I respectfully ask
 

I meant to make this its own thread.
I know so many people are not reading the BYB posts anymore.
I ask ADM to delete the other

I respectfully ask that we stop the debating about BYB
While we all know there are TRUE BYB that are nothing more then small Puppy Mills..And some do breed their dogs with knowing little or nothing
I respectfully want to say that you are NOT necessarily a BYB if you dont show your dogs Its disheartening to always be here at YT...where I thought was a nice place

To always feel .....like one of many here who as a loving Owner and breeder We always have to defend themselves 24/7
Its one debate after another anymore...Its so sad. And drives so many away.

I would invite each and every one of you to my small hobby farm.
To meet me....come in my home...to see my barns where my goats and other animals are....
See my Yorkies and other furbabies how much they are loved and cared for.
I'll go for a walk around my Lake with you and your furbabies .
I know you'll enjoy it as much as me and my furbabies do.
But dont blame me if my goats follow us and nip at your shirt...
I think you would see as family... friends and neighbors do.
What kind of person I am
None of them would think of me being a BYB . But a nice caring person.
I've had school children here.

I love my animals and if any of you know my situation.
They are a huge part of my life.

I respectfully ask that those of us here not be attacked so we fear posting.
I respectfully ask that you stop...think...before you post that peoples feelings do get hurt.
Hugs to all of you

You sound like a very loving person and I'm sure you deserve to be confident in your "breeding" activities. I think the key is to not allow yourself to be bothered by these sort of posts and to know yourself. There should not be black and white opinions of the type of breeders, only the irresponsible pet owners/breeders. Sounds to me like you're one of the good ones, no matter what label someone will put on you.

Don't be ran away from the site, just be confident that you're one of the "good" ones :)

NanaD - Thank you for this thread!!
 

NanaD -- THANK YOU so very much for your well thought out post.

I too, would like to see the Breeder's Forum here at YT a FRIENDLY place for ALL breeders, large, small, show, and non showing, to come and post trials, tribulations, triumphs of breeding. I have found that if I remain open minded I can learn from everyone - sometimes I learn things that I DON'T want to try but more often I glean helpful tips. It would be so very nice if the small breeders here at YT would post -- real life experiences from a wide variety of of breeders.

If everyone who posts here were required to read Simonandhallie's wonderful post in the following thread, then the breeder's forum WOULD be a YT friendly forum free of conflict: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28203

I would treasure a visit to your small farm..... and I issue an invitation to you to visit my small horse farm here in the Georgia Foothills and to have a romp with me and my pups and ponies..... btw.... my miniatures are shirt nippers too so you would feel right at home.

Believe it or not, in this vast community there are BYBer's in Yorkietalk. Breeders striving for excellence cannot keep silent. We need to see more of it, we're talking about overpopulation and terribly misaligning a breed.

I absolutely agree with the article (for the most part) that was posted. We shouldn't be breeding for the fun of it, shouldn't be breeding out of standard dogs. I've spayed/neutered dogs (1) I know are not a good representation of the breed standard and have began to build a good foundation. I don't have any trophies on my walls (yet) But that is my goal. Not to impress anyone, but to gain approval of my breeding stock by the judges. So you can (for now) put me in that category to if one must. I however, don't believe you have to show. I'm sorry you felt you had to defend yourself.

I have to say, this original post is scary. It's unbelievable. No one will silence breeders trying to do away with BYBing and trying to encourage those around to breed within the standard (no one should want them to imo). It has been spoken about more so lately and I think there's a reason for that. I don't believe in sticking my head in the sand for anyone.

Nobody here at YT is trying to silence anyone but when breeders (regardless of size) are afraid to post out of fear of being attacked, it poses a problem.

The breeding section is a place to learn, improve, grow, laugh, cry, and share experiences. It should not be a place to be judged or attacked.

I don't know how many times I can say this but if you have nothing nice to say to someone don't say it. It's so very simple. If you have advice that will help someone please share it. If you have made mistakes, please share those so people can learn from it. We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

Kim - thank you so very much for your post. I appreciate you so very much. I know that your Moderator's Hat is sometimes hard to wear, but you are very much appreciated!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You are welcome here anytime ! :)
I have never been to Georgia~! I know its more beautiful then Ohio tho!!!
And if I'm ever that way I just may take you up on it !
Meet you and your Yorkie family!
And I am going to read this thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28203

I'm sorry that you feel it scary and unbelievable.
I dont know why. But I do respect that.
I respect the way you feel and would never dream of asking you to put your head in the sand.
I really do not want this to turn into another debate.
I just want eveyone to be able to post here...learn..and enjoy Yorkietalk.

