Pet Fooled. Great documentary for all pet owners

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Apparently vets get one class about nutrition and that is it. Amazing, isn't it...? They come out of school knowing almost nothing, relatively. It's kinda shocking...and most def disappointing.

Yes, RC/Hills/Iams etc are huge financial sponsors of vet schools and student programs. They conduct themselves just like how big pharma does with medical students...same thing, same shady practices in terms of paying for stuff and ingratiating themselves when they are students. We had the same thing in nursing school...as did our friends who were in medical school, PT school, dental...you name it.

So yeah, I agree that it's very hard to trust a vet who promotes RC or Hills, for me.

The financial sponsorship is good public relations and I'm sure good for tax write-offs. It is hard to draw a definitive line between contributing to pet health, good business practice, and ingratiating themselves with future health care givers.

[canana]

Originally Posted by Britster

Yep. I went to a vet who told me I needed to go on to a "quality food" like Iams, Purina or Science Diet and get off of the grain-free food that I was feeding. This was our old vet because naturally I did not go back. There was no discussion whatsoever. He just shut down my questions. He wasn't trying to *sell* me the food for his own profit, just telling me bottom line, it's what I should be feeding. I'm not even saying SD, Purina, etc, are terrible to feed. Sometimes they can be great choices depending on the pet. I even feed Purina Beyond sometimes when I need food quickly, etc. But to blindly state these foods are superior is what irks me.

My theory is just that it's what "works" (but isn't necessarily what's best). They don't have time to research every food out there (understandably) so they go with the brands that they are taught about in school and have a fairly decent track record. If they go and recommend... say, Orijen, to a client and then the dog gets sick, the owner is going to go and blame the vet.

My current vet is absolutely amazing. They are a bit of both -- they do some holistic and conventional. They believe combing the two can be extremely helpful in our pets. They look at the body as a whole to determine the underlying issues that are causing the problems and eliminate symptoms before throwing them on an RX food or medications that MAY not be needed (of course, sometimes they are, and they gladly will do what is best for your pet).

My vet will have a personal conversation with me regarding Jackson and take the time to listen to any concerns I may have or questions that are reasonable (I wouldn't sit there and take up all of her time lol) but she never makes me feel like a burden like vets in the past have. I no longer feel forced into anything (i.e. prior vets would just be like "oh he needs x, y, z, for sure, so I'm going to go and grab the vaccines and get them ready" and then I would be kind of sitting there like ... uhh, okay (I'm not a confrontational person so I would just be like, okay). And if I tried to be like "oh, what's this one for?" they kind of blow me off and just say he needs it. I went through... 3 vets prior to finding the perfect one because they were all pushy with one thing or another.

I do think vets get a bad rep on the internet and it's not deserved. Majority of vets are not in it for the money or greedy people. And I don't think the majority of them mean any harm. I believe it to be a combination of not wanting to change, not keeping up with latest research, maybe ignorance or looking at things one-sided or with blinders on.

I've chilled out a lot on my views. I used to be very anti-SD, RC, Purina, IAMS, you name it. *I* was one of those with my blinders on, lol, and couldn't see past an ingredient list on the back of a bag when it's about sooo much more than that and I do realize that now. Do I tend to lean towards the more 'natural' 'holistic' (I don't even like those words lol) approach? Yeah, probably. But I also appreciate those who maybe don't agree with me. I've gotten to the point where I'm very... feed your dog what you're comfortable feeding your dog. As long as it's in good shape, not dying from it, and has good stools and solid bloodwork... I'd say you're probably doing alright.

I'm the exact same if anyone tries to 'sell' me one brand over another and telling me it's the best. It sounds like you have an amazing vet! I looked into holistic+conventional vets in my area, they're generally quite a bit more expensive. Did you find the same in your area? I guess maybe it's the training or the people they're targeting.

Your last comment, is spot on!

