Proposed new aphis regulation

[gemy]

LOSEY COMMENTS LETTER TO APHIS ON PROPOSED RULE

[Yorkiemom1]

Thank you gemy for staying on top of this! We have GOT to stop this....the collateral damage that will be done, as outlined in this letter, will result in the death knell for thousands of reputable, responsible, ethical breeders...........but then, THAT is the agenda behind these proposals, dressed up like PROPOSED legislation to "protect poor little abused animals"......which is something we all want done! So, TO THAT END, ENFORCE THE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS ALREADY! SEVERE PUNISHMENT FOR ANYONE THAT IS CONVICTED OF ABUSING ANIMALS, WITH NO CHANCE OF EARLY RELEASE, REGARDLESS OF HOW "NICE AND WELL BEHAVED" THEY ARE, WHILE UNDER A MICROSCOPE IN PRISON, WHERE THEY ARE NOT AROUND ANIMALS! MANDATORY CONVICTIONS AND SENTENCING FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE GUILTY OF ANIMAL ABUSE......IF THAT IS INDEED THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THIS BILL!!! Make it illegal for pet stores to sell puppies and kittens, since THAT is the largest source used to funnel "puppy mill products" to the public. This Losey Letter outlines in bullet points, EXACTLY how this is going to affect all of us in home breeders. I hope people will read it and then go to AKC.org and sign the petition against passing this bill.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Thank you gemy for staying on top of this! We have GOT to stop this....the collateral damage that will be done, as outlined in this letter, will result in the death knell for thousands of reputable, responsible, ethical breeders...........but then, THAT is the agenda behind these proposals, dressed up like PROPOSED legislation to "protect poor little abused animals"......which is something we all want done! So, TO THAT END, ENFORCE THE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS ALREADY! SEVERE PUNISHMENT FOR ANYONE THAT IS CONVICTED OF ABUSING ANIMALS, WITH NO CHANCE OF EARLY RELEASE, REGARDLESS OF HOW "NICE AND WELL BEHAVED" THEY ARE, WHILE UNDER A MICROSCOPE IN PRISON, WHERE THEY ARE NOT AROUND ANIMALS! MANDATORY CONVICTIONS AND SENTENCING FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE GUILTY OF ANIMAL ABUSE......IF THAT IS INDEED THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THIS BILL!!! Make it illegal for pet stores to sell puppies and kittens, since THAT is the largest source used to funnel "puppy mill products" to the public. This Losey Letter outlines in bullet points, EXACTLY how this is going to affect all of us in home breeders. I hope people will read it and then go to AKC.org and sign the petition against passing this bill.

All I will say is that you are absolutely right. These laws are NOT going to shut down illegal puppy mills and byb breeders...they are already breaking the laws....GIANT DUH....enforce the freaking laws that are already on the books, what the hell are they thinking???? They are thinking this will shut the PETA type people up for awhile, chances are these politicians don't even understand this law or anything about mills and byb's. Honestly, I've kept my mouth shut on this cuz its not "my arena" but it does pee me off to know end....soon all we will have are Mutts and sickly inbreded dogs...we need to support our ethical breeders people....do your part, I have...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

All I will say is that you are absolutely right. These laws are NOT going to shut down illegal puppy mills and byb breeders...they are already breaking the laws....GIANT DUH....enforce the freaking laws that are already on the books, what the hell are they thinking???? They are thinking this will shut the PETA type people up for awhile, chances are these politicians don't even understand this law or anything about mills and byb's. Honestly, I've kept my mouth shut on this cuz its not "my arena" but it does pee me off to know end....soon all we will have are Mutts and sickly inbreded dogs...we need to support our ethical breeders people....do your part, I have...

If you are a pet owner, and want to have well bred pups in the future it sure as heck is in your arena!

Somewhere in that densely written article, was the phrase "incremental wins"; the bit by bit process of acheiving your (the organizations aims) by chewing/chopping off bits of the problem.

The problem has been - and as I foresee it will always be the "regular dog owners" just don't get it at all!. And of course while we are an economic force to be reckoned with; we have NO VOICE. No voice united, aware, and adamant about what we want the future to be. Not to mention no funding.

APHIS extended the comment period; yet closed the first venue for submitting comments. AphIS has subsequently published a FAQ sheet to respond in part obviously to comments that were submitted. So IMO, they were unprepared not only for the resistance to this regulation but for the intelligent and reasoned arguments they were getting. They had hoped this would get by underneath the awareness of the general public.

