Question to breeders - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Cares4Dogs · 04-25-2006, 07:49 PM

Okay-please dont attack me for asking this question.

I've read many of the posts of people inquiring about breeding their dog, mixed or purebred, the response is the same! Anyone who has come to this site and asked the question is researching, but nonetheless they are always told to do their research and quite often get verbally attacked.

I've read that people should NEVER breed their pet because there is too much heartache involved, but I see stated on the breeders websites that the breed dogs are not only their pets, but part of their family-what sense does that make? I've also seen on these breeder websites that retired breed dogs are up for adoption.....if they were such a part of their family, when their sole purpose in this "family" is served, why get rid of them? So much for the love of your "family". I guess once the dollar is done being earned-they are outta there!

Purebred versus mix: if you look down the line-they were all mixed somewhere along the lines. My family and friends have owned mixed dogs adopted from animal shelters that have led extremely healthy and long lasting lives--way more than the purebreds that had been raised.

A purebred dog is nothing more than a mixed breed that has been inbred time over time until the breeder "thinks" they have it right.

I admire the good breeders out there that truly love their animals and keep them and love them for the duration of their lives. A mixed dog is no less of value just because of the bloodline.......a life is a life no matter what the "race" is.

I'm not saying that everyone out there should breed their dog. I firmly agree wtih responsible breeding practices, but I don't have to agree with all of the opinions of the purebred breeders.

Okay I guess I should expect to be the one getting a verbal attack now, but like everyone else on this site--I have my opinion and Im entitled to it.

Baby Blessing · 04-25-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

Okay-please dont attack me for asking this question.

I've also seen on these breeder websites that retired breed dogs are up for adoption.....if they were such a part of their family, when their sole purpose in this "family" is served, why get rid of them? So much for the love of your "family". I guess once the dollar is done being earned-they are outta there!

We bought our yorkie from a breeder that this is not their practice, and hopefully it isn't that of many breeders. I do believe there are many out there that are into breeding and keep their retired females, and do become very attatched to them and are not in it for just financial gain. I have not done a search on the net of web site breeders to read what you are talking about. I do see your point here and think it is very well put by you. We have never had any interest in breeding any of our pets so can't answer your ? but make a personal comment on this subject. Have a nice night.
Patti and ~~Baby Blessing~~

Cares4Dogs · 04-25-2006, 08:51 PM

just for the record-I have not seen that on websites of yorkietalk.com breeder members....I've just seen it on misc. web sites. Hope none of the breeders here took offense.

Itspuppyluv · 04-25-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

I've also seen on these breeder websites that retired breed dogs are up for adoption.....if they were such a part of their family, when their sole purpose in this "family" is served, why get rid of them? So much for the love of your "family". I guess once the dollar is done being earned-they are outta there!

I know it upsets a lot of people but I'm curious about this. From my own experience and from what I've read on YT, people have a hard time finding responsible breeders with available puppies. I want my puppy from a home where they only have enough dogs they can care for properly and give the attention they deserve. If they breed after the second heat and for only so many years without wearing the females out, then keep the females for the rest of their lives, how many puppies could they possibly have? Where does that leave the many people wanting puppies to turn? More mill puppies?
If you look at the big picture, isn't it necessary for good breeders to rehome?

We've taken in two dogs when the owners could no longer keep them. The dogs never forgot them but were just as happy with us (it was harder on the owners). I just don't see it as that terrible if they find a loving home.

Cares4Dogs · 04-26-2006, 05:28 AM

Yes-I know its pretty difficult to find a reputable breeder with an available pup. I would think there would be more encouragement to the people wanting to breed rather than questioning their intentions.

I would think that yorkietalk.com to ask some questions would be a great place to start, possibly the best place to start next to a vet's office. The negative shouldn't be assummed. Is it gonna stop someone from breeding their pet? no--they just wont come post about it.