[Britster]

Originally Posted by canana

I'm the exact same if anyone tries to 'sell' me one brand over another and telling me it's the best. It sounds like you have an amazing vet! I looked into holistic+conventional vets in my area, they're generally quite a bit more expensive. Did you find the same in your area? I guess maybe it's the training or the people they're targeting.

Your last comment, is spot on!

Honestly, nope! I thought they would be a lot more expensive too. But I compared to all our previous vet bills (I keep them all in a folder, lol) and in certain things it's even a bit less expensive (very small differences- like the prior vet's exam fee was $64... new (better one IMO) is $56). The area I live in seems to be expensive in general for vet care.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Britster

Honestly, nope! I thought they would be a lot more expensive too. But I compared to all our previous vet bills (I keep them all in a folder, lol) and in certain things it's even a bit less expensive (very small differences- like the prior vet's exam fee was $64... new (better one IMO) is $56). The area I live in seems to be expensive in general for vet care.

I think Maryland in general is an expensive state. I got the estimate for Penny's spay and it was a bit over $400 and that's with out blood work because we just did it. When Sammy was alive and we did dentals and bump removal on him and Callie total it was $1,000.

[Doodlebug]

This was really interesting reading. I was just in two pet shops where the sales person was telling me how good a raw diet was. I asked a lot of questions. Both shops highly recommended Primal frozen so I ended up buying a small bag of frozen chicken "scoops" which are little pieces. I decided to try using them as a treat at first rather than going for a full transition. They loved them. My husband was very much against raw but i just wanted to try it because they had me convinced that it is the healthiest diet. Both shops told me that this food is processed so that there is guaranteed absolutely NO salmonella or Listeria in them. I was wondering if this claim is true.

Today I put a few pieces in their food bowls and they gobbled them up. But I was worried that I would have to practically sterilize the bowls because they had raw food in them. I washed them with soap and hot water and used paper towels to wash and dry the bowls so I could throw them away and not contaminate anything. Am I being too paranoid about cleaning the bowls?

They are eating Acana dry food and weruva canned so I think their diet is pretty good. After reading this thread I don't know if I am ready to go raw. I'm still thinking about what to do.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

This was really interesting reading. I was just in two pet shops where the sales person was telling me how good a raw diet was. I asked a lot of questions. Both shops highly recommended Primal frozen so I ended up buying a small bag of frozen chicken "scoops" which are little pieces. I decided to try using them as a treat at first rather than going for a full transition. They loved them. My husband was very much against raw but i just wanted to try it because they had me convinced that it is the healthiest diet. Both shops told me that this food is processed so that there is guaranteed absolutely NO salmonella or Listeria in them. I was wondering if this claim is true.

Today I put a few pieces in their food bowls and they gobbled them up. But I was worried that I would have to practically sterilize the bowls because they had raw food in them. I washed them with soap and hot water and used paper towels to wash and dry the bowls so I could throw them away and not contaminate anything. Am I being too paranoid about cleaning the bowls?

They are eating Acana dry food and weruva canned so I think their diet is pretty good. After reading this thread I don't know if I am ready to go raw. I'm still thinking about what to do.

I feed Primal & we it!
I use pyrex glass tupperware to store the day's portion of raw food & to thaw it in the fridge. They also eat out of little pyrex glass custard cups. It's best to use stainless steel or glass bowls. I wash it in hot water, use separate sponge.

Primal has great education videos here:
Feeding, Transition and Safety for Raw Dog Food Diets


Primal uses HPP in their poultry products & they also do 3rd party testing on every lot of raw food they make, you can read more about it here:

Feeding, Transition and Safety for Raw Dog Food Diets

[Teegy]

Doodlebug I know a heck of a lot of Yorkie owners who use and love Primal. It's a highly recommended raw food amongst US raw Yorkie feeders so I wouldn't question your choice. I was bowls theoroughly and spray with white vinegar also.
I just converted two of my clients dogs to raw last week and they are so happy about it.

