Proposed new aphis regulation

[gemy]

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title9-vol1/xml/CFR-2009-title9-vol1-chapI-subchapA.xml
The above link takes you to the AWA act and you will note that SECTION 3.1 (c) is as follows(c)Surfaces--(1) General requirements. The surfaces of housingfacilities--including houses, dens, and other furniture-type fixtures andobjects within the facility--must be constructed in a manner and made ofmaterials that allow them to be readily cleaned and sanitized, or removed orreplaced when worn or soiled. Interior surfaces and any surfaces that come incontact with dogs or cats must:
Now from that FAQby APHIS: Please note what happens if the breeder allows her animals free run of the entire house. Most homes by their very definition do not have surfaces that can be "sanitized".
If, however, a dogbreeder allows their dogs to have
free run of the entirehouse, APHIS will assess whether
the home can houseanimals within the health and
humane standardscontemplated by the AWA. If the
breeder has a kennelor cages that the dogs can stay
in inside the homethat meet AWA standards, we would
consider that compliance with the primary

[gemy]

For those of you who don’t get the Fox Business channel but do get the Fox News Channel on your cable system, we have just learned that they will be airing the segment at 12:50 p.m. (EST) on the Fox News Channel and then again back on Fox Business at 4:48pm.

This morning starting at 11:54 a.m. and then at 1:13 p.m. (EST) the Fox Business Network, a national cable network, is scheduled to do a series of live news segments throughout the day on the AKC Petition to Protect Responsible Breeders in regards to the USDA/APHIS rule change to the Animal Welfare Act. The segment is slated to air (barring any breaking news interruptions) both sides of the story featuring a Washington DC-area AKC Breeder of Merit participant and a representative from APHIS. Hopefully, you can tune in to watch it.

I don't know if they will rerun it; I got home too late to watch, even if I do get Fox lol. I will try to look it up on my TV guide.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by gemy

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title9-vol1/xml/CFR-2009-title9-vol1-chapI-subchapA.xml
The above link takes you to the AWA act and you will note that SECTION 3.1 (c) is as follows(c)Surfaces--(1) General requirements. The surfaces of housingfacilities--including houses, dens, and other furniture-type fixtures andobjects within the facility--must be constructed in a manner and made ofmaterials that allow them to be readily cleaned and sanitized, or removed orreplaced when worn or soiled. Interior surfaces and any surfaces that come incontact with dogs or cats must:
Now from that FAQby APHIS: Please note what happens if the breeder allows her animals free run of the entire house. Most homes by their very definition do not have surfaces that can be "sanitized".
If, however, a dogbreeder allows their dogs to have
free run of the entirehouse, APHIS will assess whether
the home can houseanimals within the health and
humane standardscontemplated by the AWA. If the
breeder has a kennelor cages that the dogs can stay
in inside the homethat meet AWA standards, we would
consider that compliance with the primary

I don't see the problem with this, it also adds that "or removed or replaced when worn or soiled". I think most people with pets would agree with this. Let’s say you had to sanitize the place because of a parvo breakout in your home, there are products you can use on even carpeting. If you have some surface that can't be cleaned for some reason, you can still replace it. I would think most pet owners have surfaces that can be cleaned. Sanitize doesn't only mean sterilized, it means clean “by removing unwanted filth from it”. I think we have to use some common sense here.

[gemy]

Join in with the AKC; USDA/APHIS Regulations Resource Page

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I don't see the problem with this, it also adds that "or removed or replaced when worn or soiled". I think most people with pets would agree with this. Let’s say you had to sanitize the place because of a parvo breakout in your home, there are products you can use on even carpeting. If you have some surface that can't be cleaned for some reason, you can still replace it. I would think most pet owners have surfaces that can be cleaned. Sanitize doesn't only mean sterilized, it means clean “by removing unwanted filth from it”. I think we have to use some common sense here.

Oh Nancy please post for me where USDA has approved a whole home. And we are using common sense here. I will not remove my kitchen cabinets, nor can I sanitize them, nor my leather furniture in the living room.

Please do more research on what other breeders are saying. I respect and admire your passion for making sure PuppyMills are no more. But this regulation is very poorly worded and thought out for hobby breeders, who want to keep their dogs in their own less than "sanitized" home.

And this little change of Regulation has now gone National. IT is a BIG DEAL.

