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-   -   First time breeding?? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/109837-first-time-breeding.html)

MeganS 01-06-2008 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelkiss5 (Post 1651985)
I read the first page and have jumped to the last 1 here. I no what is being said in the 4 pages in between. And I can guess that it is not what you want to hear. Well im always the type to sit back and look at this type of question with both my eyes open and quite a lot of understanding.
But you have absolutely put me into shock. I cant believe that you would breed a puppy, OMG you are being so irresponsible. I mean she is only a baby herself, how can you expect her to be a good Mother when she has so little experience of life herself. How can you expect a puppy who am assuming just wants to play all day herself to be calm enough to give those wee puppy's all the love, care and attention they need.
SHAME ON YOU. Puppy mill just comes to my mind!!!!!!! I am sorry but thats all I can say to you.

I'm going to have to agree with you. A 9 month old puppy does not need to, and probably does not know how to, take care of a litter of puppies. She is still a puppy herself, she wants to run around and play, not sit in a box and nurse her babies.

I agree about puppy mills coming to mind. Not necessarily the OP, but it sounds like a familiar story with this "reputable" breeder she got Lacie from.

BamaFan121s 01-06-2008 10:45 AM

I just want to say that I am glad/relieved to see that I am not the only one willing to speak my mind and voice concern about this situation and all the little oddities that it involves.:)

MeganS 01-06-2008 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1652162)
I just want to say that I am glad/relieved to see that I am not the only one willing to speak my mind and voice concern about this situation and all the little oddities that it involves.:)

I'm glad you did say what you were thinking. I was going to keep my mouth (fingers ;)) shut, but after I saw your post I just said, well almost said, what I wanted and what I was thinking. She needed to hear that she did the wrong thing, whether she likes it or not. Good for you! and I think compared to some people, your post was mild. :p

BamaFan121s 01-06-2008 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeganS (Post 1652317)
I'm glad you did say what you were thinking. I was going to keep my mouth (fingers ;)) shut, but after I saw your post I just said, well almost said, what I wanted and what I was thinking. She needed to hear that she did the wrong thing, whether she likes it or not. Good for you! and I think compared to some people, your post was mild. :p

:) Good to hear. Thanks Megan!

MyFairLacy 01-06-2008 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1652162)
I just want to say that I am glad/relieved to see that I am not the only one willing to speak my mind and voice concern about this situation and all the little oddities that it involves.:)

Unfortunately, I don't think the OP cares to listen and actually consider the advise being given. If she cared, she wouldn't have allowed her puppies to breed in the first place - I mean, seriously, how could anyone think it's okay to breed a 3lb puppy?!? She said in her original post that she knew it shouldn't have happened...so she knew it was wrong...but she didn't care..did it anyway. And in the process has put her puppy in danger. OP - did you know Lacie could DIE? It is a very real possiblity. I'm sorry if you think people are being harsh, but no one responsible is just going to sit back and tell you what you did was okay...because it was not okay

txshopper73 01-06-2008 01:56 PM

Hopefully your female did not take since the male was so young...and you can look back on this as a learning experience.

In case she did take, however, have a vet handy that specializes in small breed dogs since you could be looking at a costly c-section.

Good luck to you and your dogs.

TinyBit 01-07-2008 06:00 AM

I messed up my information:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1643811)
You bred two babies? Why? I can not believe ANY vet would be okay with that. At that age, how do you even know if they meet the standard or have any genetic issues? What you just did was equivalent to letting two 10 year olds (humans) have babies together. Neither one of those babies is even fully developed yet. And to be so tiny...3lbs is too small to breed. And her mother is bred twice a year??? That breeder should be ashamed of herself You do NOT breed every heat cycle

I must Clear up a misunderstanding here:
I wrote earlier: Her mother is also 3# and used for breeding twice a year. Her sire is 3# also. Mother always has 4 pups in each litter avg. about 1.5 oz at birth
I meant her sire is breed twice a year to different females. Th breeder has three females. Lacie's mom is 4 years old and has had 3 litters.
Sorry about the error.

TinyBit 01-07-2008 06:05 AM

Also:
 
I DO know she should not be breed now.
I had put her in a area with baby gates up and she was climbing out of them almost every day. She was there for over 10 days. I got home one day and saw they had tied up and called the vet.
That is when he told me that she may not get PG because of Gizmo's age and that it would be ok. They tied up twice that I know of. on the 14th and the 19th. So she MAY NOT have taken.

I do pray she is NOT PG now. I would have liked to used her with Teddy later on. (Teddy is only 3# himself)

I was told to wait a few more weeks and bring her in for xrays. I am planning on doing this.

