Proposed new aphis regulation

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by gemy

TeeHeee; Try 30 below up Lake Superior way. We will have to get you a Canada Goose jacket!. Plus mukalucks. Really warm sweaters for the pups. Dressing for winter is a serious business up there. Balaclavas, really really warm mittens, silk longjohns, etc. Good Lord...I will look like the Michelin Tire Man!!!
All homes will have an extra generator up there - for when the power goes out. Best to get a wood burning furnace too. I have the generator for hurricanes! I can bring that!!!
We will need a four wheel drive car, plus a Skidoo. Have the 4 wheel drive vehicle...have no clue what a Skidoo even is! Also everyone stocks up on provisions before the snow flies. But you will see awesome Northern Lights, and there is Cell service and internet...lol lol Also someone to plow the driveway too. Sounds absolutely awsome!!!
Now nobody mows 100 acres. You mow about 5 or so. The extra land can be training ground for the Blackies!. Great!! That will work!!! Fence in about an acre of land. I want an indoor/outdoor doggy pool. Plus an indoor training arena. Probably need to be propane heated. We are going to have to upgrade the modest home you mentioned in the first email!!
The Blackies will keep the coyotes away, and btw hunting rifles, shot guns are allowed up in the Great White NOrth. Them things are for the Bears! And I don't want to lose any Blackies to the Bear population. Wolves they take on, but then again I wouldn't go out of my way to test that theory. I have the shotguns and hunting rifles covered!!!
Now spring/fall, summer that land shines just so. Plenty of hiking trails, spectacular vistas every kilometer or so along the highway.

You'd want a garden for veges n such. They don't do a whole lot of fresh produce up there. UH_OH....we are in trouble here....unless YOU do crops!
I've lived up in the North for a time; I did love it so. There are old fashioned kinds of things to do, quilting bees, knitting circles, baking, cooking, n freezing things. Having a hobby for the dark and cold days of winter is a godsend. It is also why you need an indoor training arena that is heated. So the pups can get good exercise during the hellish cold days. I hand sew quilts....I do minimal crochet.....baking and cooking are my majors, canning and preserving are dooable for me....I love Scrabble and poker....AND BLACKJACK!!! And I will gamble and place a bet on ANYTHING that moves! I AM GETTING EXCITED!!!
Of course there is land much nearer than Lake Superior; but there is winter here, no doubt about it.

I retire next year!!! I may very well be on my way!!! Sounds absolutely fantastic....how are the tornadoes and hurricanes up there????

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

This isn't true either. There have been many state laws regarding kennel conditions that have been passed recently and the AKC has been against every single one of them. Most pet owners don't bother to even register their dogs with the AKC, they say, "I'm not breeding or showing, so therefore I have no interest in registering my dog. The AKC is governed by breeders, not pet owners. I would be against this bill if it did the things some say it would do. I'm an advocate for the small breeder, but the type of breeder I’m for doesn’t sell her dogs to people sight unseen. This same thing has happened with every state law that has been passed as well, breeders are in an uproar and say it will do things that it doesn't do. This will only affect those breeders who sell over a website, it will not affect those breeders who sell from their homes. May I ask you, what’s wrong with these breeders having a license? That’s the thing that would change, they would need a license.

I do beleive all breeders should be licensed by some governing agency, hopefully one that cane clear write and apply fair critically thought out wording for their regulations.
I do NOT beleice the USDA should be the licensing governing agency.

I can only restate my concerns of inhome breeders being forced as the Beers were to having a separate expensive kennel from their home as well buyer issues with teavel to obtain a pup etc.

Hiwever I highly recomecleanerH2o X5 steam mop and cleaner my aon gas sever allergies to mold and dust mites so we sterilize and "defilrh" all our surfaces...I steam my table and leather sofa once a week.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Well, we've all got to give up some things we now enjoy about the way it is in order to try to help dogs stacked in filthy pens in astounding numbers and totally ignored except for their reproductive prowess. I'll be willing to pay more taxes, wait to get a dog from a breeder, have a less perfect dog for way more money - whatever as we just can't keep letting the forgotten ones keep on being the last ones to get what they want or need. If the dog-buying public is going to have to get slammed and it results in fewer breeders operating, is that a price we just can't pay? Or is it all just hopeless and we have to accept the status quo? And live with the horror stories and keep our mouths shut because no one will accept less freedom or rights or sales or oversight than exist now?

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

This is intended to regulate those internet sites with one click shopping. You've seen sites with PayPal or Master card, etc.? Reputable breeders don’t place their dogs that way. The commercial breeders who sell that way have no regulations, they need no licensing and so their dogs are treated in the most inhumane ways. They are fighting this because they don’t want to be inspected, and they also don’t want anyone to know how many dogs they are selling. Most people who start a business, need some type of license, why should a dog breeder not have a license?

