Just diagnosed with Microvascular Dysplasia!

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Babz

Could you please tell us where you find this information?

Here you go:

Liver | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

[Wylie's Mom]

I am by no means an expert with liver issues, but I do know some nutritionists do use raw with their liver patients. They often use it in combo with other foods, just fyi.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I am by no means an expert with liver issues, but I do know some nutritionists do use raw with their liver patients. They often use it in combo with other foods, just fyi.

Yes, I too got conformation that I can give Roxy raw chicken (instead of all the other protein sources), but she still needs more carbs than protein....But absolutely NO Organ Meat

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by TLC

Yes, I too got conformation that I can give Roxy raw chicken (instead of all the other protein sources), but she still needs more carbs than protein

Oh that's *great* to hear! Good to see more options for these babies.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Oh that's *great* to hear! Good to see more options for these babies.

I haven't done it though. She is doing well with Cottage Cheese as her protein (for now)

[kalina82]

my yorkie has MVD as well. she is asymptomatic, i just tested on a hunch. I feed her wellness core and nature's variety RAW with absolutely no problems. Plus it didn't increase her post bile acids when tested three months apart. I work with a lot of specialist veterinarians and the internalists said as long as she's asymptomatic i can feed her whatever i want. its not going to hurt. others may not agree but this works for us and i trust my vets completely.

[Yorkieluv]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I am by no means an expert with liver issues, but I do know some nutritionists do use raw with their liver patients. They often use it in combo with other foods, just fyi.

I know one lady specifically who had her liver compromised dog on raw meats/bones/organs, and her ALT was through the roof...Then, she put her dog back on vegetarian food, and her ALT came down significantly and symptoms subsided...

Elevated ALT levels show that there is liver cell death...

If my dog's ALT level were increased a good bit but when on vegetarian food came down, I would say hand's down, I'm going to feed my dog the food that keeps him healthy...

It is *known that meat and organs are more encephalogenic and produce high amounts of ammonia. This is something that Dr. Center has stated herself...

Ammonia(toxin/poison) build-up is one of the main problems in dogs with liver disease/shunt/symptomatic MVD...The more ammonia, the harder the liver has to work and many times it cannot filter the amounts of ammonia that come from eating meat/organs...In these cases, the liver is already sick, why cause it more stress...

I know everyone has different opinions...I have just seen too many cases of liver problems where the people put the dogs back on raw or meat protein foods and see problems again down the road whether it be immediately, 3 months down the road, or 6 months...

If there's even a chance that something could be bad for my liver compromised yorkie, then I'm not going to give it to him. Why take the risk?

Now, again, I'm typing this in regards to *symptomatic* liver compromised dogs, and by symptomatic, I mean even the faintest symptom...

I think that there is a misconception that people mean ONLY low protein...This is not the case...Low protein should be given *while* the dog is symptomatic...Then, it should be increased slowly little by little every 7-10 days so that you can watch for more symptoms. If the dog handles it well, increase again...When a dog is symptomatic, you can reach an excellent level of protein by using proper diet, supplements, lactulose, fiber, etc.

Also, the key is the TYPE of protein...A truly liver compromised dog cannot handle meats/fish/organs like they can vegetarian proteins...Vegetarian proteins produce less ammonia leading to less toxic build-up...

[pea496]

Conner's liver numbers were a little high. He was going to the vet monthly to be tested. They gave me a prescription food and I was limiting his treats and he was also getting liver support pills daily. His numbers went down but still were not within the normal range. I took him off the prescription food and gave him Wellness weight control because of the lower protein. His numbers have come out normal ever since. The vet seems to think he may have eaten something that caused these elevated numbers or it could have been his Frontline (he is now on Revolution). I have kept him on the Wellness (plus it has Glucosamine and Chondroitin).

[Ladymom]

A member on another forum I belong to whose Maltese has asymptomatic MVD recently had a consultation with Dr. Jean Dodds. I will cut and paste the results as she wrote them:

"My dogs are asymptomatic with MVD (shunt ruled out by liver scan and protein c) but Dr. Dodds told me absolutely no raw food for them and no wheat, no corn, no soy and no dairy (use Goats Milk yogurt if they like yogurt). No red meat; chicken ok; turkey not so good; white fish best choice, but no salmon (check mercury levels at gotmercury.org). Supplements are Milk Thistle (marin has liver in it so you may not want it; hepatosupport is a good alternative); SAMe is good for the liver; skip dandelion root even though its good for the liver its also a diuretic, which is not good."

