Allert all indiana breeders

[Doodlebop]

Indiana House Bill 1468,
You can read the Bill for yourself. House Bill 1468 This will affect all breeders having 5 puppies a year. Not five litters, FIVE PUPPIES. Existing government legislation already covers ILLEGAL AND INHUMANE TREATMENT such as puppy mills, now they want to be over responsible breeders too. This bill has an hidden agenda. This bill is meant to affect responsible breeders and law abiding citizens. This bill will just force the illegal puppy mills further underground. If irradication of "puppy mills" is the goal then enforcement of the laws and statutes already in place would take care of that. All responsible breeders who are already under the strict observation of the AKC know that poor conditions and poor treatment of our pets is not tolerated and will result in your expulsion from the AKC. PUPPY MILLS DO NOT OPERATE WITH AKC MEMBERSHIP OR UNDER THEIR OBSERVATION!

CALL YOUR STATE REPRESENATIVE NOW!!!!!

Go to www.in.gov to find who Your state representative is in your area.
Call 1-800-382-9842, and if you can’t get through that line, You can also call at 317-232-9600.

This bill will affect all breeders.
It will also affect everyone wanting to purchase a purebred dog from a responsible breeder.

[Wylie's Mom]

YAY ! Thank you for posting this properly, it is much appreciated - and I know it was a bit tedious. Looking forward to good discussions regarding this bill.

[yoursotino]

Everyone needs to read this bill it will not stop the puppymills. What will stop puppymill is dont buy from them. dont buy from pet stores if you cant see the parent then run for the hills. Please contact your senators ask them to vote NO

[joldham]

Please everyone help Indiana Breeders!!!!!! I urge you to contact Mitch Daniels via AKC.org website. If you can STRONGLY yet POLITELY voice your opion against this bill. You can also email your senator through this website. Where would all of us yorkie lovers and other animal lovers be with out our responsible and caring breeders????

Please it only take a few minutes to help stop something that could effect many for a life time. We only have a few days to get our message to them.
Thanks again!!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Doodlebop

Indiana House Bill 1468,
You can read the Bill for yourself. http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2009/HB/HB1468.html This will affect all breeders having 5 puppies a year. Not five litters, FIVE PUPPIES. Existing government legislation already covers ILLEGAL AND INHUMANE TREATMENT such as puppy mills, now they want to be over responsible breeders too. This bill has an hidden agenda. This bill is meant to affect responsible breeders and law abiding citizens. This bill will just force the illegal puppy mills further underground. If irradication of "puppy mills" is the goal then enforcement of the laws and statutes already in place would take care of that. All responsible breeders who are already under the strict observation of the AKC know that poor conditions and poor treatment of our pets is not tolerated and will result in your expulsion from the AKC. PUPPY MILLS DO NOT OPERATE WITH AKC MEMBERSHIP OR UNDER THEIR OBSERVATION!

CALL YOUR STATE REPRESENATIVE NOW!!!!!

Go to www.in.gov to find who Your state representative is in your area.
Call 1-800-382-9842, and if you can’t get through that line, You can also call at 317-232-9600.

This bill will affect all breeders.
It will also affect everyone wanting to purchase a purebred dog from a responsible breeder.

That link isn't working anymore, here' a new link: House Bill 1468 I hope good breeders help formulate this bill. Just voting "no" doesn't seem to help the problem; we need people to help write the bill so that the good breeders won't be affected.

[Sookie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

That link isn't working anymore, here' a new link: House Bill 1468 I hope good breeders help formulate this bill. Just voting "no" doesn't seem to help the problem; we need people to help write the bill so that the good breeders won't be affected.

That is so true. Good post!

[Doodlebop]

Indiana


House Bill 1468 was snuck into the House Courts and Criminal Code Committee last week as an unannounced amendment to an animal cruelty bill relating to convicted felons. This kind of political dirty trick is used to eliminate opposition to controversial measures, by denying opponents the opportunity to read the legislation, contact elected officials and testify at the hearing.

Dog owners thus were robbed of the opportunity to participate in the process, and not given a chance to try to convince the legislators to vote against this amendment.

The amended legislation was approved by the committee by an 11-1 vote, and sent to the full House of Representatives with a recommendation for passage.

It is IMPERATIVE for every Indiana dog owners to immediately contact their legislators and explain your reasons for asking him or her to vote against HB 1468. Without a very strong response from dog owners, we expect this measure to be approved and sent to the Senate, which will be our last chance to stop it.

Rep. Ralph Foley (R-47) of Martinsville, IN, was the only committee member to vote against this legislation. Please take the time to contact Rep. Foley and express your gratitude for his support of the rights of dog owners, and his opposition to the animal rights agenda. Also, please ask him for his continued support. Here is a link to his email contact form: http://www.in.gov/cgi-bin/legislative/contact/contact-2-5.pl?data=h047 .

