Legal requirements for becoming a breeder in UK and KC, is it necessary?

[suejenkin]

Having just been blessed with triplet puppies, my husband and myself are so
enjoying the experience, we think we would like to breed on a regular basis. I'm not talking about a puppy factory here! But maybe one or two litters a year. Does anyone know if there are any legal requirements for such a venture, or any council bylaws? We live in Cornwall.
Also, the proud parent Yorkies came to us from a very reputable breeder in Exeter and both have good pedigrees, (Lilys grandmother was a Crufts champion)!
With the triplets, they obviously deserve a pedigree having such well bred parents, but I don't know how to go about it. Are there forms you can buy and if so, do I have to give our own bred Yorkies, currently known as Daisy, Maisie and Dodi, a posher more fancy name, for the Pedigree?
Also what is the position re the kennel club?, when we bought our first Yorkie I asked if he was kennel club registered and the breeder said, no, but she would do it if we wanted. She said it was really only necessary if we were planning to show, which we are not, so I didn't bother, but am now wondering if I should have? some advice please as I have no idea exactly what the kennel club is/does! Sue

[alona1]

Hi!

Congrats on your babies. If your planning to breed I would suggest that you get the parents registered if its not too late. For more info regarding puppies (as its something I'm not too sure on) have a look here: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/

Good Luck!

[Yorkiedreams]

Originally Posted by suejenkin

Having just been blessed with triplet puppies, my husband and myself are so
enjoying the experience, we think we would like to breed on a regular basis. I'm not talking about a puppy factory here! But maybe one or two litters a year. Does anyone know if there are any legal requirements for such a venture, or any council bylaws? We live in Cornwall.
Also, the proud parent Yorkies came to us from a very reputable breeder in Exeter and both have good pedigrees, (Lilys grandmother was a Crufts champion)!
With the triplets, they obviously deserve a pedigree having such well bred parents, but I don't know how to go about it. Are there forms you can buy and if so, do I have to give our own bred Yorkies, currently known as Daisy, Maisie and Dodi, a posher more fancy name, for the Pedigree?
Also what is the position re the kennel club?, when we bought our first Yorkie I asked if he was kennel club registered and the breeder said, no, but she would do it if we wanted. She said it was really only necessary if we were planning to show, which we are not, so I didn't bother, but am now wondering if I should have? some advice please as I have no idea exactly what the kennel club is/does! Sue

I apologize now if anything I say upsets you!


However!...I was going to start a thread on Breeding and going to get peoples responses to it...


PLEASE DO NOT BREED FROM YOUR YORKIE!!! Until she is at least 2 years old! Yorkies need to mature properly and whilst she is still growing and maturing she needs all her energy going into herself!

Also ask yourself WHY you want to breed and what motivates you? If it's money forget it...to breed a decent litter and provide what might be very expensive Veterinary care you need an overdraft!!!

If you have a small Yorkie(there's no such thing as a miniature Yorkie in the UK KC Breed Standard) you may well kill her if you let her get pregnant!

There are far too many poor quality Yorkies and other breeds of dogs being bred in the UK...so many that rescue centres stand no chance of rehoming all the dogs and inevitably some get euthanased.

As you state in your post she is TOY sized(again there is no such size in the breed standard!) there are just Yorkshire terriers! Bitches should be 7 to 7 and a half pounds, they say this so that under size Yorkies are NOT bred from and put at risk! Males should be 3-4 pounds. Go to http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/199 to see the breed standard and have a re-think PLEASE!

all the best, Dawn
__________________

Hi, please don't think I mean to be bossy or interfering or anything...buuuuttt....didn't you have problems finding homes for two little boys you bred earlier in the year?

I just wondered why you want to breed again if you have problems finding homes?

I own and Show Yorkies, yet have only 'sired' one litter so far! Mine are well bred, have fantastic heritage and do well in shows...in fact my friend is Secretary of the Cheshire and North Wales breed club. We tend to have waiting lists for pups anyway, although they are a tad more expensive, they are in demand I'm just interested is all and quite nosey!

Anyway, I look forward to hearing from you and how you resolve finding homes...do you advertise on the Kennel Club website? I think a few people tend to go there to the Puppy list to see what is available?