I guess the truth is--not everyone out there wanting to breed their pet is a future "puppy mill" and some encouragement and great advice would be in order.

lisatodd · 04-26-2006, 05:47 AM

From My Experience, It Appears Alot Of People Do This As A Hobby To Make Extra$$ And When This Occurs, You Get Over Breeding And The Standards Are Compromised. Most People Want A Large Female (11 Lbs) To A Small Male (3lbs) To Have More Puppies Ie...make More Money. This Is Wrong And Wrong To The Person Who Is Purchasing The Puppy. I Am One Of Thoese Examples Of Someone Who Wanted The Standard Breed And My Male Is 8lbs. This Is Very Heartbreaking B/c I Wanted A 5/6 Lb Pup. I Love My Kirby To Death And Would Never Give Him Up Due To His Size But I Really Wanted To Start Showing Just For The Fun Of It And For The Pure Enjoyment But I Cannot Due To His Size. I Am Not A Breeder Nor Do I Want To Be One But For Someone Who Would Like To Have The Standard Breed, I Would Want Someone Who Is Serious And Not Breed Just For The Money.

Cares4Dogs · 04-26-2006, 05:55 AM

that would be heartbreaking to buy a pup to show for hobby and its not within the breed standard, but a good breeder cannot guarantee the size of the pup..only an educated guess.

Dont a lot of breeders who are selling a show quality puppy keep the pup until its around 6 months to ensure it will be within the standard and size that the customer expects? Did your breeder do that?

lisatodd · 04-26-2006, 06:17 AM

i took the breeder on her word. she advised me the mother was 5lbs and father 3lbs. when i picked up kirby, the mother was there but the father was a stud located somewhere else. she showed me the pedigree (which doesn't tell me anything except there was no inner breeding) and seemed to be very knowledgable on yorkies. but on this yt, you see a lot of people w large females having pups which doesnt keep w the standard.

Cares4Dogs · 04-26-2006, 06:20 AM

Yeah-it makes it difficult to trust a breeder, but if I were purchasing a show dog, I'd definately make sure both of the parents were AKC champions first. Hind site is 20/20..hopefully you'll get your chance to show one day.

Olivier · 04-26-2006, 06:30 AM

Dont a lot of breeders who are selling a show quality puppy keep the pup until its around 6 months to ensure it will be within the standard and size that the customer expects? Did your breeder do that?[/quote]

I am always keeping my show prospect puppies until 7 to 9 months . Don't forget that sometimes peoples want to have the puppy before due time . It is not always the fault of the breeder if a person don't have what he or she want.
Once , I had a person wanting to have a show pup and when I told the person she would have to wait , she called me all sort of names and went to the nearest pet shop and bough the most horrible puppy I have ever seen .
The secret for buying a show puppy is patience , patience and patience .

Cares4Dogs · 04-26-2006, 06:38 AM

Well said Olivier

sylvan · 04-26-2006, 07:04 AM

"Up to 10 million healthy animals are killed in U.S. pounds and shelters every year. The killing could easily be prevented by spaying and neutering.
Euthanasia is the single largest cause of death for dogs in the U.S. Each year 27 million of the animals are born. Five to ten million we classify as "surplus" and kill. That's about one million per month. These numbers do not include the millions of dead dogs whose bodies we scrape off the streets, or the hundreds of thousands of abandoned, severely neglected or abused ones who never make it to our shelters to be counted and killed. The five to ten million figure represents those we "must" kill because they are unwanted.
Most of these animals are young and healthy; in fact, it is estimated that a majority are less than one year of age. The problem is simple: we have too many dogs. Too many for the too few homes available. The solution we have opted for is to kill the extras. This solution has been considered acceptable by default, as though there were no other way to control the crisis. And we spend over $1 billion every year destroying "man's best friend."
Why is this happening in the United States today? The number one biggest contributor to the problem is the backyard breeder not the puppy mills.
This is a name that has become unpopular and no one wants to admit they are a backyard breeder. Many people do not even realize they are part of the problem. This is what I need to address in this post. The only way to stop the needless killing of dogs is to stop the needless breeding of them.
Every breed of dog recognized by the AKC has a written standard, a blueprint of what the dog should look like and act like. These standards were written so that all would know what a quality example of the breed is and strive to produce dogs that meet or exceed the standard in health, temperament and appearance. To be sure you are breeding dogs that meet these standards, your dogs must be judged by people who have a lifetime of experience among the breed."