Here is a summary of the impact HB 1468 will have on dog owners:
[LIST][*]It will destroy the rescue network in Indiana. While rescue groups are exempt, a person or organization that breeds dogs cannot qualify for this exemption. People who raise dogs began the rescue movement decades ago, and remain at its heart today. Almost all rescue groups for specific breeds rely on people who raise that breed of dogs to foster homeless animals. In addition, many of the highest quality breeders of dogs for show and performance take a very active leadership role in the rescue community.[/LIST][LIST][*]Anyone who sells five or more dogs to the public in a year will be classified as a pet dealer. Thus, in many cases, even having a single litter of puppies will require extensive record-keeping of all dogs sold and all veterinary records, and require the dog owner to make that information available to law enforcement officials and potential pet buyers. This provision also will allow animal rights activists to go on legal fishing expeditions by posing as puppy buyers.[/LIST][LIST][*]The definition of commercial dog breeder will entrap many serious hobbyists who are working hard to improve the breed of dogs they own. Anyone who produces 10 or more litters of puppies will fall under this category. It also will be illegal for anyone to possess more than 30 dogs that have not been spayed or neutered. Many serious breeders keep all of their retired dogs for the rest of their lives, and also are working with and evaluating several young dogs. Having 30 dogs does not indicate that a kennel is commercial. These breeders would be required to microchip all dogs and puppies, and to obtain veterinary certification before breeding a dog. The legislation also would create a strict puppy lemon law.[/LIST][LIST][*]Outdoor housing will be banned for these kennels, which is hazardous for dogs that are used for hunting, herding and other activities. The bill requires temperatures between 65 and 78 degrees at all times. Most human homes in Indiana could not meet that requirement! Working dogs do their jobs in all kinds of weather, and it is dangerous for them if they are not acclimated to the conditions they will face. It is cruel, absurd and reckless to pass a law that forces people to keep sled dogs, hunting dogs or herding dogs in a heated environment, when those dogs will face winter weather extremes.[/LIST][LIST][*]And the legislation specifically allows municipalities to pass laws that are more strict or detailed than the state law.[/LIST]
Here is a link to the text of HB 1468: http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2009/HB/HB1468.1.html . This is the amended version that passed the committee. Earlier versions may not contain the amendment.

The American Sporting Dog Alliance is urging every Indiana dog owner to immediately contact his or her representative, and as many other representatives as you can. This is urgent, because this legislation can be brought up for a vote in the House at any time.

Because time is of the essence, please email, phone or fax the representatives now to express your opposition and to ask them to oppose HB 1468. Then, please follow-up with a letter through the mail or by fax.

Here are the representatives email contact information: http://www.in.gov/cgi-bin/legislative/contact/contact.pl .

This link will lead to each representatives home page, which contains full contact information: http://www.in.gov/cgi-bin/legislative/listing/listing.pl?data=alpha&chamber=House .

[Nancy1999]

"It will destroy the rescue network in Indiana. While rescue groups are exempt, a person or organization that breeds dogs cannot qualify for this exemption."

The latest scam is puppy millers breeders who are claiming to have rescues. They find it harder to unload their dogs to pet stores so they have set up "rescues" and sell their pups for more than they did before. These dogs are seldom vet checked or neutered. I know many good breeders work with rescues, but if this bill stops dog breeders from getting this exception, I think that is great, and good breeders can still be "involved" with rescues they just can't run them, and qualify for the exemption.

"Anyone who sells five or more dogs to the public in a year will be classified as a pet dealer. Thus, in many cases, even having a single litter of puppies will require extensive record-keeping of all dogs sold and all veterinary records, and require the dog owner to make that information available to law enforcement officials and potential pet buyers. This provision also will allow animal rights activists to go on legal fishing expeditions by posing as puppy buyers."

What is wrong with the idea that people selling dogs should be required to keep extensive records and all veterinary records, and this information be available, to law enforcement officials and potential pet buyers? Don't good breeders do this now? So many breeders lie to potential customers, and this would allow the pet buyer access to important information. Sure even animal rights activists might pose as potential customers, but they do this now anyway.

"The definition of commercial dog breeder will entrap many serious hobbyists who are working hard to improve the breed of dogs they own. Anyone who produces 10 or more litters of puppies will fall under this category."

Ten litters of puppies is a lot of puppies, wouldn't a reasonable person think this qualities as commercial breeder? What is the number that good breeders think is more appropriate?

"It also will be illegal for anyone to possess more than 30 dogs that have not been spayed or neutered. Many serious breeders keep all of their retired dogs for the rest of their lives, and also are working with and evaluating several young dogs. Having 30 dogs does not indicate that a kennel is commercial"

Thirty unneutered dogs seem like a reasonable number to me, what is the number that you feel is reasonable?


