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03-30-2005, 03:09 PM | #1 |
Monte, Mone't's Joy! Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MD
Posts: 3,009
| Who is Responsible I have read several threads about questional breeders of tea cup yorkies. I would like to know does the responsibility fall on "US" the Yorkie lovers and buyers to not purchase puppies from these people. Also, who are the consumers who are spending up to $8k for a Yorkie.... I think we should make a thread and post all the questional breeders of tcup yorkies...But, they are being bred because there are people out there who would buy that small of a Yorkie...Is there someway we could get them shut down....If this is repeatitive I am sorry, but this is pissing me off....
__________________ "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."!! Mone't Mom 2 Monte Last edited by PlatinumYorkies; 04-03-2005 at 10:09 PM. |
Welcome Guest! | |
03-30-2005, 03:15 PM | #2 |
BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: California
Posts: 1,043
| I couldn't agree more. It upsets me to that these people are falling for 't cup' yorkies and then once they get a 1lb 6 month old yorkie, it dies because it isn't healthy and they are out $5000. |
03-30-2005, 03:27 PM | #3 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 191
| Well, what do you consider "that small" of a Yorkie? Gracie is 2 lbs. and expected to be around 3 lbs. fully grown. She comes from a 3 lb. Dad and a 5 lb. Mom. I knew when I bought her she'd be around 4 lbs., the low end of Yorkie standard. However, as she's grown (she's almost 5 months old) it appears she may stay around 3 lbs. as an adult unless she has a big growth spurt sometime soon. I bought her specifically for her size. I wanted a "small" dog. A purse puppy, if you will. Not that she travels around in my purse, but you get my drift. I have a 65 lb. Lab, and a 15 lb. Shih Tzu. I wanted something smaller, something puppy sized that stayed that way! It's just personal choice. So I paid $1,200 for her. A lot of money, sure. But she's worth every penny. In fact the joy I get from her is priceless. The breeder I bought her from does breed smaller dogs. Her litters go back 4 and 5 generations and she breeds for the small end of Yorkie standard, and is very careful in her breeding practices. I researched her *in depth* before I spent a dime, making sure that she has a good reputation (she does), that she has happy and healthy pups (she does) and she stands behind every puppy she sells. And yes, she does advertise them as Tiny or Teacup....because they are! My 2 lb'er is tiny next to somebody else's 8 lb. Yorkie. She doesn't fit into my coffee cup, but if I stood her beside my Shih Tzu I'd even refer to her as a teacup....because *next to other dogs that's what she is*. Gracie is by NO means "weak" because she is small, nor do I feel that she is in danger of unusual health problems. I don't treat her with kid gloves. Trust me, she is as rough and tumble as they get! She plays with my Lab like she's the same size! She has no idea she's as small as she is. I would have loved to have bred her and had "grandkids" but she will be too small and I would never, ever put her through something like that. If I thought she'd be over 4 or 5 lbs. yes, I'd probably breed her. And no, I wouldn't breed her with a 10 lb. male, either! So, I guess my response here is this...yes, there are breeders out there selling "tiny" and "teacup" Yorkies for inflated prices. Why? Well, first of all because they can!!! If the market bears it, why not? And second of all, sometimes Tiny or Teacup is basically nothing more than a way to describe the damn dog! I often refer to my Shih Tzu as a moose! Is she *really* a moose?? No....but she's big for a Shih Tzu! If I were selling her I sure wouldn't describe her as petite! My breeder referred to Gracie as being "teddy bear faced", and she is. She looked like a little teddy bear as a baby. Is this a standard Yorkie term? Nooooooooo. But it described my baby! I was adamant that I did NOT want a Yorkie with a wolf face (and you all know what I'm talking about), so I was more than happy to hear her described as a teddy bear. Yes there are wonderful breeders who aren't in it to make money, they are in it for the love of the breed. Bravo to them! But I can tell you this....IF I were a reputable breeder, I would not "blue light special" my babies either. Because somebody who is going to invest a lot of money in my baby is going to take care of her. That's just the way I feel about it. Right or wrong...all the usual disclaimers apply and your mileage may vary! haha