To address some of the questions you posed
Questioning intentions is the first step anyone should make of themselves before beginning to breed...There are many things most people don't even consider and those of us with experience doing this feel an obligation to educate if we can. I am more than willing to help anyone interested in doing this WELL, since there is a dearth of reputable breeders out there and unfortunately a plethora of irresponsible, uninformed bybs with questionable motivation at best.
There is a very large difference between breeding your pet and treating your breeding dogs AS pets. A great deal of time, research and money is invested in the dogs used by a responsible breeder in a breeding program to attempt to eliminate the problems that are inherent in the breed and to try to produce a good example of the standard for the love of the breed itself.
Yes, we love them and they are our pets and that is what produces a well socialized dog. It is a question of the total package, not just getting one part of this equation correct.

"I've also seen on these breeder websites that retired breed dogs are up for adoption.....if they were such a part of their family, when their sole purpose in this "family" is served, why get rid of them? So much for the love of your "family". I guess once the dollar is done being earned-they are outta there!"

This comment is a common observation made by those who don't understand what kind of commitment is involved in doing this well. The costs involved far outweigh the income....so the question of them being 'outta there' when done earning is ridiculous. If a breeder kept all of their breeding dogs as pets perpetually, they could never improve the quality of what they were producing. Placing retirees as pets is done out of love, true love, which looks to the welfare of the dog first and our own emotional ties second.

I am not going to address the question of mixed breeds other than to say, there are plenty of those in rescue all the time, why would anyone deliberately add to that problem?

Cares4Dogs · 04-26-2006, 07:15 AM

Sylvan, it all boils down to responsible breeding practices and pet ownership. Not everyone inquiring on breeding is gonna allow one of their pups to go to a shelter. There is a bad seed everywhere...but there are some good seeds as well--just saying dont attack everyone inquiring on breeding their dog.

sylvan · 04-26-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

Sylvan, it all boils down to responsible breeding practices and pet ownership. Not everyone inquiring on breeding is gonna allow one of their pups to go to a shelter. There is a bad seed everywhere...but there are some good seeds as well--just saying dont attack everyone inquiring on breeding their dog.

You are right it does. If a person commits to a lifetime return policy on any pups they produce and insists on spay/neuter for any pets produced then that is a step in the right direction. In my opinion the reponsible thing to do is research thoroughly BEFORE you acquire your first 'breeding' dog....not come here saying 'I think my dog is having puppies?'
You attacked the reputable breeders that retire breeding dogs to pet homes by insinuating that our motivation is purely financial, but we are somehow rude for questioning motivations/intentions of people that want to breed their pets?

Cares4Dogs · 04-26-2006, 07:51 AM

there was no attack--scroll back up and read the post "just for the record-I have never seen that of yorkietalk.com breeder websites".

04-25-2006, 07:49 PM	#1
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	Question to breeders Okay-please dont attack me for asking this question. I've read many of the posts of people inquiring about breeding their dog, mixed or purebred, the response is the same! Anyone who has come to this site and asked the question is researching, but nonetheless they are always told to do their research and quite often get verbally attacked. I've read that people should NEVER breed their pet because there is too much heartache involved, but I see stated on the breeders websites that the breed dogs are not only their pets, but part of their family-what sense does that make? I've also seen on these breeder websites that retired breed dogs are up for adoption.....if they were such a part of their family, when their sole purpose in this "family" is served, why get rid of them? So much for the love of your "family". I guess once the dollar is done being earned-they are outta there! Purebred versus mix: if you look down the line-they were all mixed somewhere along the lines. My family and friends have owned mixed dogs adopted from animal shelters that have led extremely healthy and long lasting lives--way more than the purebreds that had been raised. A purebred dog is nothing more than a mixed breed that has been inbred time over time until the breeder "thinks" they have it right. I admire the good breeders out there that truly love their animals and keep them and love them for the duration of their lives. A mixed dog is no less of value just because of the bloodline.......a life is a life no matter what the "race" is. I'm not saying that everyone out there should breed their dog. I firmly agree wtih responsible breeding practices, but I don't have to agree with all of the opinions of the purebred breeders. Okay I guess I should expect to be the one getting a verbal attack now, but like everyone else on this site--I have my opinion and Im entitled to it.

