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05-04-2012, 11:26 AM | #1 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stroudsburg, PA. USA
Posts: 514
| Liver Shunt at 4 years old??? I thought liver shunt showed when they're puppies I noticed that Nicky trembles slightly some times. So subtle that only I noticed it and I was beginning to feel self-conscious around people who think I tend to over react when it comes to my babies Well...I watch him closely for some time to see if it was because he was cold, sick, nervous, etc. After about 2 months of watching him I realized that none of the above were the reasons why he shakes a bit, so I took him to the vet and explained, best I could, what is it that I see. Blood work was done: No eating (before the first draw of blood) for 12 hours and then I fed him. 2 hours later the second drawn of blood to compare. The vet found something suspicious, which she says could be Liver Shunt But I thought Liver Shunt only showed on puppies We're taking our baby-boy for an ultrasound to rule Liver Shunt in or out. Vet says if positive, Nicky may have to go on meds and special diet, or he may need surgery Our vet said, in a matter of fact way, "see if you can get an appointment today for the ultrasound." I don't want to take it as: it's very important, an emergency, but we don't want to scare you kind of thing Should I take it like that? How dangerous is this Liver shunt and or the surgery? He'll be 4 in August. Should I freak out now or could I do it later? Could it be his Pancrititis acting up? This is very scary for me What do you think? Any advise, suggestions, guidance? I appreciate any. Thanks
__________________ Nini & Nicky (kids) Katt (mommy) |
Welcome Guest! | |
05-04-2012, 12:01 PM | #2 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MA
Posts: 1,252
| Hi I would go get the ultra sound. I am assuming he has a bile levels test. Did the vet give you the pre and post numbers? My Quinn was misdiagnosed as a puppy with MVD ( small multiple shunts) when he was 4 he crashed one night and I did another ultra sound and the shunt was found. He did have the surgery and his numbers are in the normal range now. When are you able to get him in? I would put him on a low protein diet.
__________________ Kerrianne |
05-04-2012, 12:08 PM | #3 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Please do a search here on LS. First unless there is a very experienced ultrasound person in LS assessment, the premiere choice is a scintography to see the liver. Your vet should have given you pre/post Bile acid numbers. If I had one of this readings I'd be off to the Univ of Tennessee to do the pre op work. They are the experts. Also if I'm not mistaken Univ of Penn has a premiere ER hospital. Anything like that is better than a regular vet. And for your info, you should have as a normal course over your puppy's life had blood work done, and BATS done. BATS are recommended to do at 16 wks then six months. I'm serious here, don't waste money go to the experts in the field for ddx'd and treatment/surgery.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
05-04-2012, 12:10 PM | #4 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Sorry not to answer your questions: How dangerous is Liver Shunt? Life threatening Don't freak out but get the best testing as I have advised.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
05-04-2012, 12:12 PM | #5 |
Donating YT 100K Club Member & Top YorkieTalk Poster! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: western KY
Posts: 108,935
| Good advice..My Micah has MVD and is on a low protein food...
__________________ Betty & Micah my love + Yogi |
05-04-2012, 12:58 PM | #6 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stroudsburg, PA. USA
Posts: 514
| Quote:
Nicky was misdiagnosed with IBS when he was a baby Then he was diagnosed with Pancrititis @ vet (A). I was told to have a PLI TLI panel Pancrititis and send test to Cornell in NY to confirm @ vet (B). Then I was told, no, do an X-Ray, it's more accurate @ vet (A). Now, Nicky's under suspicion of Liver Shunt, even though he's almost 4 years old (I thought only babies suffer from this???) He had a Bile Acid test: pre was 1.7 and & post was 97.3 His blood glucose-Baseline value was 80 @ 8:30 am, but vet says she's not worried about that because he was fasting for 12 hours. I'm trying to fit Nicky in as soon as possible for an ultrasound, but the doctor that my vet referred us to is on vacation for 2 weeks, so I asked if I should go with another doctor to speed the test up and I'm waiting for reply from vet. Nicky has been in a low protein diet ever since his last "Pancreatic" episode.