I can confidently say that I've never been one to be rude or attacking. I know alot of that goes on and absolutely agree that no one should be attacked, or put down. I've seen alot of pure meaness sometimes...here and in GD. I completely stay out of those threads.

When you said that we're here to learn, improve, grow, laugh, cry, and share experiences. I agree wholeheartedly. In the part of the learning and growing though, I think we have to look at our very own breeding programs. And posts about improving our breedings to stay close to the standard of the dog we all love so much (said in a tasteful manner) is an example and has only made me want to strive for the best, and be an asset instead of perhaps a hindrance (speaking of myself only).

Me neither Debbie, there should be no reason for this thread to get too heated or to be closed. I certainly don't mean anything personal against you (I was speaking in general). I hope it didn't come off that way, if it did I apologize.

I so agree with this.
And may I add...Dont PM them .And dont Use their Email addys to slam them.
Dislike them if thats the way your heart works.
But dont slam them...Thats not what this place is suppose to be about.
Gosh...I hope this doesnt turn into another debate thread.
Theres been too many debates already and we're losing wonderful people.

:thumbup::thumbup:

I think that YT's best attribute is the fact that it educates and communicates to all. When a poster gets too aggressive with their oppinion it kills good communication and defeats the purpose of the forum.

That being said, a little reminder like this thread is good to calm and welcome all opinions. We're not going to change anyone's mind here, unless it's done kindly.

OK, now lets talk politics, or how about religion? :D

How did you get to smart and so caring? I am here to learn and to share....

I cannot imagine that someone would actually send a nasty pm to someone that they disagreed with or to use an email address to start a slam attack. You have got to be kidding.... if that is going on, it reminds me of a movie I saw recently called "Mean Girls".

NanaD - please keep up the encouragement - it would be tragic to lose members over heated debates.:thumbdown:(

:love-hug3

You have never made me feel this way.
As someone else posted I am VERY confident in my breeding.
And I always like your posts.

Tho I gotta pull a funny....:p
You have 695 posts
You're as bad as me ! :p
We can go on and on in our posts....hehehehe:eek:
Have you ever thought of...how our post count would be soooooo much higher if we weren't such Yorkie Yackers? LOL!!!!
A bit OT I know...but I just had to say it!

:thumbup:Very well said. We can all learn from each other. We should not be attacking people just because we don't agree with them or they don't agree with us.

I rarely post on the breederss forum and will help anyone that pm's me but I am tired of being attacked. I also invite anyone that wants to, to come and see my home and dogs and how I do things. many have already been here but there are still those that say some of us are BYB. i have better things to do than keep on and on trying to defend myself. Then have thrown in my face "Well, if you aren't hiding anything, why get so defensive". the answer is simple. I am tired of it. it is only a few people that attack us but for some unknown reason those few are allowed to go on and on. They get to the point of saying enough to get themselves suspended, then stop and if you answer them back, well, I know personally, you are the one in trouble so why even try. I am just about done with the breeders forum.

i hate pm's. I have had to resort recently to blocking a certain person then she started using the form processor on my website to harrass me. I quickly turned her abuse over to freewebs for investigation.

:goodpost:
I completely understand about wanting to stay out of posting/reading on BT.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: I feel the exact SAME way.

:eek::eek: This is just wrong!!!!
I dont have a website. I did have a cute little page.
And I may have it again someday.
I'm working on it and wanting to add lots of new pics.
Not of puppies , but pics of my adopted furbabies as they grow up.
I get so many pics of them and so many of the people that I ask, say sure use them. Its cute the way they all groom them so different.
I am so happy every time I see a new pic~!
But to abuse someones website this way is unreal...
I post my email addys in my profile
So that anyone who is afraid to post at YT can write me.
I do not like to think anyone can not ask me questions or ask for advice.
That a puppy or even the Mama would die .
I've gotten BAD emails by putting my addys up.
But that goes along with all the sweet ones.
I'm sorry this has happened to you

:thumbup::thumbup:

I agree with most of this. No one should be sticking their head in the sand but instead researching, listening, and learning. Yes, I have seen some outright rude attacks and I believe that is very wrong and unnecessary. But many of the posts that get called "rude" or "attacks" are not that at all - they are true concern for the dogs and this breed. Breeding is a huge responsibility and not something to take lightly. Many times people come here asking for advice, and when they don't get told exactly what they want to hear, they get defensive and start calling others rude. Things need to be said so that others can learn from it and do what is best for the dogs. It's important to remember that you can't read tone so someone shouldn't automatically assume that a person is being rude.