TinyBit 01-07-2008 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addicted (Post 1650137)
Well said....

I'm pretty sure she don't want to abort the litter. She intentionally bred them to begin with. Can you say "cha ching!"....

This was very hurtful:

If Lacie is PG, I have plans to give two away to good homes:
One to a disabled vet and one to a senior lady who just lost her little dog a bout a month ago.

This would not be about money.
If you fancy breeders with all your experience would NOT price your puppies so high, more of the commonman (woman) could afford them. the Yorkie was first owned by poor people in England until some fancy lady decieded she just had to have one, then they started breeding them smaller and smaller to satifiy the RICH people. CAN YOU SAY CHA CHING!!!!!!!

TinyBit 01-07-2008 06:14 AM

New Question
 
Now if I have not lost all friends here on YT, I do have another question:

Just yesterday, Gizmo seems to try to hump Lacie again, Does this mean she is NOT PG? Is she still in heat?? Do I need to keep them apart??

These answers would be helpful,
Thanks,
Dawn

BamaFan121s 01-07-2008 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653951)
Just yesterday, Gizmo seems to try to hump Lacie again, Does this mean she is NOT PG? Is she still in heat?? Do I need to keep them apart??

Obviously. If by a miracle she is NOT prego:xfingers: , you certainly want to continue/start to keep them separated and don't give them any chance to breed.

BamaFan121s 01-07-2008 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653941)
I had put her in a area with baby gates up and she was climbing out of them almost every day. She was there for over 10 days.

And during these 10 days of her escaping every day, it never occurred to you that this method of keeping them separated was? Seems like it would have been very apparent that you needed to take other precautions. IMO, this could have been very easily prevented, provided there are at least 2 rooms in your house with a door between them.

ryorkies 01-07-2008 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653951)
Now if I have not lost all friends here on YT, I do have another question:

Just yesterday, Gizmo seems to try to hump Lacie again, Does this mean she is NOT PG? Is she still in heat?? Do I need to keep them apart??

These answers would be helpful,
Thanks,
Dawn

Huh?
After all this .... ? :confused:

TinyBit 01-07-2008 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1653975)
And during these 10 days of her escaping every day, it never occurred to you that this method of keeping them separated was? Seems like it would have been very apparent that you needed to take other precautions. IMO, this could have been very easily prevented, provided there are at least 2 rooms in your house with a door between them.

We heat with a free standing wood stove. If I had closed a door, she would have been without heat while we had 6" of snow on the ground. I didn't feel that was a good options either. Be thanks for the advice and when I can afford cental heat like you all I'll do that.

Now do you think she could still be in heat???

francis53 01-07-2008 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653941)
I DO know she should not be breed now.
I had put her in a area with baby gates up and she was climbing out of them almost every day. She was there for over 10 days. I got home one day and saw they had tied up and called the vet.
That is when he told me that she may not get PG because of Gizmo's age and that it would be ok. They tied up twice that I know of. on the 14th and the 19th. So she MAY NOT have taken.

I do pray she is NOT PG now. I would have liked to used her with Teddy later on. (Teddy is only 3# himself)

I was told to wait a few more weeks and bring her in for xrays. I am planning on doing this.


I really hope she isn't pg, and if you get this little girl spayed soon, you won't have to worry about an accidental pregnancy.
Consider looking for a bigger girl to breed with your 3 lb. boy, I'm sure that is what more experienced breeders would suggest.

BamaFan121s 01-07-2008 06:44 AM

My honest opinion still is to take your girl and have her spayed. Even if she is not prego at this point, she will NEVER be a size that a pregnancy will not pose a serious risk to her life and it will need to be done in any case. No offense, but with her size and age working against her in addition to your lack of knowledge regarding breeding/whelping, this girl is in some serious trouble. IMO, best to swallow your pride and do what is in HER best interest.

I don't know what other advice you could hope for or be looking for. I think all the possible options and possibilities have been presented to you already. Now it's up to you to make the right choice and accept what comes your way.

Best of luck to you.

BamaFan121s 01-07-2008 06:53 AM

:rolleyes:
Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653991)
We heat with a free standing wood stove. If I had closed a door, she would have been without heat while we had 6" of snow on the ground. I didn't feel that was a good options either. Be thanks for the advice and when I can afford cental heat like you all I'll do that.

Crates are very inexpensive. (especially when compared to the costs you are about to rack up) Less than $20. You could have kept her in the room w/ the heat and kept them separated...just saying, this COULD have been easily prevented. "Accidents" are avoidable--all you have to do is try.