All the best, Dawn
__________________


These are two replies I have added to posts about puppies already..I have changed my user name from Newfie to Yorkie dreams!

I think it is too late to register them at the KC, but I might be wrong...as I've already said I think people need to examine their motives for breeding...having a Pedigree and improving a breed are two very different things...the only way to assess the true quality of your dogs is to Show them, where they are judged against the Breed Standard and placed in the Shows accordingly. Having been showing and breeding for over 25 years I know that having a pedigree, however many champions are in it, is different to the quality of the pups. The other way to assess them is to get someone who Judges(like me) to go over the dogs and really examine them and give a true account of their type. I think anyone who sells pups will always say their dogs are great examples of the breed and sell them accordingly! If people are generally 'pet owners' how on earth can they say they're good or not?? They don't know as they have no knowledge of what makes a good show dog or not do they?

In fact I think Yorkies have so many things to get right when you breed it's damn near impossible to breed a 'correct' Yorkie...there is coat type, bone structure, lay back of shoulders, colours of tans and steel blue coat...I certainly see a fair few 'wooly' back Yorkies in the ring! Coat texture is incredibly hard to get right and generally, the coat should be like cool silk to run your hand over. Another problem with Yorkies is mouth dentition and jaws...do you know if you dogs have an even, scissor, over or under shot jaw?? Do you know how many teeth they should have? Do you know their ear set? If you read the breed standard properly these are all the things that need to be taken into account...and finally...have you got a purse big enough to pay a large Vet bill if the worse should happen and you have no live pups to sell, but a poorly bitch to deal with? It's not quite it actually! Something else I would like to add again... Is your breeding IMPROVING the breed itself and breeding OUTR faults, rather than breeding them IN? Do you know how to check their lineage to see which type of breeding there is in the lines and what lines to avoid(i.e the lines with all the problems I could mention?) You only really get knowledge like this with careful studying, showing and breeding the RIGHT type of dogs! Again I say...there are far Too many pet yorkies being bred already and I can only imagine the motive to adding to an already over bred breed! If the motives are right then surely you should be doing all the homework and investigation, usually under a mentor who already knows a fair amount about the breed, BEFORE you allow a bitch to have a litter??

I would be very interested to know others views on breeding and why they find it neccessary to produce more puppies?

The general rules on how many litters it takes each year to be classed as a commercial Breeder varies from local council to local council...if you breed ONE litter at anytime, you are, by definition, a breeder! You also need to think very carefully about how many litters you breed from each bitch and the length of time between each litter! Generally bitches should be over 18 months and preferably 2 years old to begin with, no more than one litter each year(or generally not EVERY season...but every other season, provided they have a season every 6 months and not a shorter time in between) There should be someone there continually from birth till about 4 to 5 weeks old(the puppies ages I mean) they should NEVER be left alone! Pups are tiny and need to avoid a hypoglycaemic episode and puppies can fade very rapidly as they are so tiny! I would suggest reading the Book of the Bitch, available from Our Dogs website or Amazon and finally, please go and read about breeding from your dog at http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/89071.html this site...it's also worth joining the Champ Dogs forum as there are people there that will give invaluable advice and help to less knowledgable breeders!

Sorry for going on so much, but this is an area I feel very very passionate about!!

All the best, Dawn

[suejenkin]

Hi Dawn
I think you have replied to the wong post! I have never mentioned the word TOY, and NO I did not have trouble finding homes for young male puppies a while ago!
I too will apologise in advance if anything I say offends but here goes........
The triplets are our very first litter, and have just been checked out by the vet and declared magnificently healthy little souls.
I'm sure you feel passionately about your cause, and mean well, but please understand that when people ask for advice, thats all they are asking for! NOT a lecture on another's personal opinions.
Our Yorkies are pets, pure and simple, I have no desire to show them, I hate all that preening and coats sweeping the floor. Our dogs are adorable, loving, well loved happy little souls, as are their offspring, and I am not in the least bit worried if they aren't up to show standards, as long as they are healthy and happy thats all I care about. If they have any health problems we are perfectly able to afford vets bills, although having said that, we have also taken the precaution of taking out insurance against anything major.
We are mature responsible dog owners and certainly do not need to breed for the money, two of the triplets have being gifted to friends, and we are keeping the third. We have decided to breed again because we found it a wonderful experience, our parent dogs have been marvellous, Lily in particular was a joy to watch with her pups.
Yorkies seem in short supply here in Cornwall. As I mentioned in my post we had to travel to Devon on the 2 separate occasions we bought ours, and whenever we take them out, are constantly being stopped by people asking for the name of the breeder. We would never give or sell any of our puppies to anyone we didn't feel sure about, and will be in contact for at least the first year to help with any problems.
Thanks to others who replied to my post, who actually gave me the information I was asking for!
Happy New Year!
Sue