Having 30 dogs does not indicate that a kennel is commercial. These breeders would be required to microchip all dogs and puppies, and to obtain veterinary certification before breeding a dog. The legislation also would create a strict puppy lemon law.

That would be great!

"Outdoor housing will be banned for these kennels, which is hazardous for dogs that are used for hunting, herding and other activities. The bill requires temperatures between 65 and 78 degrees at all times. Most human homes in Indiana could not meet that requirement! Working dogs do their jobs in all kinds of weather, and it is dangerous for them if they are not acclimated to the conditions they will face. It is cruel, absurd and reckless to pass a law that forces people to keep sled dogs, hunting dogs or herding dogs in a heated environment, when those dogs will face winter weather extremes."

This part of the law may need work, but some dogs do require these temperatures, for example yorkies, and remember this is where babies are born, they don't keep the puppies in the kennels for that long, and you could acclimate them to colder temperatures after they are 8 weeks or whatever the age is.

"And the legislation specifically allows municipalities to pass laws that are more strict or detailed than the state law. "

Now why would the law do this? Do you think so that it could target puppy mills?


The American Sporting Dog Alliance is urging every Indiana dog owner to immediately contact his or her representative, and as many other representatives as you can..

If you are getting any information from the American Sporting Dog Alliance, read it with a huge grain of salt. They are a group made up of "hunters and farmers." "Farmers" are the biggest puppy mill operators, so of course they are going to hate any bill that has an impact on them. I hope good breeders and dog lovers get involved. We need to pass reasonable laws, and these seem close to being reasonable. So many good breeders say, "Puppy mills are the problem, if we could just shut those down", but you can't do that in America without a law permitting it. Yet, when a reasonable law comes up, you want to believe the propaganda put out by the puppy mill lobby. Our Goals @ americansportingdogalliance.org

[Wylie's Mom]

Wonderful and thoughtful post, Nancy. I'm in agreement with all of your comments.

[yoursotino]

We believe in hunting and farming in Indiana it is sad to think that people think Lab, Beagle, Coon Hound, Golden Retrievers, Border Collies, are only to be used as pets these are listed as Working Dogs. It is insulting comment to say that all farmers run puppymills and inaccurate. Most puppymill that are not associated with the Amish are not ran by farmers. This bill is taking the right to breed and raise dogs for show or to just raise puppies to improve on the breed. My father was a hunter both my boys and most of our friends. Some use dog and some don't. If you were lost in the woods I am sure that you would be really happy to see a person with search and rescue coming to find you. They are working dogs and kept outside the indoor temperature ruin there search abilities. They would not be acclimated to the temperature to be able to work. This bill is going to keep people who raise larger dogs from doing so it is not all about Yorkies there are other breeds of dog even though we all think they are the only breed LOL

[yoursotino]

There would not be puppymills if people would stop buying from them.!!!!!!!!! !!!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yoursotino

We believe in hunting and farming in Indiana it is sad to think that people think Lab, Beagle, Coon Hound, Golden Retrievers, Border Collies, are only to be used as pets these are listed as Working Dogs. It is insulting comment to say that all farmers run puppymills and inaccurate. Most puppymill that are not associated with the Amish are not ran by farmers. This bill is taking the right to breed and raise dogs for show or to just raise puppies to improve on the breed. My father was a hunter both my boys and most of our friends. Some use dog and some don't. If you were lost in the woods I am sure that you would be really happy to see a person with search and rescue coming to find you. They are working dogs and kept outside the indoor temperature ruin there search abilities. They would not be acclimated to the temperature to be able to work. This bill is going to keep people who raise larger dogs from doing so it is not all about Yorkies there are other breeds of dog even though we all think they are the only breed LOL

I didn't mean to insult farmers, but many puppy mills are operated on puppy "farms." I think breed specific legislation would be great, is that what you are suggesting? For what I understand, this bill addresses "breeding", not those adult dogs who are kept for training for search and rescues. I would imagine that there could be an exemption for this. Like I said earlier the temperature rule seemed to need work, but I don't know specifically a better parameter, and remember the temperature rule only apllies to commercial breeders. Do you believe that puppies should be allowed to be born and kept in any temperature, whatever nature decides?

Laws are going to come whether we like it or not, do you want the laws written by commercial breeders, who would like to put the small breeder out of business, after all that is the competition. Do you want the laws written by extreme animal rights activists, who would like to see no pets, and also believe that there is no difference between dogs and livestock? Or do you want to see the laws written by good breeders who really love dogs? It's your choice, but just voting no, on any animal legislation, won't work for long.