[Doodlebug]

Thanks for posting the videos, they answered all of my questions. I did use a plastic bowl but I know better now. I think for now I am going to give them both foods and see if I/we can get used to raw. Do you give your pups raw bones? How does that work out? The dog in the video stayed in one place and ate it. I'm pretty sure my pups would fight over the same bone and drag it everywhere. Maybe not such a good idea for them?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

This was really interesting reading. I was just in two pet shops where the sales person was telling me how good a raw diet was. I asked a lot of questions. Both shops highly recommended Primal frozen so I ended up buying a small bag of frozen chicken "scoops" which are little pieces. I decided to try using them as a treat at first rather than going for a full transition. They loved them. My husband was very much against raw but i just wanted to try it because they had me convinced that it is the healthiest diet. Both shops told me that this food is processed so that there is guaranteed absolutely NO salmonella or Listeria in them. I was wondering if this claim is true.

Today I put a few pieces in their food bowls and they gobbled them up. But I was worried that I would have to practically sterilize the bowls because they had raw food in them. I washed them with soap and hot water and used paper towels to wash and dry the bowls so I could throw them away and not contaminate anything. Am I being too paranoid about cleaning the bowls?

They are eating Acana dry food and weruva canned so I think their diet is pretty good. After reading this thread I don't know if I am ready to go raw. I'm still thinking about what to do.

In class we leanered a few issues with raw. After the dog has eaten it and they go to get water they can contaminate the water. Also any raw meat at room temp can grow bacteria. It is also not suggested to raw feed if you have older people or anyone with a compromised immune system. I prefer home cooking to raw. On the medical side in my opinion I see issues that could happen.

[Teegy]

Doodlebug, I give the boys lamb or pork necks and pork ribs. I freeze them and let them a one rib for dinner. The necks are frozen too I let them eat a meals worth and stick it back in the freezer. These are all fear mongering statements to try and convince dog owners that raw is bad, but buy our dried corn nuggets sprayed with tasty fats.
When I am cooking a steak for myself I leave my steak out for 6 hours to make sure it comes to room temp because I eat it blue and don't want the inside freezing cold. I'm not dead yet. You use the same common sense handling your dogs rawmeal as you would your own. I kiss my dogs after they've had their dinner with no fear or worry. Again not dead yet.

[Teegy]

My cousin rescued an 8 year old dog on prescription vet food who for years had digestive issues and bad skin issues. She asked me if I had any advice and I said if she was willing to try it, I recommend raw and put her in touch with my supplier. She was blown away by the difference it made in a matter of weeks and switched the cat too. She has young kids and they prepare the meals.
Raw isn't the answer for every dog, but it sure has been for every one that I know who was kibble fed with digestive problems, allergies and skin issues.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Doodlebug, I give the boys lamb or pork necks and pork ribs. I freeze them and let them a one rib for dinner. The necks are frozen too I let them eat a meals worth and stick it back in the freezer. These are all fear mongering statements to try and convince dog owners that raw is bad, but buy our dried corn nuggets sprayed with tasty fats.
When I am cooking a steak for myself I leave my steak out for 6 hours to make sure it comes to room temp because I eat it blue and don't want the inside freezing cold. I'm not dead yet. You use the same common sense handling your dogs rawmeal as you would your own. I kiss my dogs after they've had their dinner with no fear or worry. Again not dead yet.

I hope you are not saying what I said was fear monger because mine are facts learned in vet medicine.

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

In class we leanered a few issues with raw. After the dog has eaten it and they go to get water they can contaminate the water. Also any raw meat at room temp can grow bacteria. It is also not suggested to raw feed if you have older people or anyone with a compromised immune system. I prefer home cooking to raw. On the medical side in my opinion I see issues that could happen.

I see your point too. After the pups ate the little raw pieces I didn’t let them kiss me on the face. I washed my hands after they licked them. Also the post about the nursing homes (?) not letting raw fed dogs visit gave me something to think about. We have a family member who is a paraplegic in a nursing home and I had hoped some day they would be able to visit him. They are too scared right now though.