04-26-2006, 05:47 AM	#6
lisatodd Little Boogers Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: virginia beach, va Posts: 4,459	From My Experience, It Appears Alot Of People Do This As A Hobby To Make Extra$$ And When This Occurs, You Get Over Breeding And The Standards Are Compromised. Most People Want A Large Female (11 Lbs) To A Small Male (3lbs) To Have More Puppies Ie...make More Money. This Is Wrong And Wrong To The Person Who Is Purchasing The Puppy. I Am One Of Thoese Examples Of Someone Who Wanted The Standard Breed And My Male Is 8lbs. This Is Very Heartbreaking B/c I Wanted A 5/6 Lb Pup. I Love My Kirby To Death And Would Never Give Him Up Due To His Size But I Really Wanted To Start Showing Just For The Fun Of It And For The Pure Enjoyment But I Cannot Due To His Size. I Am Not A Breeder Nor Do I Want To Be One But For Someone Who Would Like To Have The Standard Breed, I Would Want Someone Who Is Serious And Not Breed Just For The Money. __________________ lisa lisa and the cult jam yorkies

04-26-2006, 06:17 AM	#8
lisatodd Little Boogers Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: virginia beach, va Posts: 4,459	i took the breeder on her word. she advised me the mother was 5lbs and father 3lbs. when i picked up kirby, the mother was there but the father was a stud located somewhere else. she showed me the pedigree (which doesn't tell me anything except there was no inner breeding) and seemed to be very knowledgable on yorkies. but on this yt, you see a lot of people w large females having pups which doesnt keep w the standard. __________________ lisa lisa and the cult jam yorkies

04-26-2006, 07:04 AM	#12
sylvan YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,484	"Up to 10 million healthy animals are killed in U.S. pounds and shelters every year. The killing could easily be prevented by spaying and neutering. Euthanasia is the single largest cause of death for dogs in the U.S. Each year 27 million of the animals are born. Five to ten million we classify as "surplus" and kill. That's about one million per month. These numbers do not include the millions of dead dogs whose bodies we scrape off the streets, or the hundreds of thousands of abandoned, severely neglected or abused ones who never make it to our shelters to be counted and killed. The five to ten million figure represents those we "must" kill because they are unwanted. Most of these animals are young and healthy; in fact, it is estimated that a majority are less than one year of age. The problem is simple: we have too many dogs. Too many for the too few homes available. The solution we have opted for is to kill the extras. This solution has been considered acceptable by default, as though there were no other way to control the crisis. And we spend over $1 billion every year destroying "man's best friend." Why is this happening in the United States today? The number one biggest contributor to the problem is the backyard breeder not the puppy mills. This is a name that has become unpopular and no one wants to admit they are a backyard breeder. Many people do not even realize they are part of the problem. This is what I need to address in this post. The only way to stop the needless killing of dogs is to stop the needless breeding of them. Every breed of dog recognized by the AKC has a written standard, a blueprint of what the dog should look like and act like. These standards were written so that all would know what a quality example of the breed is and strive to produce dogs that meet or exceed the standard in health, temperament and appearance. To be sure you are breeding dogs that meet these standards, your dogs must be judged by people who have a lifetime of experience among the breed." To address some of the questions you posed Questioning intentions is the first step anyone should make of themselves before beginning to breed...There are many things most people don't even consider and those of us with experience doing this feel an obligation to educate if we can. I am more than willing to help anyone interested in doing this WELL, since there is a dearth of reputable breeders out there and unfortunately a plethora of irresponsible, uninformed bybs with questionable motivation at best. There is a very large difference between breeding your pet and treating your breeding dogs AS pets. A great deal of time, research and money is invested in the dogs used by a responsible breeder in a breeding program to attempt to eliminate the problems that are inherent in the breed and to try to produce a good example of the standard for the love of the breed itself. Yes, we love them and they are our pets and that is what produces a well socialized dog. It is a question of the total package, not just getting one part of this equation correct. "I've also seen on these breeder websites that retired breed dogs are up for adoption.....if they were such a part of their family, when their sole purpose in this "family" is served, why get rid of them? So much for the love of your "family". I guess once the dollar is done being earned-they are outta there!" This comment is a common observation made by those who don't understand what kind of commitment is involved in doing this well. The costs involved far outweigh the income....so the question of them being 'outta there' when done earning is ridiculous. If a breeder kept all of their breeding dogs as pets perpetually, they could never improve the quality of what they were producing. Placing retirees as pets is done out of love, true love, which looks to the welfare of the dog first and our own emotional ties second. I am not going to address the question of mixed breeds other than to say, there are plenty of those in rescue all the time, why would anyone deliberately add to that problem? __________________ Stacy and the crew