__________________ Julie Last edited by Gracie'sMommy; 03-30-2005 at 03:48 PM. |
03-30-2005, 03:33 PM | #4 |
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mallorca-Spain
Posts: 379
| I know how you feel and I feel exactly the same about this subject.I wish we could post about this for the world to see and stop people from buying from these so called breeders that seem to have amazing,super rare,super tiny,super wonderful,super baby faced yorkies!! All of which cost thousands!!! Its outrageous because non of the above even exist The first thing I was told back when I joined my first yorkie forum was "there is NO such thing as a t-cup yorkie"..but since then I have seen more and more fancy names and more and more people searching for these fantasy yorkies! It DOES sound great when you see an ad that says "super tiny micro t-cup,so tiny that you can take it everywhere"..but if we all do a reality check,what are we trying to buy here? A yorkie,or a cell phone?? A yorkie is a toy breed,its already small..it doesnt need to be made pocket sized because its already one of the smallest breeds there is.If you are looking for anything smaller,then maybe a dog isnt the pet for you?.A yorkie is a companion,a friend..its not a compliment or something you use to draw attention to your self in the street.Unfortunately these "tiny" breeders know how many people there are out there who are looking for something "cute" or something small that wont frighten the kids,and they thrive off of people who have no idea about yorkies or the breed standard.I guess everyones job is to inform others and try to stop this from happening and to stop breeders from charging thousands for yorkies that are bred to be so small that they have life long problems and only cause heart ache and sorrow for their new owners.There are so many ways to see through certain breeders,big red flags are all over certain websites..you just have to learn to pick out the lies. PS:The reason I am against tiny yorkies is because I have a full grown 2lb yorkie and she is fragile..I would NEVER have thought about breeding her..not in my wildest dreams..but there are breeders out there who DO breed yorkies her size.When they are so small,you can never stop worrying about hypoglycemia,you have to have eyes in the back or your head,and you have to be SO careful with kids etc..and all this is with the healthy ones!! Can you imagine what a pregnancy can do to a dog this size??? I dont even like to think about it! Last edited by Chelsie1978; 03-30-2005 at 03:37 PM. |
03-30-2005, 04:05 PM | #5 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: tx
Posts: 624
| The problem isn't just Teacup toy breed dogs. It's people buying from mills, petshops,brokers and irresponsible backyard breeders. Unfortunately it's just not going to stop. It's a supply and demand market, as long as people buy the product, it will be produced. Whats really sad is people don't know this. I mean we know it but there are lots of people out there are just starting to search for a pup, any breed and they don't know the right or safe way to go about. Of course many learn after they make a purchase. Some people have good outcomes with no problems but there are many people whom end up purchasing a sickly dog or a dog that doesn't end up looking like what they had expected, not to mention the conditions in which these dogs are brought into this world. You can't get mad at these people because , they simply just don't know. they are uneducated in how mills, petshops, brokers and backyard breeders operate. I guess the only time you can get upset with them is if they know and go ahead and purchase thru this method anyway. There are lots of great websites that "look" on the up and up and they sell dogs for ridiculous prices, some people assume that means "quality" . But a high price does not assure you the health or quality of a pup. The only way to put an end to this is to get the word out, to educate people. I think that every store or business that has anything remotely to do with anything in the pet industry should make it a priority to post information , provide pamplets to the public near the pet products. Vets should have information available for people that explain all about mills, petshops, etc. Places like Petsmart should have info for customers. I could go on and on.. I start getting worked up about it..sorry..off my soap box now.