This has been a very informative discussion. I'm glad that the commercial breeders who are using the loophole to sell dogs (while having horrible conditions) will be held accountable.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I retire next year!!! I may very well be on my way!!! Sounds absolutely fantastic....how are the tornadoes and hurricanes up there????

Very Rare events. Last hurricane to hit Ontario was Hurricane Hazel, back in the 50's I think.

The skidoo is for when you are snowed in. Can be the only way you can make it into the nearest store.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I know that every time a government program of any kind, federal or state - of any sweeping nature - is enacted, there are always horror stories of someone or several families or business caught up in the bureaucratic miasma of zealotry or unintended consequences, victims of progress for the whole. When Medicare was enacted, good doctors with full practices of elderly people who depended on them retired, rather than be "told what to do by some bureaucrat". When a large corporation like Texas Instruments is able to obtain the rights to the land where its huge campus lays and builds its mighty complex that has employed so many over the years and built lifechanging technology, there were homeowners, businesses and landowners who were financially ruined or horribly disadvantaged. Some people die due to the huge changes and loss they have incurred - hearts and psyches and sensibilities just can't take the hit. When managed care began to take hold and the sweeping changes it brought about were showered down on the medical world, many more were adversely hit so that once again, hospitals and country/city doctors closed their doors due to the strict regulations and inability or lack of desire to change and adhere to the them and decreased fees. Businesses dropped carrying insurance on its personnel. People lost the only hospital their little town had in some cases and no doubt deaths occurred or health adversely affected. When LBJ Freeway land was bought and cleared in D/FW area years back, homes were bought for half-value and businesses closed and families, man old folks hurt forever.

You could say the same about almost any of the sweeping reforms that have affected us - regulations and change hurt people - they do. But in the main, as a whole, the changes overall help more people than they hurt. If you are one of those that is put our of business or suffers the loss of a home or life - the price is the ultimate one. If you are not one of those, you or a family member or society at large most likely was better served in the main by the new law or program.

Back in the 1990's I can remember paying almost $105.00 for a bottle of pain medicine before our insurance changed to a PPO, after which it was $5.00 our-of-pocket. My portion of a hospital bill was several thousand dollars while my private insurance paid the rest. With our PPO, my portion of a similar bill was $298.00. I know Medicare patients had to pay around $2,000.00 up front for total joint surgery in 1998 for our clinic's doctors to perform it - now they pay 20% of around $1500.00 after the surgery - a result of the decreasing of doctors' fees over time and more doctors in the Dallas area accepting Medicare assignment and competition. Yet some practices dropped insurance altogether for their clinic personnel and one of our doctors retired rather than accept such low fees and changes that new laws forced on medical practices.

I would say if the public at large who buys dogs and breeders who sell them are going to be horribly and adversely affected in many cases but there is funding and a way for some puppy milles to be closed and the suffering dogs ultimately helped by a new law, it seems it is a price we are all going to have to pay - and yes, some breeders will lose business or a home - and perhaps a new pet quality dog will routinely cost $4,000.00 or more right away. I think it is a price we are going to have to be willing to pay rather than the status quo, which isn't working for so many sick dogs stacked in cages.

Our Animal Control is understaffed and constantly busy ministering to its full cages of dogs, chart-keeping, filling out forms, answering the phone, updating the website with descriptions, out counseling or enforcing complaints, trying to round up a stray before it bites a child or its elderly owner cries herself sick, washing, feeding, caring for the huge amounts of dogs they constantly have - over 50% of which are big, powerful bully breeds and they take some brave, animal-loving people to humanely handle them for the duration of their stay. I don't see how they can take over more work and I know there will be no bond issue that brings them more personnel or help anytime soon in our area. Our AC seems stretched to the max - anytime you visit the premises they are sorely lacking personnel but the cages full to the max.

I hope that something can be done and by and large the reputable breeders as a whole won't be horribly hurt but it looks like to get anything done for those little forgotten ones, something else is going to have to take place to help the dogs that are not being helped at all now. And of course we can never close all of the puppy mills down but can't we try something else and then have our legislators change bad law with amendment/recensions, etc., as needed?

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gemy

I've been really thinking about this. It is one of the huge benefits of civil even if it is impassioned dialogue.

Bear with me for a moment. It is perhaps another tale to tell of the Emperor's new clothes.

1.) This new regulation is purportedly designed to "catch" those awful puppy millers who sell direct to the public on the internet. Ummmmm

2). How will APHIS actually know that someone is selling direct to the public on the internet without a license?

3). In otherwords how do they police it? Will they just wait until a complaint or two or three hundred is made? And then try to track this "person"/entity down.

4) People who are reputable will try to abide by the regulations, people who are not .. Well they just won't abide and find ways n means around it.

Sadly Jillie it is much easier to go "after" folks who are registered ie licensed then those that are not. After all they are on 'your books" so to speak.