__________________ Nini & Nicky (kids) Katt (mommy) | |
05-04-2012, 01:16 PM | #7 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stroudsburg, PA. USA
Posts: 514
| Wow! Quote:
Thanks Okay, so I need to find an experienced person in this area...I'm in PA so I'm guessing U of Penn would be closer. What is a 'pre op work'? 'ddx'd' ? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the acronyms and I need to get their meanings right so that I can do the proper research on them Yeah, Nicky's had blood work done a few times over the course of his 4 years and that's why I'm confused. This is the first time this shows up In fact, I'm looking at my agenda and an annual checkup in 2009 for him included blood work for liver (I just scribbled it here, but don't have the full notes) Not sure what a BAT is, but everything our vets recommend, we do. So if it's a regular test, we must have had it done. I just don't have everything in memory, but we have lots and lots of vet receipts I would have to go over to see if it was done They have the procedures, tests, meds, etc recorded in them. I will choose experts
__________________ Nini & Nicky (kids) Katt (mommy) | |
05-04-2012, 01:23 PM | #8 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MA
Posts: 1,252
| He always could have had a shunt and as he is getting older it is getting more taxing on his liver and toxins are building up and why you see the shaking. Not all dogs are diagnosed as a puppy. Yes make sure you go to someone who has experience looking for a shunt. That was how my Quinn was misdiagnosed as a puppy a regular ultra sound did not show the shunt ( or vet did not know what he was looking for) and his post bile was in the 80's which usually means MVD. 4 years later the shunt was found with a doplar ultra sound I believe by a vet who had experience looking for them.
__________________ Kerrianne |
05-04-2012, 01:33 PM | #9 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MA
Posts: 1,252
| BAT is bile acid test. The test he had where he had to fast, then draw blood, eat wait two hours. You should have been given two numbers for that test a pre ( before eating) and post after eating.
__________________ Kerrianne |
05-04-2012, 07:09 PM | #10 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: USA
Posts: 506
| First of all - let me tell you how sorry I am to hear of this diagnosis! I would highly recommend as other have getting an internal medicine specialist to do an ultrasound and determine what type of shunt. They can be either inside or outside the liver. At 4 years I'd be very concerned this may not be congenital. It may be an aquired condition, caused by high blood pressure inside the liver itself - and this often creates multiple shunts. Wither congenital or acquired, the location will determine if surgery even is an option. Shunts inside the liver are sometimes not opperable. I'm searching now for some good articles to help you better understand what's going on! Knowledge is a great thing when you're facing something so scary! I'm so so sorry, and pray you can find the answers you need to get your baby healthy again!
__________________ Momma to King Louie Missing my angels California Lily and Benjamin Button, forever in my heart |
05-04-2012, 11:08 PM | #11 | |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Quote:
I hope you are able to get into a specialty hospital soon.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
05-06-2012, 07:04 AM | #12 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stroudsburg, PA. USA
Posts: 514
| Quote:
Yes, thank you for the help, I need it. I'm trying to keep the freakout in check until after I've gotten my baby out of danger I'm trying to find experts in my area, but so far no luck. I'm waiting for tomorrow when everyone's at work to make phone calls, but I worry about asking the fox how safe is the hen house on his watch I'm trying to learn as much as I can about LS, diagnoses and treatments before this Wednesday 9th. This is when our appointment for the ultrasound is to take place. Thank you, again
__________________ Nini & Nicky (kids) Katt (mommy) | |
05-06-2012, 07:26 AM | #13 |
Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory
Posts: 3,447
| You will find a lot of information about liver shunt here on YT. While it is life-threatening if not treated appropriately ~ it certainly isn't a death sentence if the right treatment is provided. Not every dog will need surgery. I don't know which test your vet was using so I can't comment on the numbers - there might be others here who can. But it appears that the bile acid testing has been done based on what you posted. Lucy was diagnosed with mild MVD when she was a puppy, but her problems were mild enough that surgery was not required. Most people who have dealt with it before are not crazy about the Ultrasound - because you are still probably going to need that scintography anyway. Research as best you can and make sure you are dealing with knowledgeable professionals. Teaching animal hospitals nearby are often familiar with LS. Best of luck; keep us posted; and keep your spirits up as well as Nicky's. Don't be overdoing it on the protein like beef, liver, etc.
__________________ Mommy to Lucy, Ringo, and Matthew |
05-06-2012, 09:00 AM | #14 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Illinois USA
Posts: 60
| Have you gotten liver enzymes checked? I would go to a university to get this looked into. Best of luck |
05-06-2012, 09:47 AM | #15 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stroudsburg, PA. USA
Posts: 514
| Quote:
Not this time around I'm looking for U of Penn to see what I can get done
__________________ Nini & Nicky (kids) Katt (mommy) | |
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