AS a small Canadian hobby breeder, this regulation won't directly in the short term affect me initially. Except that there will be many small breeders in the US, that I might like to have a breeding dog from, and if they stop breeding what then? I do own a RARE BREED, and a Working Breed. We are a small community World wide. We share, we learn from each other, and yes we buy from each other. We meet each other at National Specialties, we meet each other over the Internet. We network together in Rescue and in so many other things.

I sincerely hope this new Regulation is ditched and does not go into effect!

[gemy]

To sign the AKC petition:
Join With the AKC to Protect Responsible Small Breeders

Regulations.gov

I hope the above is the new link to submit comments


Remember while it is good to sign the AKC petition; no matter how many names are on the list, it will only "count" as one comment.

[concretegurl]

Thanks for sharing this.

[magicgenie]

Some of us do get it and appreciate your vigilance. I get several inquiries a day now from people who are searching for a reputable breeder and willing to travel interstate to get to one. I tell them they have PETA, HSUS and ASPCA and their extreme legislative agendas to thank for the shortage.
The lack of interest and response to this thread is disheartening.

[concretegurl]

Link this to the general forum please...many people do not use this section that often.

[Nancy1999]

I've been interested in getting that legislation passed. Gail do you understand that right now if you sell directly to the public or over the internet you need no license, no matter how many dogs you sell? The worst puppy mills are unlicensed facilities. People here are always saying stay away from USDA licensed kennels, they are puppy mills, but they are loads better than the places that sell over the internet. I don’t buy the statement that even if you sell one dog this will affect you. Have you read the actual bill instead of a third party statement about the bill? This will give the USDA the same authoritiy as when breeders sold to pet stores. Commercial breeders have been known to target small breeders and fool them into helping them fight their fight. The site that you linked doesn’t sound like an independent site that explains the bill, it sounds like it’s just propaganda for the commercial lobby.

Here’s what the ASPCA says about the bill. USDA Moving to Regulate Internet Sales-Based Puppy Mills
May 11, 2012

On Thursday, May 10, the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) announced its intention to release proposed regulatory language to close a loophole that has “threatened the health and humane treatment of pets sold sight unseen over the Internet and via phone- and mail-based businesses.” Due to the wording of the federal Animal Welfare Act—passed 40 years ago, before existence of the Internet—a large (and growing) population of commercial breeders has been able to escape licensing and regulation. Currently, only breeders who sell dogs to pet stores or to puppy brokers are required to be licensed and inspected by the USDA.The ASPCA applauds the federal government’s acknowledgement that a huge community of puppy breeders in this country desperately requires regulation. “No one is checking up on these facilities now,” says Cori Menkin, Senior Director of the ASPCA’s Puppy Mills Campaign. “Without a legal authority, federal inspectors cannot inspect these breeders. As the ASPCA has seen firsthand, the photos of happy, healthy puppies posted on a breeder’s website often grossly misrepresent what conditions are really like for these puppies and their parents.”
ASPCA policy experts are standing ready to review APHIS’s proposed rule—once our analysis is complete, we will share our position and comments with our supporters and request that they take action by contacting the USDA during its 60-day comment period.
We look forward to working with APHIS to ensure that the final rule is both enforceable and effective. Please stay tuned for our forthcoming Advocacy Alert on this issue and join the ASPCA Advocacy Brigade ASPCA | USDA Moving to Regulate Internet Sales-Based Puppy Mills

If one of you breeders are worried about not passing a USDA tests, you need to read more about their requirements, their minimum requirements are very lax. Kennels need to be a certain minimum size with no rusty prods poking through and things like that. Don't let commercial breeders scare you into fighting their fights.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

All I will say is that you are absolutely right. These laws are NOT going to shut down illegal puppy mills and byb breeders...they are already breaking the laws....GIANT DUH....enforce the freaking laws that are already on the books, what the hell are they thinking???? They are thinking this will shut the PETA type people up for awhile, chances are these politicians don't even understand this law or anything about mills and byb's. Honestly, I've kept my mouth shut on this cuz its not "my arena" but it does pee me off to know end....soon all we will have are Mutts and sickly inbreded dogs...we need to support our ethical breeders people....do your part, I have...

Actually they are not breaking any laws, that's the problem. There are NO laws covering those who sell over the internet. The laws only apply to those who sell to pet stores, this bill will help correct that.

[caw]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Actually they are not breaking any laws, that's the problem. There are NO laws covering those who sell over the internet. The laws only apply to those who sell to pet stores, this bill will help correct that.

All this is very interesting and informative.