[Yorkiedreams]

No sorry Sue, I may have misled you a bit with the other replies to someone elses thread I had put on there...just to let people know where I was coming from!

You're right it is just my views...but far too many people have unrealistic views on breeding and when they hit the pit falls start to realise it's not all as easy as they think it is!

I am trying to educate people about breeding from undersize Yorkies, trying to maintain the correct standards for the Yorkies and so on...why have a breed standard in the first place if you don't want to breed to it's guidelines? And if you don't want to adhere to the guidelines and standards then why breed?? And, although thankfully the Yorkies don't have a lot of health problems at the moment, mainly due to careful breeding! there are other breeds that do! I have also heard some very sad cases about people perpetuating or causing health problems by too much interbreeding and by being unaware of line breeding issues etc. Some people who have bred Yorkies for years have done a lot of work for the breed...not all of them Show of course...but just because you don't Show, doesn't mean that the breeding should be of any a lesser standard surely? and if you don't know the Breed Standard then how on earth can you breed pups that follow the Breed Standard???

Maybe you're right...maybe this forum is a bit too 'fluffy' for me and I ought to go and debate elsewhere! Ohh I don't think legal requirements is the only thing to worry about...I think we need to worrry about moral requirements too!

All the best, Dawn

[HighlandYorkies]

Unbelievable Dawn !
It's show breeders like you who charge exhorbitant prices for your pups who make my blood boil !
Many's a little old lady/man who just wants a wee one to love and sit on his/her knee and has to advertise for a wee dog like a yorkie "free" or "cheap" as they are on a pension.
All they want is a happy, healthy puppy....which is something you show breeders cannot promise, often telling of a puppy's faults and not putting it on a breeding register, yet still expecting huge amounts of cash for what you consider a "good" pup.
Yorkies are very scarce up here in the North of Scotland as well, and I have had to travel hundreds of miles for my three. I have rescued dogs from horrendous conditions which were sold by kc breeders to these irresponsible owners in the first place. The Kennel Club is a farce and doesn't ensure a good puppy or a good loving home. Too many of their breeders are just in it to make hundreds of pounds for each pup they continually breed.
Far better a pet breeder who will check each prospective new owner and know that these people are giving a good home to each dog no matter what it looks like and continuing the love they have bestowed on each pup. ie they are not looking for ridiculous amounts of money, but a loving home for a reasonable price.
If you think that the breed standard is a good thing, then just look at all the poor snub-nosed dog breeds who cannot breath and have no end of health problems due to trying to get a certain look in a dog.
So carry on you infrequent pet breeders and continue to produce happy, loving puppies at reasonable prices ! If you have a happy healthy mature young dog and the same in a mate, and have read up on the subject and have a good vet, and have people asking for puppies who you know are good people, then by all means if you are willing to spend the time in safely bringing up these puppies until they are ready for their new homes, and look after their mum, then go ahead !
How did any dog ever come into being before the Kennel Club I wonder ?
The only people we should all worry about are the puppy farmers.....mind you I often think that a lot of show/kc breeders are no better than puppy farms at continually breeding dogs to get "the dog", to show off within their circle saying look what I have...."the dog"(....the poor over groomed animal !) though they conform to what I would consider the poor guidelines of the Kennel Club ! If they care that much for dogs, it should be they who go and give the poor rescued dogs a permanent loving new home ....not just the rest of us !
DEBRA

[yorkieK9trainer]

Your Yorkies are probably UKC or FCI registered.
Your best bet is to go back to the breeder that you bought your dogs from and ask her these questions!