Brooklynn 01-07-2008 07:04 AM

I've sorta been keeping up with this thread and when I say sorta is because it makes me sick to my stomach to know a 9 month old puppy possibly being pregnant with a 7 month old male! If the OP has any concern and care for this little puppy girl she would take her in NOW and have her spayed ASAP! She will be too small to ever be bred and the OP needs to do the responsible thing plain and simple! At this point I don't care who's feelings are hurt and who gets mad at me that's not my concern at all...my concern is for the puppy that was bred plain and simple! Get her spayed!!!!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

ryorkies 01-07-2008 07:13 AM

Breeding is a HUGE responsibility and the decision to do so should not be entered into lightly. This means learn as much as possible BEFORE you even think about doing so. Talk and visit with as many breeders as possible, Attend actual whelpings and assist whenever possible and please listen to the breeders here on YT, as they have years of experience and knowledge that would be hard to find anywhere else online. These babies in your care are living breathing little angels and if you have decided to breed you should be able to say that you have done EVERYTHING humanly possible to avoid any potential problems, or complications. You are responsible for whatever happens in the future and they are counting on you to keep them safe from harm... this includes any puppies born under your care.

I certainly hope you do not take this post as mean spirited, but hopefully as just another post from someone who cares .....

TammyJM 01-07-2008 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1641835)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Walton KS
Posts: 1,126 Advice for first time breeding.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, first off I know many of you will say I should NOT have let my pups breed. I had both checked with two local vets and talked with three breeders in my area that said it would be fine. So our story goes like this.

This was Lacie's First heat cycle(age 9 months) in a 3# female, very small be also very mature and healthly. Her mother is also 3# and used for breeding twice a year. Her sire is 3# also. Mother always has 4 pups in each litter avg. about 1.5 oz at birth and adult weight avg. 3#

Gizmo was only 7 months and I wasn't sure he'd be ready yet. He figured it out. He is bigger almost 5#. Both I believe comes from smaller parents. I got him from Pam Hinkle here on YT.

Questions: I saw tie ups from Dec. 14 - Dec. 19th. When should I begin counting days from??? the first? the Last? Between??

At what date should I be doing xrays?? Are they needed?

What other dangers Do I need to know???

I have checked out the heat cycle link and have read as much as possible. But just thought I'd ask you all that have been there for your advice also.
Thanks
Dawn
__________________

I just reread this and I am confused. :confused: You are now saying that this was an accident but in actuallity, your post says that you let them tie. Also, you are now saying that it was twice but in your original post, you say it was from Dec.14-Dec.19....was it twice in those 5 days or everyone of those days?

I am not trying to be mean but you brought this situation to us and now you don't like the answers so you are changing the story. The things that have been written are because we care about your puppy, not because we just want to hurt your feelings.

I hope that your puppy is not pregnant, but if she is, please get her the best vet to help you through this....

Tammy

larsensyorkies 01-07-2008 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653991)
We heat with a free standing wood stove. If I had closed a door, she would have been without heat while we had 6" of snow on the ground. I didn't feel that was a good options either. Be thanks for the advice and when I can afford cental heat like you all I'll do that.

Now do you think she could still be in heat???

YES! If your male is trying to mount her than I would assume she is still in heat. If they tied twice I'm assuming she is already pregnant, but I'd still keep them apart for the chance she is not. Is there someone you can board her with? Not trying to be mean, just make you aware since you said you can't afford central heat...are you aware that a c-section can easily cost $1000-$2000 and that’s just the first day of the puppies lives (if they survive) and then shots, dewormings, tail dockings, cleaning up the messes, food, time, etc - this is not a cheap dog to breed if you do it properly.

011011 01-07-2008 07:54 AM

My females will hump my males when they are PG,it is not uncommon IMO.
My last female humped my poor male all the way through,we ended up with 6 pups!Hormones I belive.

kelkiss5 01-07-2008 08:00 AM

Look Tinybit. Listen to what you are being told here. Honestly am 1 of the most understanding person I no. :p . But you gotta go back and read all your posts, you are coming though as a very unresponsible person. I don't no you so I don't want to judge you, but you gotta understand I cant help feeling the way I do about your situation. It is totally unethical to breed your baby, and that is exactly what she is. Now in the last few pages I feel that people are really trying to help you here. As Bama says, go buy a crate. I really feel that you should have her spade. Get it done and just enjoy her. Hopefully you will see in the long run that it was the best thing for you and her.
Now if you really want to breed there is nothing I or anyone can say to stop you. But please come here and you will hopefully get all the best advice you need.
Yorkietalk was the best thing for me when I was considering breeding. I have learned an awful lot here. And I hope that 1 day I will be as great at it as some of the wonderful breeders we have here.
Please please reconsider what you are doing here.
Oh and another thing, you no you can get the after morning pill for her. 1 of my females got out when she was in heat and tied with 1 of the local dogs. Well I was able to get it for her, and hey presto no babys. Even if she had of tied with another yorkie, I would never have let her have babies, she was only 18mths and far to immature to be a mother. You see mistakes can happen, but you can be adult enough to rectify the mistake.