04-25-2006, 08:51 PM	#3
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	just for the record-I have not seen that on websites of yorkietalk.com breeder members....I've just seen it on misc. web sites. Hope none of the breeders here took offense.

04-26-2006, 05:28 AM	#5
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	Yes-I know its pretty difficult to find a reputable breeder with an available pup. I would think there would be more encouragement to the people wanting to breed rather than questioning their intentions. I would think that yorkietalk.com to ask some questions would be a great place to start, possibly the best place to start next to a vet's office. The negative shouldn't be assummed. Is it gonna stop someone from breeding their pet? no--they just wont come post about it. I guess the truth is--not everyone out there wanting to breed their pet is a future "puppy mill" and some encouragement and great advice would be in order.

04-26-2006, 05:55 AM	#7
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	that would be heartbreaking to buy a pup to show for hobby and its not within the breed standard, but a good breeder cannot guarantee the size of the pup..only an educated guess. Dont a lot of breeders who are selling a show quality puppy keep the pup until its around 6 months to ensure it will be within the standard and size that the customer expects? Did your breeder do that?

04-26-2006, 06:20 AM	#9
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	Yeah-it makes it difficult to trust a breeder, but if I were purchasing a show dog, I'd definately make sure both of the parents were AKC champions first. Hind site is 20/20..hopefully you'll get your chance to show one day.

04-26-2006, 06:30 AM	#10
Olivier Currently Suspended! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,878	Dont a lot of breeders who are selling a show quality puppy keep the pup until its around 6 months to ensure it will be within the standard and size that the customer expects? Did your breeder do that?[/quote] I am always keeping my show prospect puppies until 7 to 9 months . Don't forget that sometimes peoples want to have the puppy before due time . It is not always the fault of the breeder if a person don't have what he or she want. Once , I had a person wanting to have a show pup and when I told the person she would have to wait , she called me all sort of names and went to the nearest pet shop and bough the most horrible puppy I have ever seen . The secret for buying a show puppy is patience , patience and patience .

04-26-2006, 06:38 AM	#11
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	Well said Olivier

04-26-2006, 07:15 AM	#13
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	Sylvan, it all boils down to responsible breeding practices and pet ownership. Not everyone inquiring on breeding is gonna allow one of their pups to go to a shelter. There is a bad seed everywhere...but there are some good seeds as well--just saying dont attack everyone inquiring on breeding their dog.

04-26-2006, 07:51 AM	#15
Cares4Dogs Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: El Paso Posts: 153	there was no attack--scroll back up and read the post "just for the record-I have never seen that of yorkietalk.com breeder websites".