it'd be nice to know more. I am learning. I see her coat growing and changing color every week....so it is interesting and a learning experience for me. I have a friend who also has a yorkie pup the same age and looks completly different....it's interesting..

i have a grizzly yorkipoo with an amazing coat. he is 6 months old,, he never mats, he is soft and colorful,, too bad they dont have shows for yorkipoos..
my other yorkipoo from the same litter has the flat coat. totally different..
gus gus loves to be groomed.. i will cry if i ever have to cut his baby hair. it is amazing to see the color changes in the yorkies.. my yorkie has a beautiful golden color at age 3.. they do change... :aimeeyork:animal36:animal-pa

i asked my vet about testing my dogs ... she said it was not necessary.. they are healthy....i trust my vet:animal-pa

This is a very informative post, I have enjoyed reading. I do have a question that popped in my head while reading however and I am hoping someone can answer it for me please.

Does one have to be a member of the YTCA to show one of their dogs? Are there "clubs" for every breed of dog that is equal to what the YTCA does? I noticed that the code of ethics is on the YTCA website, so does that mean that when someone refer's to a breeder as unethical what they are stating is that that breeder does not adhere to what that club says and/or is not a member?

You do not have to be a YTCA member to show your dogs.I think that most brreeds have a parent club like YTCA. Example the STCA is the Skye Terrier Club of America. These parent clubs are the groups that set the standard for the specific breed. Unethical can mean different things. A breeder can be unethical in how he/she guarantees a puppy and how it is resolved if there is something wrong. Or, alot of breeders breed unethically by breeding pet quality to pet quality with no consideration to health. Breeders can be unethical by breeding outside the standard for that breed(coat type, unacceptable colors,conformation flaws,etc).
But, each club has its own rules and ,yes, you would be considered unethical if you were a member and did not follow them.

Thank you, so for most when using the term unethical it can be beyond the scope of what the YTCA considers it's "code of ethics" and could possibly be personal opinion and/or general opinion on "ethics".. does that sound right?

Now if these parent clubs are what set's the standards for a specific breed then what does the AKC do other then send out paperwork?

coat
 

Topknot has post an excellent photo of what your girls coat will most likely be as an adult...great!!!
Marc..What you are calling "dry" is actaully what the breeder knows to be "rough" or "coarse"... breaks before growing to proper length...it is a self maintaining coat, which isn't all that bad for a pet owner..LOL

A photo at 12 weeks speaks volumes to an educated eye and I do not understand why that is so puzzling??

I am going to put something out there that is soley for the purpose of showing the "breeders" something. I am not mad....just wanting this to be a learning thread on both sides and figure it should be pointed out.

My dog's coat is not the topic of this thread...but let's use it and the posts that have been made as the example.....

Before I started this thread and in the time that I have been on this site...I spent all of that time in the upper portion where the health and diet, training..etc is. While up there, any question I had was answered kindly and with no judgement. I posted questions even about my pups coat and replies were "some take longer....wait for the puppy hair to be gone....each grows at it's own pace." Some posted pictures in other peoples "coat" threads with the same concerns....and repliers said the same thing and in fact posted pictures of their pups up to even I believe 6 months of age when their pups hair still hadn't grown on the body much and then showed current pictures of long coats....telling the original poster that some just take time and that the puppy still has its puppy coat so hang in there.

THEN...I start this thread on breeding. My pup's coat comes into play (which is fine cause I am here to learn)...but all comments are "this is what she has....she will not have a long coat....her coat will break....and some even providing pictures of what coats their dogs ended up with. Nothing too positive...nothing about waiting for the puppy hair to go...nothing about slow growing hair...none of that what I got and read "upstairs", if you will.

Does that not strike you as odd? Does the drastic difference not instantly make you wonder if the lower you go on this board (top being the training and such..bottom being the breeders section) that attitudes change when it comes to "new owners" posting?

Non the less....this thread is not about my dog. Her coat will be what it will be. She is a small Yorkie and her health far outweighs her coat type. Each Yorkie comes into whatever coat that may.