[gemy]

[QUOTE=Nancy1999;3980923]I posted on the other thread, but I want to post here too. Please read this bill before you believe what is being written about it. This has happened so many times, and the bill is nothing like people are saying. I've been interested in getting this legislation passed. (1) Gail do you understand that right now if you sell directly to the public or over the internet you need no license, no matter how many dogs you sell? The worst puppy mills are unlicensed facilities. People here are always saying stay away from USDA licensed kennels, they are puppy mills, but they are loads better than the places that sell over the internet. (4) I don’t buy the statement that even if you sell one dog this will affect you. (2)Have you read the actual bill instead of a third party statement about the bill? This will give the USDA the same authoritiy as when breeders sold to pet stores. Commercial breeders have been known to target small breeders and fool them into helping them fight their fight. (3) The site that you linked doesn’t sound like an independent site that explains the bill, it sounds like it’s just propaganda for the commercial lobby.

1) I do

2) I have

3) Don't know why you say that. To the best of my knowledge it is not run by a commercial lobby. If I find out that it is. I will rescind my recommendation to read this site.


4) From the Bill
II. Summary of Major Provisions
‘‘Retail pet stores’’ are not required to

obtain a license under the AWA or

comply with the AWA regulations and

standards. Currently, anyone selling, at

retail, the following animals for use as

pets are considered retail pet stores:

Dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs,

hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, gophers,

chinchilla, domestic ferrets, domestic

farm animals, birds, and cold-blooded

species.

This proposed rule would rescind the

‘‘retail pet store’’ status of anyone

selling, at retail for use as pets, the

animals listed above to buyers who do

not physically enter his or her place of

business or residence in order to

personally observe the animals available

for sale prior to purchase and/or to take

custody of the animals after purchase.

Unless otherwise exempt under the

regulations, these entities would be

required to obtain a license from APHIS

and would become subject to the

requirements of the AWA, which

include identification of animals and

recordkeeping requirements, as well as

the following standards: Facilities and

operations (including space, structure

and construction, waste disposal,

heating, ventilation, lighting, and

interior surface requirements for indoor

and outdoor primary enclosures and

housing facilities); animal health and

husbandry (including requirements for

veterinary care, sanitation and feeding,

watering, and separation of animals);

and transportation (including

specifications for primary enclosures,

primary conveyances, terminal

facilities, and feeding, watering, care,

and handling of animals in transit).
]

Please see highlighted items


Now Nancy, I was alerted to this "new regulation" by three very reputable Rare Breeders. Asking for my help if after review of the legislation I thought that either it was a) a clear and present danger to hobby breeders b) ineffective c) cost prohibitive and d) would actually do one whit to curb actual puppy mills.

A while ago I read the requirements for Kennels, and I was appalled. First and foremost in my mind, VERY FEW PUPPIES IF ANY, should be raised outside in kennels. It is poppycock. Dogs are in the main part destined to live in residential homes, and that is exactly where they should be brought up.

I would like to see the demise of ALL COMMERCIAL KENNELS and PUPPY MILLS and BYBERS. But then where would we be? Empty rescues, shelters? Ummmm. I wonder.

Now I have a question for you; have you read the Losey article? It is linked in the Animal Protection and Welfare thread.

I am going to ask a very basic question akin to ; The Emperor's New Clothes (remember that story), why if you want to STOP internet selling of puppies from suspected Puppy Mills, are you NOT looking at an Internet solution?

IS the answer this Regulation , OR is it more importantly, EDUCATION. Education of the buying public.

Now back to this proposed regulation. Four Breeding Bitches? I asked on my comment to them What is the Definiton of a breeding Bitch? Oh wow, just an unspayed female? How damaging. There are females we will retire from breeding, and NOT SPAY due to health risks surmounting any benefit. There are puppy females who are too young for breeding, too young for placement. In any given month we may have a whole lot more than 4 unspayed Bitches in the house. So what do you want me the hobby breeder to do with my beautiful 5 yr old bitch who I've retired from breeding, can't spay but want to keep her in the only home she has ever known? Remember I will work with my breed for their lifetime. I might still be working with her for her Utility Title or Rescue work.

With the Rare breeds and other breeds I know for sure, but particularly the RAre Breeds we network constantly over the internet. Post pics, crow and brag about our accomplishments, show litters, house, training areas, meet each other at shows. Remember many of us may travel 1000 miles or so to get to a show. Oftentimes when at shows, we will purchase a puppy from each other. We have already done the pedigree research, and in this environment, we get to see, to feel, to touch, to watch the movement of the puppy we are interested in. Or we are examining the studs, and bitches that do come to the Nationals or other big shows. The maybe over the phone or internet we arrange the purchase of same. I don't want my ability to purchase a top quality dog to be decimated by this "ruling". We are few enough breeders in North America as is!.