We went to another pet shop today (Bentleys) and that girl was saying the same thing about the huge benefits of raw. She gave me a free bag of the Primal scoop pieces. So I am going to let them eat them as treats and still give it more thought before I switch to raw. My husband gave me "the look" and said "I don't want them eating raw food".

Here is a BIG problem that I have. I used to read Dr. Fox's column in the newspaper for a long time. He went on and on about how horrible processed kibble is for your dogs. He claimed that dogs are getting sick with cancer and other diseases that are KILLING them from eating processed kibble. Then when the love of my life Daisy got cancer at age 12 and died, I never stopped blaming myself for feeding her the deadly food. It was not tainted, recalled food, but it was kibble. I decided to never get another dog because they don't deserve to die early with a horribly painful disease because of my poor choices (feeding processed kibble). I questioned my fitness to be a good doggie parent. Now I have my two Morkie pups. I am letting Dr. Fox's words about the killer kibble fade from my thoughts now, but i want to do the best thing possible for my pups food wise.

Dr. Fox does have recipes for cooking your own food but i am not a person who likes to cook. But i will consider it if i had a recipe that i knew FOR SURE was complete and balanced and had everything they needed in it. Somehow I think that the kibble helps keep their teeth clean but i dont know if that is true.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions. Thank you.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

I see your point too. After the pups ate the little raw pieces I didn’t let them kiss me on the face. I washed my hands after they licked them. Also the post about the nursing homes (?) not letting raw fed dogs visit gave me something to think about. We have a family member who is a paraplegic in a nursing home and I had hoped some day they would be able to visit him. They are too scared right now though.

We went to another pet shop today (Bentleys) and that girl was saying the same thing about the huge benefits of raw. She gave me a free bag of the Primal scoop pieces. So I am going to let them eat them as treats and still give it more thought before I switch to raw. My husband gave me "the look" and said "I don't want them eating raw food".

Here is a BIG problem that I have. I used to read Dr. Fox's column in the newspaper for a long time. He went on and on about how horrible processed kibble is for your dogs. He claimed that dogs are getting sick with cancer and other diseases that are KILLING them from eating processed kibble. Then when the love of my life Daisy got cancer at age 12 and died, I never stopped blaming myself for feeding her the deadly food. It was not tainted, recalled food, but it was kibble. I decided to never get another dog because they don't deserve to die early with a horribly painful disease because of my poor choices (feeding processed kibble). I questioned my fitness to be a good doggie parent. Now I have my two Morkie pups. I am letting Dr. Fox's words about the killer kibble fade from my thoughts now, but i want to do the best thing possible for my pups food wise.

Dr. Fox does have recipes for cooking your own food but i am not a person who likes to cook. But i will consider it if i had a recipe that i knew FOR SURE was complete and balanced and had everything they needed in it. Somehow I think that the kibble helps keep their teeth clean but i dont know if that is true.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions. Thank you.

There is nothing wrong with kibble thousands of dogs thrive on it and live very long lives. I don't think it's the cause of lots of our dogs illnesses it certainly isn't killing them unless they have a certain illness and are not on the right food. Don't beat yourself up. We all do the best we can. I think homecooking is the best but I can't do it because my older girl has IBD and she never took to home cooking. Balanceit.com has recipes by a vet nutritionist and the supplements you can buy. I would check it out.

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

There is nothing wrong with kibble thousands of dogs thrive on it and live very long lives. I don't think it's the cause of lots of our dogs illnesses it certainly isn't killing them unless they have a certain illness and are not on the right food. Don't beat yourself up. We all do the best we can. I think homecooking is the best but I can't do it because my older girl has IBD and she never took to home cooking. Balanceit.com has recipes by a vet nutritionist and the supplements you can buy. I would check it out.

Thanks Taylor. As you can see I was having a "moment" there when I wrote my last post. I know the kibble isnt all bad. Im going to check out the link, thanks.