I would really like the breeders to read this post carefully and take it to heart. I am not in any way hot over here....but felt it important to point out. Those who are on the other side of this can also ad should they feel the need.

In this forum, there are so many that are experienced with touching and watching multiple dogs grow. Much more so that one with just pets. We are breeders after all. I'm sure you would want everyone to be honest, going into detail. I guess everyone could tell you, "oh just give it time" and some fluff if that's what you're ears are itching to hear. You'd be better off in another section rather than posting a debate in the Breeder Section if that's the case.

Everyone here knows that the puppys blow their coat and go through changes, that's obvious. Our experience tells us that we can tell alot about coats even when they are puppies.

my self personally would never breed unreg dog's period
i have seen alot of stuff lately that just has turned my stomach as to what some byb are doing to this breed in my area one in indiana and one in ky
and these are so called breeders that i actually went to see and afterwords i could not get to a store fast enough for a can of lysol to spray myself and my jeep and these were reg

one i went to had there dog's in a mud pen and they were so matted
and dirty it made me want to cry so i don't know anymore
what is in the box or out i just know the abundance of ckc apri aca are on the rise and i really am terribly scared for this bred and what will come out of all of this in 5 year's from now

and i have petted a few out that were not to the standard
and i myself would never have used for breeding as far as this debate
i feel you will do as you wish it really does not matter how any of us feel

all we can do is try and perserve the best for when the yorkie fall's and the popularity of this breed goes down what will we have left a sick and broken
breed just go threw the sick forum . i am not saying all show people should be the only breeder's out there but we should all care enough to do the right thing.

how many wrongs will have to be righted so the breed may flourish again

just my opinion!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You took the words right out of my mouth. Although I will say...I respect a vet's MEDICAL opinion, I don't think they are knowledgable about every breed standard. Those questions I'd reserve for a show person or breeder. ;)

I've been trying to avoid posting in this thread, but the more I read it, the more I feel I should throw in my 2 cents. It appears that you're always claiming to want to learn "both" sides and that this thread is strictly for learning purposes. However, as I read your posts, it just seems like no matter how many knowledgeable breeders and owners give you their opinions and important facts to consider, you seem to question everything they say and try to defend your own position. Although I commend you for wanting to do your research and not just going ahead and breeding your girl without trying to get some important information, it also doesn't seem like you're taking in all this useful information that everyone has offered. You just counter back at them and try to justify breeding your girl....that's the thing that really bugs me :rolleyes:

You are right and jmho, I think the thread was started to stir trouble. if he had truly wanted advice he could have done a search. It is all there in the search engines on here. he can learn all he needs to now about BYB, reg. Breeders and yes, even coats. Some of the most knowledagle breeders and show people have offered advice on this thread only to have it thrown back in their face. This OP is going to do what he is going to do and the rest of us should just stop posting to it.

breeding
 

I totally, misunderstood your thread..I thought you were asking about breeding, sorry.

I too have avoided this thread, but.....in all do respect to every member here!

The breeders section is just that, all about "breeding this daunting breed"
A dedicated breeder understands and adheres to the breed standard, one who knows that pedigrees are more than a pretty piece of paper and that responsible breeding is far more complicated, costly, consuming than breeding two beloved house pets for litter of pretty puppies. With this in mind the breeders section is the most passionate controversal area in YT, simply put don't ask questions in this section if youre not seeking honest opinions.

There are many seasoned breeders that give their time helping others understand the breed standard, the responsiblities and costs involved in breeding, finally assisting those who know nothing about breeding yet they have a pregant bitch due to whelp!

If youre not seeking an honest answer then this area is not the area to post to, if you want to be petted or patted on the head there are plenty of sections on YT celebrating their passion for their pets.

Finally when someone is asking if they should breed their dog or not, they get what they ask for...answers and opinions...then like any mature adult one should ponder the advice and ultimately make their now informed decision.