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04-14-2017, 01:02 PM | #31 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
| This is a great discussion! Love that about YT! I know the whole "dogs ancestors" only ate raw and no corn cobs -- but I can attest that my highly domesticated Diva turned her nose up to the road kill she had access to I do research for a living and did not significantly fall of the fence either way on this. I do understand why the hospital that has very vulnerable immune compromised patients has strong feelings a out this issue. Super awesome information in this whole discussion. I watched the film but was frankly not impressed with it -- too preachy for me, it does give me more insight. May try some U-Stew sometime !!!!!!
__________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car |
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04-17-2017, 04:20 PM | #32 |
Don't Litter Spay&Neuter Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal
Posts: 9,874
| I didn't read every post but skimmed through it (will do when I get more time, right now they're waiting for me to take them out)...my furries eat Primal raw food. If they got sick, I never noticed it...honestly, they got more tummy troubles when they were on kibble & canned food. From my understanding, dogs do not get sick from salmonella or listeria from eating raw food bc they have very short digestive tracts. The food doesn't stay long enough in their digestive system, for them to get sick. I understand that raw is not for everyone & every dog is different. But my doggies are doing great & that's all that matters. Wish I can give them raw meaty bones to chew on, but I'm still not there yet! (I've been saying this for over 2 yrs now LOL.)
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04-17-2017, 07:03 PM | #33 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
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__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
04-18-2017, 08:09 AM | #34 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Canada
Posts: 1,903
| I also love reading this discussion as well! A few years ago, I discovered that grain-free and feeding raw has become the latest and greatest in dog diets. I did a little bit of reading on that when I first got Scottie and found it interesting to read about the pros/cons of both feeding raw and kibble. I would agree that kibble probably isn't the healthiest, as it is processed. But as with any 'new' trends, I wouldn't doubt that feeding raw may have other health implications too. I guess time will tell. For years, dogs have lived healthy lives on kibble. It'll be interesting to know if dogs will live longer healthier lives on raw. I'm also curious to know what vets are taught in school on the topic of nutrition. A while back, I read somewhere that brands such as Royal Canine and Hills, lams, and Purina sponsor a lot of the veterinary education programs / research etc, so vets will always promote these brands. Apparently, there are kickbacks from dog food companies to vet schools. It'd be interesting to know how true this is.
__________________ ~ laughter is an instant vacation ~ https://scottieandcasie.com/ :: Custom Pet Portrait Paintings |
04-18-2017, 08:22 AM | #35 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
Posts: 3,648
| Quote:
Listeria infections are less common in dogs, but they do occur, especially if the dog has a compromised immune system: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...40638716661381 And even if a dog doesn't show symptoms, it can still pass these bacteria on to humans if they are in close contact. Last edited by pstinard; 04-18-2017 at 08:26 AM. | |
04-18-2017, 09:52 AM | #36 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| Quote:
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
04-20-2017, 02:26 PM | #37 |
Don't Litter Spay&Neuter Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal
Posts: 9,874
| Ok, maybe I should have worded it different, I see where I made a mistake: From my understanding, dogs do not get sick from salmonella or listeria from eating raw food bc they have very short digestive tracts. The food doesn't stay long enough in their digestive system, for them to get sick. Yes, dogs can get sick from salmonella or listeria. Here's a great read on raw myths & bacteria: Myths About Raw: Will the bacteria in raw meat hurt my dog? Raw food is actually not a 'trend' but it's been around longer than kibble....kibble is only about 100 yrs old? People back in history have been feeding left over & cuts of meat to dogs that we humans do not consume, like hearts, brains, testicals, eyeballs (LOL all the gross stuff) etc. I've seen dogs here get loose & they're eating a fresh bunny they just caught!