I support the AKC in many of their efforts, but you must remember that their membership still includes many commercial breeders. I'm not totally against commercial breeding, but I want kennel condition standards raised. Until laws are passed, the AKC can't get rid of some of its puppy mill members. They can only suspend someone who is breaking state law.

[MntSnowBabies]

Here are my opinions on a few points of the law.

"Anyone who sells five or more dogs to the public in a year will be classified as a pet dealer. Thus, in many cases, even having a single litter of puppies will require extensive record-keeping of all dogs sold and all veterinary records, and require the dog owner to make that information available to law enforcement officials and potential pet buyers. This provision also will allow animal rights activists to go on legal fishing expeditions by posing as puppy buyers."

"What is wrong with the idea that people selling dogs should be required to keep extensive records and all veterinary records, and this information be available, to law enforcement officials and potential pet buyers? Don't good breeders do this now? So many breeders lie to potential customers, and this would allow the pet buyer access to important information. Sure even animal rights activists might pose as potential customers, but they do this now anyway."

Well said Nancy! I agree whole heartily!

"The definition of commercial dog breeder will entrap many serious hobbyists who are working hard to improve the breed of dogs they own. Anyone who produces 10 or more litters of puppies will fall under this category."

Ten litters is quite alot of puppies. Yes this will be obtained in a few years with serious breeders, but if they are respectable breeders there will be little to worry about with their records and the laws.

"It also will be illegal for anyone to possess more than 30 dogs that have not been spayed or neutered. Many serious breeders keep all of their retired dogs for the rest of their lives, and also are working with and evaluating several young dogs. Having 30 dogs does not indicate that a kennel is commercial"

I agree that having 30 dogs does not indicate that a kennel is commercial, but having 30 dogs that have not been spayed or neutered is a bit extreme. I know that many serious breeder keep all of their retired dogs, but by that time (if their still not showing them) they will have had them spayed or neutered, so I am thinking having more than 15 is pushing it. A good breeder shouldn't have more than that in my opinion (7 dams, and 8 sires or something like that).

Having 30 dogs does not indicate that a kennel is commercial. These breeders would be required to microchip all dogs and puppies, and to obtain veterinary certification before breeding a dog. The legislation also would create a strict puppy lemon law.

That would be great!! Don't most respectible breeders do this anyways?

"Outdoor housing will be banned for these kennels, which is hazardous for dogs that are used for hunting, herding and other activities. The bill requires temperatures between 65 and 78 degrees at all times. Most human homes in Indiana could not meet that requirement! Working dogs do their jobs in all kinds of weather, and it is dangerous for them if they are not acclimated to the conditions they will face. It is cruel, absurd and reckless to pass a law that forces people to keep sled dogs, hunting dogs or herding dogs in a heated environment, when those dogs will face winter weather extremes."


I feel that there may need to be something added into this section of the bill for those who raise working dogs. I agree that the conditions would be ideal for the puppy growing up, and then at 8-12 weeks they can have the right to be transfered to cooler weather depending on the breeds. This way the puppy has the warmth to stay healthy and then they can also have the adjustment time to the cooler weather before they go to their new homes.


We can't all have the laws go our way unfortunatly, but there are always ways that we can work with them.

[yoursotino]

I agree that rules need to be made but this bill does not do that all it does keep people like myself who has 3 females from having puppies in hopes of having one or two to show. I do not sell puppies for breeding the are all petted out. the rules that are in this bill are crazy. My contract says I will replace a puppy with another when one is available not refund money. 15 days is a long time to mess up puppy. Not all people unfortunatley do what they should when they get their puppy home. We had one that we sold that she left her and went to Dinky a Amish auction barn for the evening. Wow what a place to pick up germs. I want puppy mill shut down as much as the next person but this bill will not do that. If they would enforce the Agi restriction that all ready apply they could shut them down. Like I said before if people would do their homework and not buy from Puppymills in the first place there would be no puppy mills. i dont believe the governmant has a right to tell me how many dogs or animals I can own. As long as I take care of them. Vets should report sick or injured dogs to the correct officals this in my eyes would also me a solution. I hope I dont sound like a radical person but I just truely believe will all my heart this is bad bill. It needs to be written by people who raise dogs and show. That are not associated with petstores or puppymills.

[yoursotino]

I for one and i am sure i speak for other show breeder do not want to be labeled as a "PET DEALER" I am show breeder I work very hard at what I do. I do not hire handlers or groomers I do it myself I raise my dogs and take care of them I follow up on my puppies to make sure they are happy in their new homes and with AKC I have to keep records which I have no problem with doing. but I think our government is messing things up enough with our economy with out worring about if I sell more then 5 puppies a year. It is all about the money some way for them to collect more money from hard working americans. now i will step down off my soap box hope I didnt offend anyone