What you can do is EDUCATE, then EDUCATE again. Responsible small hobby breeders do have a role to play, that yes is done, one on one, or even here on this forum, for current and future members to read. But we have failed to organize, and gather up $$$ to advertise through print, through TV, through intelligently using the media.

How to we get out a consistent, coherent, message that will move people, that will last in their memory?

I do have some ideas. But where to share them?

I am very concerned that HSUS and PETA and the AFL are pushing this agenda/law/regulation.

I have grave concerns about their true agenda.

Talking about where to take your ideas, in your area don't you have a legislator or two who you can personally meet and take your ideas to? When managed care hit us, I personally feared much about it and knew we'd have many hard legislative battles to fight, so I befriended 2 state congressmen, 2 U. S. Senators and one darn fine lawyer in the State of Texas Attorney General's office. These men and two woman and many of their fine staffers all helped me unbelievably over the years when managed care laws hit us unfairly in some area or an insurance investigator took license with his role and began intimidation. I would ask the insurer's actions be investigated for intimidation and bad faith and send letters to one and all above and then some telling of our plight with an insurance company or misuse of the rules. When I had trouble, the State of Texas knew it. We got legislation changed/rewritten, just my rep and I. Not because of my influence but because it was right and I had other clinics I networked with who joined in with me sometimes. A small but active force can get help. When others abandoned me at times, I alone visited BC/BS of Texas Medical Director and later we became sort of friends. Our clinic didn't fold and we used the often "bad" managed care rules often to obtain rather large penalty payments of over $12,000.00 -$26,000.00 when we were treated shabbily by an insurer. So just because big government seems overwhelming, a single person can get much done when their cause is right and they never give up.

[gemy]

http://saova.org/news/APHIS/SAOVA_Le...PHIS_Final.pdf

[gemy]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Talking about where to take your ideas, in your area don't you have a legislator or two who you can personally meet and take your ideas to? When managed care hit us, I personally feared much about it and knew we'd have many hard legislative battles to fight, so I befriended 2 state congressmen, 2 U. S. Senators and one darn fine lawyer in the State of Texas Attorney General's office. These men and two woman and many of their fine staffers all helped me unbelievably over the years when managed care laws hit us unfairly in some area or an insurance investigator took license with his role and began intimidation. I would ask the insurer's actions be investigated for intimidation and bad faith and send letters to one and all above and then some telling of our plight with an insurance company or misuse of the rules. When I had trouble, the State of Texas knew it. We got legislation changed/rewritten, just my rep and I. Not because of my influence but because it was right and I had other clinics I networked with who joined in with me sometimes. A small but active force can get help. When others abandoned me at times, I alone visited BC/BS of Texas Medical Director and later we became sort of friends. Our clinic didn't fold and we used the often "bad" managed care rules often to obtain rather large penalty payments of over $12,000.00 -$26,000.00 when we were treated shabbily by an insurer. So just because big government seems overwhelming, a single person can get much done when their cause is right and they never give up.

Well as a Canadian any legislator I have is not going to have much influence on USA law making. I think I have done what I can personally to be heard and to show my support for responsible breeders south of the border.

We shall see if this regulation passes, and what after five years or so is the impact.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well as a Canadian any legislator I have is not going to have much influence on USA law making. I think I have done what I can personally to be heard and to show my support for responsible breeders south of the border.

We shall see if this regulation passes, and what after five years or so is the impact.

You might see if one can give you entree to talking with the offices of legislators of the border state you most frequently deal with should you get an overly aggressive inspector or problem confront you. I know networking and the value of friendships forged trying to work together surely did help those of us dealing with many of the horrors our Texas Managed Care and Clean Claims laws and workmens' compensation overhaul brought about from years of problems in healthcare and work. comp. We very often started out bitter enemies and through keeping a dialogue open and some give-and-take, worked through what I often thought were insurmountable problems at times. I can't tell you how often I went to bed deeply depressed only to have some colleague of someone I'd never met call to give me the name of a buddy to call for some one-on-one help in one of our Fed/State Agencies. I wrote letters at home nights as my work was too demanding during the day to do it. And then to see the legislative amendments put forth, opened for public comment, sweat those times out, meeting challenges as they arose and finally see the law passed as amended with the bad law rescinded was such a party. And once even the Governor's office sent me a copy of a particular dear piece of signed legislation with his gold-embossed card attached and a little note on it. And I'd only written them a few times and spoken to a couple of aides there. But all the hard work and persistence to work through the bureaucratic red tape and outright administrative/legislative insanity won out for us 99% of the time. And we even had problems to deal with involving a sister company of BC/BS of Illinois in the country of Columbia and an international nightmare of twisted issues there involving a domestic abuse injury case of a Columbian VIP's wife during a time of serious political stress involving that country.