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04-21-2017, 01:58 AM | #38 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
Yes, RC/Hills/Iams etc are huge financial sponsors of vet schools and student programs. They conduct themselves just like how big pharma does with medical students...same thing, same shady practices in terms of paying for stuff and ingratiating themselves when they are students. We had the same thing in nursing school...as did our friends who were in medical school, PT school, dental...you name it. So yeah, I agree that it's very hard to trust a vet who promotes RC or Hills, for me.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
04-21-2017, 02:03 AM | #39 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
Look at Dodd's and Schultz's stuff and you'll find it all there This is why for so long, so many of us have said over and over - no need to vax your dog for dist/parv after age 7 or so. It's precisely bc of the DOI data that clearly reports DOI is 7yrs+ --> lifetime.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
04-21-2017, 05:17 AM | #40 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
Posts: 3,648
| Since this thread has turned into an attack on veterinary science, Hills, and Royal Canin (all life-savers, I might add), I'm out of here. I'm done with posts on nutrition, vaccinations, coat color, science, etc. People will believe what they want to believe, so my input is clearly no longer needed nor desired. It's tiring and disappointing, and seems a waste of time. I'm stepping away from Yorkietalk for a while. Thanks. |
04-21-2017, 09:25 AM | #41 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| Quote:
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
04-21-2017, 09:50 AM | #42 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| Quote:
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
04-21-2017, 10:34 AM | #43 |
Don't Litter Spay&Neuter Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal
Posts: 9,874
| Actual research? I believe she does her work to benefit all dogs, cats, horses, all animals...All Dr. Dodds does is research...she has done & continue to do tremendous work on thyroid disease in animals, esp dogs. Hemopet is her company, a blood bank, for blood transfusions in dogs. Also, Hemolife is a full service veterinary laboratory diagnostic program & it specializes in thyroid testing. To discredit Dr. Dodds (or any other holistic vets & homeopathic doctors) just because for whatever reason some of you have, imho, is being closed minded.
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04-21-2017, 10:50 AM | #44 |
Don't Litter Spay&Neuter Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal
Posts: 9,874
| I think Phil would enjoy this? They are doing a lot of research, on raw & fresh whole foods for dogs...here's one that planet paws on fb posted. It has a lot of charts & scientific language that I don't understand but the 'Results' are clear & understandable to me. https://peerj.com/articles/3019/ Background Much of the recent research in companion animal nutrition has focussed on understanding the role of diet on faecal microbiota composition. To date, diet-induced changes in faecal microbiota observed in humans and rodents have been extrapolated to pets in spite of their very different dietary and metabolic requirements. This lack of direct evidence means that the mechanisms by which microbiota influences health in dogs are poorly understood. We hypothesised that changes in faecal microbiota correlate with physiological parameters including apparent macronutrient digestibility. Methods Fifteen adult dogs were assigned to two diet groups, exclusively fed either a premium kibbled diet (kibble; K; n = 8) or a raw red meat diet (meat; M; n = 7) for nine weeks. Apparent digestibility of macronutrients (protein, fat, gross energy and dry matter), faecal weight, faecal health scores, faecal VFA concentrations and faecal microbial composition were determined. Datasets were integrated using mixOmics in R. Results Faecal weight and VFA levels were lower and the apparent digestibility of protein and energy were higher in dogs on the meat diet. Diet significantly affected 27 microbial families and 53 genera in the faeces. In particular, the abundances of Bacteriodes, Prevotella, Peptostreptococcus and Faecalibacterium were lower in dogs fed the meat diet, whereas Fusobacterium, Lactobacillus and Clostridium were all more abundant. Discussion Our results show clear associations of specific microbial taxa with diet composition. For example, Clostridiaceae, Erysipelotrichaceae and Bacteroidaceae were highly correlated to parameters such as protein and fat digestibility in the dog. By understanding the relationship between faecal microbiota and physiological parameters we will gain better insights into the effects of diet on the nutrition of our pets. Click on link above to see whole peer-reviewed journal.
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04-21-2017, 11:49 AM | #45 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Canada
Posts: 1,903
| I'd hate for those who are 'for' certain brands of dog kibble to be offended by those who are 'for' raw diets. I think this discussion is very interesting - especially to hear both sides. And, I do believe through skeptics and questioning is how we can learn more. That's the one thing if not anything they teach in school, no matter what level of education. So...let's not all get too defensive! I agree with you mimimomo, "Raw food is actually not a 'trend' but it's been around longer than kibble". Haha.. Through skimming through a bit of history, Kibble was originally produced as a source of convenience and then as a way to cut costs, and then more research was done later on to make sure it was healthy for the dogs too. Right now with the wave of going back to raw diet, I think it stems from human's desires to be more conscious about our own health and the ways of a Paleo unprocessed healthy diet. We're so fortunate now that we don't need to eat out of cans to survive anymore! And agreed, Wylie's Mom, it's sad that the fact of the reality is that most large institutions are sponsored by the large corporate companies. Behind the scenes, a lot of the time it goes back to money. The people within that system, sometimes are never aware.
__________________ ~ laughter is an instant vacation ~ https://scottieandcasie.com/ :: Custom Pet Portrait Paintings |
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