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I don't see the problem with this, it also adds that "or removed or replaced when worn or soiled". I think most people with pets would agree with this. Let’s say you had to sanitize the place because of a parvo breakout in your home, there are products you can use on even carpeting. If you have some surface that can't be cleaned for some reason, you can still replace it. I would think most pet owners have surfaces that can be cleaned. Sanitize doesn't only mean sterilized, it means clean “by removing unwanted filth from it”. I think we have to use some common sense here.

Nancy, these new rules will be enforced by government people. These tend to be very rigid people who have their rule book and need every situation to fit the book. Government bureaucracy doesn't allow for common sense. I'm afraid of these people for they are not at all troubled about ruining someone's life over a technicality they can't think their way through. We have to do a better job educating the public and stopping the bad guys without destroying the good ones.

[concretegurl]

Just incase this goes through I wanted to sharw Apple Cider Vinegar kills parvo and a UVC spectrum light wand sterilizes everything...perhaps this is a solution if the petitioñ fails.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I don't see the problem with this, it also adds that "or removed or replaced when worn or soiled". I think most people with pets would agree with this. Let’s say you had to sanitize the place because of a parvo breakout in your home, there are products you can use on even carpeting. If you have some surface that can't be cleaned for some reason, you can still replace it. I would think most pet owners have surfaces that can be cleaned. Sanitize doesn't only mean sterilized, it means clean “by removing unwanted filth from it”. I think we have to use some common sense here.

Really where does that definition come from?

Here is what the act says in terms of sanitization


(3)Hard surfaces of primary enclosures and food and water receptacles must besanitized using one of the following methods:
(i)Live steam under pressure;
(ii)Washing with hot water (at least 180 deg.F (82.2 deg.C)) and soap or detergent,as with a mechanical cage washer; or
(iii) Washing all soiled surfaces with appropriate detergent solutionsand disinfectants, or by using a combination detergent/disinfectant productthat accomplishes the same purpose, with a thorough cleaning of the surfaces toremove organic material, so as to remove all organic material and mineralbuildup, and to provide sanitization followed by a clean water rinse.

So Nancy would u like to wash your leather furniture table n chairs under this method?

I am not only using common sense I am reading the rules!. You want to wash and rinse your table lamps, drapes et al according to this regulation?

Many surfaces in a family home can't be cleaned to these standards!

[gemy]

I am a Canadian, not immediately effected by this "new" proposed regulation; but I AM a concerned, intelligent and critical thinker, and am most concerned with the preservation and improvement of the purebred dog.

Why am I so passionate and dedicated to this? I don't breed Yorkies, I don't sell anything at all on this forum! I never have and I never will.

This regulation is "ill advised", and will not do one whit to propogate well bred dogs. What-ever it "might" do is going to be at the cost of dedicated and commited hobby breeders.

I do say that you can't and shouldn't do this at the cost of reputable small breeders "going away from breeding".

In the "analysis" APHIS provided, they said approximately 1500 breeders will be affected by this New Regulation,. Really? Ummm 1500... Now let me see, there are 50 States I believe. Ummmm Lets divide 1500 by 50 awh really only 30 "breeders" effected in each State? Suspect Numbers.

So let us come at this in a different number way. Approximately depending on what source you look at anywhere from 15-20% of US and Canada own dogs. US population is ~$300 Million and Canada ~$30 Million. 20%=69Million folks own dogs. Do you really think that there are only 1500 breeders to support a demand for purebred dogs with this kind of ownership numbers? Let us say that in any given year 2% of those dog owners are looking to purchase..... that is 1,368,00 dogs a year. Do you truly think only 1500 breeders are sourcing this demand? Even if you allocate 1Million dogs to the commercial breeders that leaves a whole lot of dogs being bred by non commercial breeders.

As a former professional accountant this does not pass the "sniff" test for me.

[gemy]

http://www.englishshepherds.net/arti...ntsReAPHIS.pdf

Please see the attached article.

[Yorkiemom1]

Gail, thanks again for your diligence in this area....people that are NOT breeders, can not see the full impact this Federal Bill will have.....there are sooooo many separate sections that small hobby breeders or dog fanciers are going to suffer from, and people that are not actively involved in the "workings" of breeding, just can not understand because they do not know all the details utilized in breeding. My computer skills are horrific, so if you dont mind, I will forward to you, any information, links, etc that are related to this legislation, and you can implement it in your attempts to explain how dangerous to reputable breeders passage of this bill will be. Thank goodness it went National...I was at work and missed it....I am working with many breed clubs, helping to lobby against this Bill....Anyone that breeds dogs or shows dogs KNOWS this Bill will have no effect on the very people they are trying to irradicate, puppy mills......they are instead going to irradicate the very people that are responsible for providing happy, healthy puppies to people that want one. Of course, anyone that supports this bill will see any arguments we put forth, as propaganda or biased, inaccurate information...I will send you information that is NOT opinion, these are arguments of fact, and speak for themselves. I do think our energy and diligence can be better utilized on a National level, directly with the law makers. I have contacted Sean Hannity on Fox News and am working that area.....I have worked with him in the past...I will be in touch with you...thank you again for your efforts, and thank you for helping ME with this stupid computer and posting links, etc....