[Meggie]

If you want to register your puppies with the Kennel Club, their parents will need to be registered first.

You don't need to have a special kennel name or "affix" as it's known, you can call them anything you want, as long as it isn't registered to someone else already. Most regular breeders do have their own affix if they want to show or have the same "surname" for all the dogs they own & puppies they breed, but it cost's quite a bit of money. I can't say just how much these days, you'd need to contact the Kennel Club, as it's 27 years since i registered mine & the rules have changed since then. You pay an initial fee to set up the affix & then pay a yearly fee on top to keep it active. When I did mine you could pay a bigger fee to get it for life, but they stopped that some years ago.

If you aren't planning to show, & the puppies won't be shown either, then you don't really need to register the puppies at all. You could still write out a pedigree to give to the new owners, you can buy the forms from various places. You have to pay a fee to register each pup, then the new owner has to pay another KC fee to have the puppy transferred to their name on the registration card.

As far as the legalities of breeding go, you need to contact your local council. The rules vary, but it's usually something along the lines of....if you own two or more bitches from which you intend to breed then you need to be registered with the council. They will inspect your home & facilities before granting a lisence. If you just have one breeding bitch you don't need a lisence. They reinspect from time to time to make sure things are still ok.

Hope this helps a bit.
I've bred & shown another breed for a very long time, but not the yorkies.
They do seem to be getting harder to find. The only Yorkie I have now is twelve years old & I'm thinking now of getting another puppy but it's very hard to find a good one.

[suejenkin]

Firstly A Big Thank You To Everyone Who Has Replied With Help And Constructive Advice. We Have Now Decided On How To Proceed And Will Continue To Occasionally Breed From Our Gorgeous Yorkies. The Reason Is Twofold, Firstly We Loved The Whole Experience, Our Dogs Were Amazing And The Puppies Gave Us, And Them, So Much Pleasure. Secondly We Want To Provide Fellow Yorkie Lovers With Affordable, Healthy Puppies. We Are In Constant Touch With The Couple Who Purchased Our One Boy Puppy, And They Regularly Report On His Progress And Send Pics.
A Message To Mandy - I Too Was Appalled By Dawns Reply, But Being A Non Confrontational Person Kept It To Myself. I Particularly Hated The Bit Where She Said Don't Breed, Leave It To The Professionals, Who Can Maintain The Correct Standard, And Also That Her Friends Had Waiting Lists For Puppies Even Though They Are Expensive!
It Left Me Wondering, What Happens To The Poor Little Souls That Don't Come Up To "standard"? Quietly Disposed Of? Thank God We Don't Judge Our Own Babies In This Way!
Its Purely My Own Opinion, But I Can't Stand Seeing Yorkies Preened And Beribboned And Paraded In Front Of Judges, I Prefer To See Them Like Mine, Happily Playing Out In The Garden, Having A Bit Of A Rough And Tunble, Rolling In The Mud! Then Coming In And Unceremoniously Getting Plonked In The Sink For A Wash. It Never Fails To Make Us Laugh How They Twist Themselves Around On The Rug Trying To Get Dry, They Each Have A Little Fur Lined Igloo And The Puppy Takes Herself Off In There To Get Dry , And Proceeds To Roll The Whole Thing Around The Room With Herself Inside It Like A Mini Tumble Dryer!
So, Mandy, Thanks For Your Support. I Will Continue To Breed My Dogs, Maybe Once Every Year Or Two, And Provide Affordable (or Even Free In Some Cases) Healthy And Lovable Puppies To Those Who Can't Afford Breeders Prices, But Have A Wealth Of Love Instead!
Sue

[Meggie]

Good luck to you Sue. I hope it all works out well

The reason I never got involved with showing my Yorkies was because I couldn't be doing with all that crackering, oiling the coat & rolling it up in papers all the time. Just my personal opinion, but it didn't seem like such a fun way for a little dog to live.

I'm lucky enough to have a very big garden. on the moors in the West Pennines, & all my dogs have the run of the garden & house. The terriers, that i showed, not being trimmed breeds either, just needed a wash & brush up before a show. Other than that they were often muddy, or worse if they got into the field where we keep the geese!