[Yorkieluv]

http://yorkiefoundation.org/purina1.pdf

Here's an excellent article

To the OP, I'm so sorry your baby may have MVD...Is your baby asymptomatic? Picky eating? Vomiting?

[dre1141]

she wasn't showing any symptoms actually we moved to a new state and lexi was due for her shots and I researched a good clinic and the vet suggested it since yorkies are prone and so she's asymptomatic but I'm glad I found out sooner then later that's for sure

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by dre1141

she wasn't showing any symptoms actually we moved to a new state and lexi was due for her shots and I researched a good clinic and the vet suggested it since yorkies are prone and so she's asymptomatic but I'm glad I found out sooner then later that's for sure

What a great vet you found!

According to Dr. Center, all Yorkies should have a bile acids test as a puppy. Unfortunately, most vets aren't knowledgable about the current protocol in diagnosing and treating liver disease.

This is from Page 22 of Dr. Center's seminar handout:


"2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. How old dogs should be at he time of initial testing has not been established. Typically, abnormal bile acids DO NOT normalize as a dog ages ..... " (all emphasis added by Dr. Center)

[dre1141]

Thank you to everyone for your advice and how to approach this. I'm going to bring Zeus in next month to have his testing done just to make sure too--he's a yorkie-jack russell but I don't think it rules him out.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

I know one lady specifically who had her liver compromised dog on raw meats/bones/organs, and her ALT was through the roof...Then, she put her dog back on vegetarian food, and her ALT came down significantly and symptoms subsided...

Elevated ALT levels show that there is liver cell death...

If my dog's ALT level were increased a good bit but when on vegetarian food came down, I would say hand's down, I'm going to feed my dog the food that keeps him healthy...

It is *known that meat and organs are more encephalogenic and produce high amounts of ammonia. This is something that Dr. Center has stated herself...

Ammonia(toxin/poison) build-up is one of the main problems in dogs with liver disease/shunt/symptomatic MVD...The more ammonia, the harder the liver has to work and many times it cannot filter the amounts of ammonia that come from eating meat/organs...In these cases, the liver is already sick, why cause it more stress...

I know everyone has different opinions...I have just seen too many cases of liver problems where the people put the dogs back on raw or meat protein foods and see problems again down the road whether it be immediately, 3 months down the road, or 6 months...

If there's even a chance that something could be bad for my liver compromised yorkie, then I'm not going to give it to him. Why take the risk?

Now, again, I'm typing this in regards to *symptomatic* liver compromised dogs, and by symptomatic, I mean even the faintest symptom...

I think that there is a misconception that people mean ONLY low protein...This is not the case...Low protein should be given *while* the dog is symptomatic...Then, it should be increased slowly little by little every 7-10 days so that you can watch for more symptoms. If the dog handles it well, increase again...When a dog is symptomatic, you can reach an excellent level of protein by using proper diet, supplements, lactulose, fiber, etc.

Also, the key is the TYPE of protein...A truly liver compromised dog cannot handle meats/fish/organs like they can vegetarian proteins...Vegetarian proteins produce less ammonia leading to less toxic build-up...

Great post Yorkieluv.
I know I am just not strict enough with Ellie but feeding raw is something I wouldn't even want to try. I don't prefer it anyway and there are just too many questionable aspects of it with liver compromised dogs. Liver compromised dogs may do okay on raw but I guess the question is, how much better could they do (or how much better could their enzyme and BAT numbers be) on a different diet...

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Great post Yorkieluv.
I know I am just not strict enough with Ellie but feeding raw is something I wouldn't even want to try. I don't prefer it anyway and there are just too many questionable aspects of it with liver compromised dogs. Liver compromised dogs may do okay on raw but I guess the question is, how much better could they do (or how much better could their enzyme and BAT numbers be) on a different diet...

Liver shunts aren't as common in Maltese as they are in Yorkies, but we've got a number of MVD dogs over on Spoiled Maltese. We discuss diet a lot over there.

Dr. Center doesn't think asymptomatic MVD dogs need a special diet, but every single one of our members who have compared ALT values on regular or raw diets to values on diets designed for liver compromised dogs have seen huge differences, usually several hundred points higher on a regular diet.