[concretegurl]

I think even as a dog iwner strictly the AKC endorcing petitioning against this is very telling.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I think even as a dog iwner strictly the AKC endorcing petitioning against this is very telling.

This isn't true either. There have been many state laws regarding kennel conditions that have been passed recently and the AKC has been against every single one of them. Most pet owners don't bother to even register their dogs with the AKC, they say, "I'm not breeding or showing, so therefore I have no interest in registering my dog. The AKC is governed by breeders, not pet owners. I would be against this bill if it did the things some say it would do. I'm an advocate for the small breeder, but the type of breeder I’m for doesn’t sell her dogs to people sight unseen. This same thing has happened with every state law that has been passed as well, breeders are in an uproar and say it will do things that it doesn't do. This will only affect those breeders who sell over a website, it will not affect those breeders who sell from their homes. May I ask you, what’s wrong with these breeders having a license? That’s the thing that would change, they would need a license.

[Yorkiemom1]

If this goes through, I guess I will be spraying all my mahogany end tables, coffee tables, piano, book cases with 180* hot water....dont really know how hot water will work on my mahogany...I have already pulled all the carpet out and have tile and stained concrete....got rid of all upholstery furniture and replaced with leather or wrought iron (as a result of trying to sterilize my home after a puppy buyer brought parvo into my home 10 years ago). Common sense???? from a Government agency????? After Ike hit the area, and the shingles were lifted and peeled back from the roof decking down the entire length on one side of my home, rain was driven into my attic, which flooded, causing the ceiling and then the walls down one side of my home to actually cave in. The appraiser came out....I swear this is true!!...climbed on my roof, PULLED HIS LITTLE APPRAISER BOOK 101 FROM HIS HIP POCKET, AND TOLD ME THE ROOF DID NOT NEED TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE....and this is the halarious part!!!!....NO SHINGLES WERE LAYING ON THE GROUND IN THE YARD!! THEY HAD JUST BEEN PEELED BACK AND COULD BE FOLDED BACK OVER THE AREA AND THEY WOULD BE FINE!!!!!!!!
Do I give ANY government agency ANY credit for any sense or the capability to make any determination that is not spelled out EXACTLY as any given situation presents itself in their little RULES AND REGULATION BOOK 101, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! This is only 1/4 of the problem.....I have a real issue of unannounced visits! I also hold a gun dealers license. This gives the ATF the right to come into my home any time and inspect my home for compliancy....I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THIS AS I CONDUCT MY GUN BUSINESS FROM ONE ROOM IN MY HOME. THAT IS THE ONLY AREA THEY CAN INSPECT, ALONG WITH THE RECORDS OF THE BUSINESS. My babies have run of the majority of my home......I WILL GET OUT OF THIS BUSINESS BEFORE I ALLOW FEDERAL DISPATCHERS TO RUN RAMPANT ALL OVER MY HOME, INSPECTING ANY AREA WHERE MY DOGS ARE ALLOWED TO RUN, BRINGING IN GOD ONLY KNOW WHAT KIND OF DISEASES ALL OVER THEIR BOOTS, CONTAMINATING MY ENTIRE HOME....NO THANKS!
This has always been my passion...this is NOT how I make my living, because doing this correctly is NOT a money making deal for small breeders, although I must admit, I DO make more than $500.00/year off my puppies, MAYBE MAKING ME A "GREEDER" IN SOME PEOPLES EYES..... All I have ever wanted to do with this, is be able to provide people with healthy, correct Yorkies that dont die of genetic anomolies or diseases. I will NOT allow my home to be stormed by troopers dispatched by ANY government agency, unannounced, who then may just decide to STEAL my dogs under the guise of "non compliant conditions", dispersing them to whomever THEY can peddle them to.....no I will rehome all my dogs, and give up this expensive passion of mine. NO....I will let the rest of you "trust" a government agency to make decisions and determine how they are going to run YOUR homes and daily lives. I will NOT allow the feds to intrude into my life to that degree, just so I can provide healthy puppies to a majority of pet owners that can NOT get past the vision of puppy mills in the woods, and would support a measure that will absolutely do more harm and damage to the WRONG GROUP of people, while having little or not effect on the hated puppy mills! Or I will move to Canada! Gail, how is the real estate market up there????!!!