But I'd always wanted a Yorkie. She's just been my constant companion & shadow for the last 12 years, & an only dog since my other terriers all got old & died.
Now she has a heart complaint & is on full time medication, monitored every two months by the vet.Eighteen months ago I was warned to expect to have her for weeks, not months, so every month is a bonus & I'm dreading losing her. She can't go out for walks any more.

I'm know what you mean about the drying Mine uses the sofa as a towel.

You're puppies sound beautiful & I think your attitude is lovely. Wish you were nearer to me, as I have an IOU for a puppy from my husband as a Valentine present

[yorkieK9trainer]

"Its Purely My Own Opinion, But I Can't Stand Seeing Yorkies Preened And Beribboned And Paraded In Front Of Judges, I Prefer To See Them Like Mine, Happily Playing Out In The Garden, Having A Bit Of A Rough And Tunble, Rolling In The Mud! "

And yet you had no isssues boasting (well, mentioning really) that your dogs grandmother mother came from a Crufts winner. Why take credit for something that you had no part of? Champion lines mean very little. It's the dog in hand that you're breeding that matters most. A top model can develop a child w/ epilepsy and cerabal palsy.

And my show dogs get to play in the mud and romp in the garden and TOTALLY rough and tumble!

[suejenkin]

Hi Meggie
Thank you for your lovely reply, I do hope your Yorkie manages to prove the vet wrong and lives a lot longer, they are adorable companions aren't they? Please keep my ID, I would happily meet you halfway, if we do have another litter, but bear in mind it probably won't be this year.

YorkieK9trainer - being non confrontational, I was not going to bother replying to your vitriolic post, but you must have caught me on a bad day, so here goes. My puppies Grandmother WAS a Crufts champion, its a fact, I can't change that, its on her Pedigree form, end of. I certainly don't take any credit for it, as obviously I was not the owner, and the only boasting I do about my puppies is that they are fabulous, a sentiment echoed by every other proud owner I'm sure.
I am perfectly entitled to voice my opinion, in that I don't like to see Yorkies preened with long coats and ribbons in their hair! I also don't like to see people with their tongues pierced! but that, again, is just MY opinion. Lots of people like preened Yorkies and lots of people have their tongues pierced, it doesn't make them WRONG, I just don't like it myself.
The fact that the previous post thinks my attitude to my dogs is lovely, gave me a warm feeling, surely on here, all the members want is some friendly banter back and forth about our dogs, and a bit of advice now and then when asked for?
It's rare (thank goodness) to come across a spiteful reply, but I guess it takes all sorts to make a world, and all sorts to breed Yorkies!!
Sue

[yorkieK9trainer]

Sue, indeed you're right.
And please forgive any harshness you may've read from my post, I'm due to deliver my first child any day now.

"I am perfectly entitled to voice my opinion, in that I don't like to see Yorkies preened with long coats and ribbons in their hair!"

What I guess I didn't understand is, if you don't like what you said (quoted above) why then would you buy from a breeder that does exactly the thing that you don't care for?

[suejenkin]

Yorkie9trainer - I think a truce is required here!! Congratulations on your forthcoming baby, hope all goes well, please keep us informed.
The reason we bought our dogs from the lady in Exeter was because they were the only ones we found for sale, there is a real shortage of them here in Cornwall, and I am forever being stopped and asked where I had them from. Also at the time we bought our first one, I wasn't particularly a dog person, I could take them or leave them. Bringing Bobby into our home changed me overnight! It was only then that I realised its possible to love a dog as if it was a child. At the breeders where we bought both of ours, her house was full of dogs with funny rollers in and some of them had long flowing skirts, and bows, I remember saying to Steve my hubby on the long journey back that I would never want to do that sort of thing, and he agreed. So there we have it, we ALL love our Yorkies, some of us prefer "au naturelle" and some prefer to groom and show, but I guess at the end of the day the most important thing is the LOVE!!
So, my fellow Yorkie lover, a truce and good wishes for you and your new baby.
Sue

[yorkieK9trainer]

Sue, a truce it is!

What a delightful story. And at every opportunity, post up pics. *grin*

~Leslie