I respect your opinion Nancy, as I hope you do mine;maybe we see things through different lenses.

[Nancy1999]

Gail, I believe the commercial breeders lobby is using reputable breeders to pass on misinformation. So many of them just pass the email along without fully understanding what it says, and of course if someone who you respect passes it along, well you believe it's all true. Do you at least trust the ASPCA? Have you read what they say about the law?


This whole thing was started because of a commercial breeding facility called "Purebred Breeders, LLC". They have over 800 websites with different names and sell over 20,000 puppies a year. People were buying sick dying puppies and the Humane society got involved in a lawsuit with them. Purebred Breeders LLC is worse than the Hunte corporation who use to buy from independent dog breeders who at least had to be USDA inspected. It used to be thought that pet buyers who bought directly from a breeder would visit the home and see for themselves the conditions of the dogs, this is no longer true and the government has no recourse against these companies who are selling directly to the public.

You say, "A while ago I read the requirements for Kennels, and I was appalled. First and foremost in my mind, VERY FEW PUPPIES IF ANY, should be raised outside in kennels. It is poppycock. Dogs are in the main part destined to live in residential homes, and that is exactly where they should be brought up." You make it sound like a small breeder would have to put their dogs into a kennel, this just isn't true, but this type of propaganda has been passed before when making state laws, you can still have your dogs live with you in a family setting and in fact, that's what the HSUS tells pet buyers to look for. I urge all you breeders to get involved with the making of bills, you have great information on what would help protect the small breeder.


Gail I've been trying to educate the buying public for a long time now, I can't even get people to visit the homes of the people they buy their dogs from. One of the reasons I link the YTCA website is because at least they have breeders in most states and people can visit the homes, this is so important. If we love out pets we should be sure that their "parents" are being property treated.

Where did you read the term 4 breeding bitches? If it's from the actual bill the definition of a breeding bitch should be given. If it's from another site, the number may be wrong.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Gail, I believe the commercial breeders lobby is using reputable breeders to pass on misinformation. So many of them just pass the email along without fully understanding what it says, and of course if someone who you respect passes it along, well you believe it's all true. Do you at least trust the ASPCA? Have you read what they say about the law?


This whole thing was started because of a commercial breeding facility called "Purebred Breeders, LLC". They have over 800 websites with different names and sell over 20,000 puppies a year. People were buying sick dying puppies and the Humane society got involved in a lawsuit with them. Purebred Breeders LLC is worse than the Hunte corporation who use to buy from independent dog breeders who at least had to be USDA inspected. It used to be thought that pet buyers who bought directly from a breeder would visit the home and see for themselves the conditions of the dogs, this is no longer true and the government has no recourse against these companies who are selling directly to the public.

You say, "A while ago I read the requirements for Kennels, and I was appalled. First and foremost in my mind, VERY FEW PUPPIES IF ANY, should be raised outside in kennels. It is poppycock. Dogs are in the main part destined to live in residential homes, and that is exactly where they should be brought up." You make it sound like a small breeder would have to put their dogs into a kennel, this just isn't true, but this type of propaganda has been passed before when making state laws, you can still have your dogs live with you in a family setting and in fact, that's what the HSUS tells pet buyers to look for. I urge all you breeders to get involved with the making of bills, you have great information on what would help protect the small breeder.


Gail I've been trying to educate the buying public for a long time now, I can't even get people to visit the homes of the people they buy their dogs from. One of the reasons I link the YTCA website is because at least they have breeders in most states and people can visit the homes, this is so important. If we love out pets we should be sure that their "parents" are being property treated.

Where did you read the term 4 breeding bitches? If it's from the actual bill the definition of a breeding bitch should be given. If it's from another site, the number may be wrong.

In the bill, there is no definiton of breeding bitches!. The number is NOT WRONG, and it is baldly stated in the bill numerous times.l

Please post the link to the USDA licensing requirement, that shows breeding dogs can be kept in a home environment

Nancy you have not answered my question; HAVE you READ the LOSEY submission?

[gemy]

Where did you read the term 4 breeding bitches? If it's from the actual bill the definition of a breeding bitch should be given. If it's from another site, the number may be wrong.[/QUOTE]


Here you go; just one mention of it in The Regulation

Finally, as noted previously, we are

proposing to amend § 2.1(a)(3)(iii) to

increase from three to four the number

of breeding female dogs, cats, and/or

small exotic or wild mammals that a

person may maintain on his or her

premises and be exempt from licensing

and inspection requirements.