Also, I think many people need to realize that when people post, it is not all about them. Many of us, myself included, are speaking in general when discussing breeding. No breeder our group of breeders is being singled out or being called this or that. It is all being spoken about in general. I think it is childish to continue with assumptions...if someone feels they are being singled out, maybe they should ask the poster about it instead of just assuming that they are being talked about. I don't see a problem with discussions or debates as long as no one is outright rude or personally attacking another member...differences of opinion and discussion are how we learn. Also, I think everyone can contribute to a discussion, no matter their age or personal experiences...I know many pet owners that sadly know more about this breed than most people breeding the dogs. Everyone should be open minded to whoever is posting...everyone can contribute, help educate, and be learned from.

I think we should all remember that YorkieTalk is supposed to be here for the love of the dogs. If someone is going to take on the responsibility of breeding, they should know what they are doing beforehand and know just how serious it is....you are dealing with the lives of the adults and potential puppies that may result. And you have a responsibility to this breed in general. Breeding is a privelege, not a right and should not be taken lightly. If we truly love the dogs, we look out for their best interest right? I just feel many times that a lot of people care more about not hurting anyone's feelings than the dog's life...there has to be a balance... I feel like the dog's are the silent and defensless ones though and need people to stand up for their best interest.

NanaD, I think I know who you are, and you are a wonderful, caring person. Please don't let the negative posts get to you. It's just not worth your getting upset over. Some of the negative posters need to step back and take a good long look at themselves and their hearts. JMO

Kim
We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

I forgot to address the above sentence in your post but you are so right and I agree 100 percent. The breeder forum should be a place where people having problems can come and ask the breeders who have experience for help. A closed forum would be a great idea.

It is true that breeders have a responsibility. However, when a new person comes on needing help, the simple fact is that many of them do not have the knowledge to realize the responsibility that comes with breeding. Not because they are stupid or lazy or deliberate, but because the average person (including the vets they get their instruction from) does not know it. The knowledge held by most of those on YT is not that of the average person. And when they come on here for an answer to a simple question, they instead get a host of responses about how they should not be breeding. This is not helpful, and in fact discourages them from asking anything. So the help they might have received on whelping their litter, etc.....they do not get. I cannot see how this is in the best interest of the dog.

By no means am I saying that the ethics of breeding should never be mentioned. It definitely should, otherwise these people will never be educated. However, there is a polite way of doing it that is rarely seen here.

I don't think anyone has a problem with people having concern for the dogs and breed, I have never seen anyone complain about someone showing concern. And there are indeed a great many posts which do not name names or refer to anyone individually. However, I do see a lot of scenarios like this (just a generic one here, I don't want to use anything actual):

Breeder--I choose not to bile acid test my puppies, because I don't consider the test to be accurate at such a young age.

Poster--In my personal opinion, any reputable breeder would bile acid test their puppies.

While it is true the poster is just stating their opinion, in the context it is no different than saying the breeder is not reputable. No wonder it is considered rude! How much nicer it would be to simply state their differing opinion on the testing, acknowledge that others may have a different opinion, and go on about their merry way. The poster has then educated, but in a respectful way.

And, in this spirit, I will acknowledge that others may have differing opinions. :) One last thought...if a person finds that they are often interpreted as being rude, regardless of their intention, it would be the humble and courteous thing to examine their posts closely. One or two people can easily be wrong, but if a person is consistently viewed as rude by several people....could be they have a point.

Thank you for this thread.. I am also a small hobby breeder and I feel the same as you. Come to my house, see how my dogs live, how I live, talk to my vet who will tell you I care about what I breed and how I do this. How I feel integrity is more important to me as a person...
I am always willing to learn.. always wanting to get the best yorkie I can get to breed without being a show breeder..(this is not easy to do)
But I see far to much of the beating up verbally on this forum.. and far too much announcing how they feel..
People that show,.. were not born with this talent.. nor people that breed..
Puppymill people would not want to join a thread like this, they seem to hide out in order to sell to pet stores.

I have seen so many insults and seen so many extremely hurt over so many threads..
Maybe many should come here as a friend.. wanting to learn and not just be judgemental. There are many good breeders on here I have learned so much from show breeders and hobby breeders alike.. I too am asking all, including breeders to not make judgemental comments. My intention is to learn not to be judged or ridiculed..
Those threads about BYB's needs to stop.. It is obvious that we have lost and are losing too many good people.
thanks for listening....anne