Originally Posted by gemy

Really where does that definition come from?

Here is what the act says in terms of sanitization


(3)Hard surfaces of primary enclosures and food and water receptacles must besanitized using one of the following methods:
(i)Live steam under pressure;
(ii)Washing with hot water (at least 180 deg.F (82.2 deg.C)) and soap or detergent,as with a mechanical cage washer; or
(iii) Washing all soiled surfaces with appropriate detergent solutionsand disinfectants, or by using a combination detergent/disinfectant productthat accomplishes the same purpose, with a thorough cleaning of the surfaces toremove organic material, so as to remove all organic material and mineralbuildup, and to provide sanitization followed by a clean water rinse.

So Nancy would u like to wash your leather furniture table n chairs under this method?

I am not only using common sense I am reading the rules!. You want to wash and rinse your table lamps, drapes et al according to this regulation?

Many surfaces in a family home can't be cleaned to these standards!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

If this goes through, I guess I will be spraying all my mahogany end tables, coffee tables, piano, book cases with 180* hot water....dont really know how hot water will work on my mahogany...I have already pulled all the carpet out and have tile and stained concrete....got rid of all upholstery furniture and replaced with leather or wrought iron (as a result of trying to sterilize my home after a puppy buyer brought parvo into my home 10 years ago). Common sense???? from a Government agency????? After Ike hit the area, and the shingles were lifted and peeled back from the roof decking down the entire length on one side of my home, rain was driven into my attic, which flooded, causing the ceiling and then the walls down one side of my home to actually cave in. The appraiser came out....I swear this is true!!...climbed on my roof, PULLED HIS LITTLE APPRAISER BOOK 101 FROM HIS HIP POCKET, AND TOLD ME THE ROOF DID NOT NEED TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE....and this is the halarious part!!!!....NO SHINGLES WERE LAYING ON THE GROUND IN THE YARD!! THEY HAD JUST BEEN PEELED BACK AND COULD BE FOLDED BACK OVER THE AREA AND THEY WOULD BE FINE!!!!!!!!
Do I give ANY government agency ANY credit for any sense or the capability to make any determination that is not spelled out EXACTLY as any given situation presents itself in their little RULES AND REGULATION BOOK 101, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! This is only 1/4 of the problem.....I have a real issue of unannounced visits! I also hold a gun dealers license. This gives the ATF the right to come into my home any time and inspect my home for compliancy....I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THIS AS I CONDUCT MY GUN BUSINESS FROM ONE ROOM IN MY HOME. THAT IS THE ONLY AREA THEY CAN INSPECT, ALONG WITH THE RECORDS OF THE BUSINESS. My babies have run of the majority of my home......I WILL GET OUT OF THIS BUSINESS BEFORE I ALLOW FEDERAL DISPATCHERS TO RUN RAMPANT ALL OVER MY HOME, INSPECTING ANY AREA WHERE MY DOGS ARE ALLOWED TO RUN, BRINGING IN GOD ONLY KNOW WHAT KIND OF DISEASES ALL OVER THEIR BOOTS, CONTAMINATING MY ENTIRE HOME....NO THANKS!
This has always been my passion...this is NOT how I make my living, because doing this correctly is NOT a money making deal for small breeders, although I must admit, I DO make more than $500.00/year off my puppies, MAYBE MAKING ME A "GREEDER" IN SOME PEOPLES EYES..... All I have ever wanted to do with this, is be able to provide people with healthy, correct Yorkies that dont die of genetic anomolies or diseases. I will NOT allow my home to be stormed by troopers dispatched by ANY government agency, unannounced, who then may just decide to STEAL my dogs under the guise of "non compliant conditions", dispersing them to whomever THEY can peddle them to.....no I will rehome all my dogs, and give up this expensive passion of mine. NO....I will let the rest of you "trust" a government agency to make decisions and determine how they are going to run YOUR homes and daily lives. I will NOT allow the feds to intrude into my life to that degree, just so I can provide healthy puppies to a majority of pet owners that can NOT get past the vision of puppy mills in the woods, and would support a measure that will absolutely do more harm and damage to the WRONG GROUP of people, while having little or not effect on the hated puppy mills! Or I will move to Canada! Gail, how is the real estate market up there????!!!

I really don't think this is true, and if it were, couldn't you just meet your clients in person instead of selling from a website and then you won't have to be licensed.