KathyinCali 01-07-2008 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1654003)
My honest opinion still is to take your girl and have her spayed. Even if she is not prego at this point, she will NEVER be a size that a pregnancy will not pose a serious risk to her life and it will need to be done in any case. No offense, but with her size and age working against her in addition to your lack of knowledge regarding breeding/whelping, this girl is in some serious trouble. IMO, best to swallow your pride and do what is in HER best interest.

I don't know what other advice you could hope for or be looking for. I think all the possible options and possibilities have been presented to you already. Now it's up to you to make the right choice and accept what comes your way.

Best of luck to you.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

addicted 01-07-2008 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653946)
This was very hurtful:

If Lacie is PG, I have plans to give two away to good homes:
One to a disabled vet and one to a senior lady who just lost her little dog a bout a month ago.

This would not be about money.
If you fancy breeders with all your experience would NOT price your puppies so high, more of the commonman (woman) could afford them. the Yorkie was first owned by poor people in England until some fancy lady decieded she just had to have one, then they started breeding them smaller and smaller to satifiy the RICH people. CAN YOU SAY CHA CHING!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to hurt you. It's just that you weren't responding and you were disagreeing with almost everyone on here. I started to feel you don't regret them breeding. After reading that you didn't mean for them to breed now, it's more relieving to hear that, BUT the thing is, you are still planning to breed her :mad:. I think you should consider getting a bigger female at least around 5 pounds. Let's just pray she's not pregnant. Please, consider spaying her and start with a bigger female. Best luck to you.

MeganS 01-07-2008 10:59 AM

I understand money problems, BELIEVE me, but if you're too tight on money, it is not a good idea to breed. I'm NOT picking on you, because we are in a VERY VERY bad financial situation ourselves, and I feel for you, but breeding can be very expensive. I am seriously urging you to get Lacie spayed. It is NOT too late. For your sake, for your dogs sake, for the future puppies' sake. Please get her spayed. If you want to breed, that's fine, but then you need to get a bigger female, and do a lot more reasearch. and you need to make sure that you are comfortable and stable financially.

I really hope this didn't offend you, because I understand, but its not a good idea to have a VERY TINY pg female, when you are tight on money. This is simply because if something goes wrong, it can cost you thousands and thousands of dollars, and you need to be sure that you have money to use if (God forbid) something happens.

MyFairLacy 01-07-2008 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653941)
I DO know she should not be breed now.
I had put her in a area with baby gates up and she was climbing out of them almost every day. She was there for over 10 days. I got home one day and saw they had tied up and called the vet.
That is when he told me that she may not get PG because of Gizmo's age and that it would be ok. They tied up twice that I know of. on the 14th and the 19th. So she MAY NOT have taken.

I do pray she is NOT PG now. I would have liked to used her with Teddy later on. (Teddy is only 3# himself)

I was told to wait a few more weeks and bring her in for xrays. I am planning on doing this.

If it was an accident, it wouldn't have happened twice...

MyFairLacy 01-07-2008 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyBit (Post 1653946)
If you fancy breeders with all your experience would NOT price your puppies so high, more of the commonman (woman) could afford them. the Yorkie was first owned by poor people in England until some fancy lady decieded she just had to have one, then they started breeding them smaller and smaller to satifiy the RICH people. CAN YOU SAY CHA CHING!!!!!!!

:confused: Are you serious? The purchase price of a yorkie will be the LEAST of your expenses over its lifetime

EmrldShdwQueen 01-07-2008 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1655910)
:confused: Are you serious? The purchase price of a yorkie will be the LEAST of your expenses over its lifetime

lol...ain't that the truth? Sweetie, PM me if you ever want to talk...I have 6 and take care of 8...and MyFairLacy is MORE than accurate about that. I have spent what I paid for EACH of mine 20 times over I'm sure...you REALLY need to think about the health of your little girl...it's NOT about the money, BUT you've GOT to be able to afford what you've got, or else you'll be in the hole and digging deperately to get out in no time...:eek:

daisy mae06 01-07-2008 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1655907)
If it was an accident, it wouldn't have happened twice...

YA think it is time to LIB.. ???
she knows how you feel and evryone else too. I have backed out of this thread. as I though I knew the OP But now??
.
I will Keep my mouth Shut.


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