__________________ Emme & Faith R.I.P. Mia & Bentley |
03-30-2005, 04:11 PM | #6 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,577
| tinies I get tinies in almost every litter..from 5 and 6 pound parents..what should I do with them? I had an 8 pound girl bred to a nice champion who was 7 pounds and I got 2 tinies in a litter of 6. It just happens. I have a 4 month old right now who weighs one pound..she is healthy and eats like a horse, but she will not grow up to be more then 2 or so..the male in my avatar is from a 5 pound sire and dam..Tully weighs 3 pounds as an adult. Some of my smallest come from my biggest parents??? There is no explaining Mother Nature. |
03-30-2005, 04:23 PM | #7 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: tx
Posts: 624
| Pat, I pm"ed you
__________________ Emme & Faith R.I.P. Mia & Bentley |
03-30-2005, 04:25 PM | #8 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,577
| Pm Try again...nothing there. |
03-30-2005, 04:26 PM | #9 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: tx
Posts: 624
| check it again :-)
__________________ Emme & Faith R.I.P. Mia & Bentley |
03-30-2005, 04:29 PM | #10 |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,577
| Bingo Got it..I had to log off and on again... |
03-30-2005, 04:29 PM | #11 | |
BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 1,297
| Quote:
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03-30-2005, 04:29 PM | #12 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: tx
Posts: 624
| Pat, I would trust you in a heartbeat. I think what some people object to is people making it a priority to promote tinies for big profits.
__________________ Emme & Faith R.I.P. Mia & Bentley |
03-30-2005, 04:37 PM | #13 | |
BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: California
Posts: 1,043
| Quote:
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03-30-2005, 04:59 PM | #14 | |
BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,246
| Quote:
I couldn't have said it better. I agree with you! IMHO there is too much controversy over the semantics and whether we say "teacup" or "tiny". Teacup started because other breeds used it to describe their tinies, i.e, Teacup poodle, teacup chihuahua, etc. ALL yorkies have certain health issues they are prone too. The "runts" you get from a typical breeding of a 6 lb male and a 6 lb female are less healthy than the tinies you get from a 2 lb male mated to a 5 lb female which are the breeders are breeding for what a major portion of the population wants the tiny dog that can travel with them and be their constant companion. Mine are service animals and they have to be small to take on the plane, etc. If the stud is healthy and free of congenital defect and the puppy "takes after him" as far as size goes, I would think that puppy would be healthier than the runt of a "regular" litter. I am not a breeder so I may be all wet about this. It just makes sense to me. I am also obviously opposed to breeding any dog where it would be a health risk to do so. I think the concensus on that issue is that you should not breed a female under 5 lbs and 6 lbs is a better size. I see older tiny females for sale all the time because the breeder was holding onto to them hoping they would get big enought to breed but they didn't, so they are selling them as pets and they even say they are not for sale to "breeders". People who will pay those prices are celebrities or wealthy people who want the best and will pay to get it. Just a warning from a legal perspective about posting ALL of the questionable breeders who advertise "t-cup" puppies as disreputable, IMHO you would be subjecting yourselves, and this forum potentially, to a claim for defamation by breeders who are perfectly reputable and care for their dogs very much. Both of the breeders of my two dogs fit this category since they advertise Teacup yorkies but they are beyond reproach when it comes to how much they care and their knowledge of these tiny babies. They both knew more than the average vet about the health issues, the history of the breed, the breed standard, etc., yet they would be on this list. That would be a disservice to them and to all yorkie lovers in my opinion. These breeders also never "guaranteed" a size and were very clear about the fact that there is no way to tell what size a puppy will be at adulthood. You can get pretty close to determining it with size at birth, size of both parents, etc., and the older they get the more you can tell, which is another reason tinies should be kept by the breeder until at least 12 weeks and preferably longer. The breeders we should "target" (in a legal manner) are the puppy mills who do not provide adequate facilities and proper health care for their adults and their puppies. There are plenty of those to go after before we "target" all questionable t-cup breeders. What is the definition of "questionable" and who decides that? The internet and the law regarding jurisdictional issues of where a lawsuit may be brought could mean that a breeder in Texas could sue IN TEXAS as a result of a post from this site by a member who lives in New Jersey. This is just a hypothetical, but anyone who wants more info on how to "take action" against unscrupulous breeders in a way to prevent defamation, please PM me and I would be happy to help in any way I can. We are a big group and we have the power to make a difference and do it right! Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 03-30-2005 at 05:08 PM. | |
03-30-2005, 05:33 PM | #15 | |
BANNED! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,681
| Quote:
Yorkierose......I would buy a dog from you in a new york minute if I was looking! Just like you I have a 12 oz female at 9 weeks from a 9 lb female. It just happens. | |
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