I want a Female Yorkie!

[WV~Yorkies]

To the OP: I have a waiting list for my next litter. If you would like more information feel free to fill out my puppy application and we can go from there.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

That's nearly a Bingo for me, thus I'd agree. Nothing is all one way or the other, but some people can be convinced it is...and that's where unfounded statement presented as a fact can do a lot of harm.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by WV~Yorkies

To the OP: I have a waiting list for my next litter. If you would like more information feel free to fill out my puppy application and we can go from there.

wouldn't that require shipping? Isn't the OP from Chicago? One post is watch out for breeders that PM, the next watch out for breeders that ship. Appears nearly everyone one loses here...sadly most often the potential buyer...who out of so much confusion and misinformation simply picks up the nearest pup, by passing all the bickering.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

wouldn't that require shipping? Isn't the OP from Chicago? One post is watch out for breeders that PM, the next watch out for breeders that ship. Appears nearly everyone one loses here...sadly most often the potential buyer...who out of so much confusion and misinformation simply picks up the nearest pup, by passing all the bickering.

Wrapping up in one small package...Research your breeder, a breeder that is close enough for one to visit.

I think there is misinterpretation on what is meant by breeder's PMing newbies looking for a pup. As in every organization, being a YT member does not automatically make a breeder or potential puppy buyer the best. I've seen on many threads....oh! my puppy went to a YT member or breeder so and so is a YT member, and just based on that they are great.

So, what has been mentioned here is telling the OP; buyer beware and do your homework. You buy your breeder first then your pup.

I've witnessed several breeders follow newbie threads and the only posts you see from these breeder YT members is I've got pups or I have a litter due....

Just in the last week there was a pup that was purchased from a YT Member, and the pup died of Parvo....the communication and purchase was made via PMs. It happens all the time.

[WV~Yorkies]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

wouldn't that require shipping? Isn't the OP from Chicago? One post is watch out for breeders that PM, the next watch out for breeders that ship. Appears nearly everyone one loses here...sadly most often the potential buyer...who out of so much confusion and misinformation simply picks up the nearest pup, by passing all the bickering.

No I wouldn't have to ship. I don't mind road trips

[miabellaamoure]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Wrapping up in one small package...Research your breeder, a breeder that is close enough for one to visit.

I think there is misinterpretation on what is meant by breeder's PMing newbies looking for a pup. As in every organization, being a YT member does not automatically make a breeder or potential puppy buyer the best. I've seen on many threads....oh! my puppy went to a YT member or breeder so and so is a YT member, and just based on that they are great.

So, what has been mentioned here is telling the OP; buyer beware and do your homework. You buy your breeder first then your pup.

I've witnessed several breeders follow newbie threads and the only posts you see from these breeder YT members is I've got pups or I have a litter due....

Just in the last week there was a pup that was purchased from a YT Member, and the pup died of Parvo....the communication and purchase was made via PMs. It happens all the time.

Thank you Mary for your input!

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by WV~Yorkies

No I wouldn't have to ship. I don't mind road trips

ahhh, but then you run the risk of being accused of being a "bad" breeder because you didn't let them come to your home. The road trip offer would be taken as an effort to disguise you're hiding where your Yorkies are bred. (apparently, even the willingness to meet them down the block is a bad thing)

(No, I don't think you are a bad breeder, as I don't know you, but you can see where nearly every suggestion is turned around on the poster)

[shodanusmc]

Dave, did you ever find a pup? As you can see, yout thread spun out of control. Best of luck, and hope you do all the right things.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by miabellaamoure

Thank you Mary for your input!

I agree

[Lil Sis]

Sometimes when an discussion goes out of control it is hard to see what really is being said. Like the old saying "can't see the forest for the trees"

all of you have good points. I hope dave finds a great puppy.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

Ok, so that explains in part why you feel those that PM that they have a puppy available may be less than legit; however, your limited experience does not mean everyone from YT that PM's someone they have a pup available is less than reputable and you don't do the searcher any favors by implying it does. That's what I'm saying.
If I, on the other hand, were to go to a public forum and actually request if anyone had a puppy for sale would be very appreciative of all PM's - yes, then it would be up to me to go through them and speak with the people, weed out the bad, keep the good.
Caveat Emptor is an apt response, but so common, it's hardly worth the mention, as the average person is smart enough to figure it all out but why eliminate some of the really good pups out there that might be available to them because you happen to have had a bad experience (or if you simply ignored the PM's you really don't know what you would have gotten, correct (good or bad)?
I would think the responses received from here would more likely be a better shot of getting a good dog over, and to automatically exclude those PM's limits one's choices. No need for anyone to state how 7 years ago their second cousin on their Aunt Millie's side got a PM and got a sick dog, etc., etc. We all know that can happen, but it can also happen someone will get a good dog too.

Kendra -- Steve did not say don't buy from anyone who pm's -- he said BEWARE and I think from the large number of reported problems of people who do this when they are NOT reputable, that is good advice. If a person is being warned of this problem, they can sift through the PMs they get and probably pick yours out in a heartbeat over many others who will not have any sort of criteria for potential buyers other than $$$$$. Most of the disreputable sellers via PMs are selling at reduced prices from what I hear, and not requiring any sort of application procedure. I only received a few over the years and it has been quite a while since I have received one. But I have gotten the offer of a pup at a reduced price, non-AKC, less than 12 weeks old, and they asked me no questions at all!

Many people have written posts about these experiences lately. Often they are selling NON-AKC pups from non-standard parents. The pups wind up not looking like quality Yorkies and there are usually poor or non-existant health guarantees. There are many breeders who will not openly post about their litters for fear of being outed for their non-standard and often unethical practices. Yorkietalk as a whole has gotten to be a group of much more savvy buyers than in past years. We have a few members that are alerting to problem breeders. That makes many of the BYBs afraid of the public forums.

I have only had two Yorkie litters. The first all went to family & friends. The second I had most spoken for but had 2 males to sale. I put the litter on Yorkietalk for a few days and even sent a PM in response to one person asking for a puppy. The PM never got beyond the initial contact, and if it had, I have a thorough application,require a vet referral, and felt I could ensure only good homes for my pups. So, I figured as an initial contact only, it would be okay. After talking about ethical advertising with other members here on YT and really looking at what YTCA recommends, I decided to ask the thread be closed and vowed never to PM about a puppy again. I am always in learning mode.

It should be a good way to make an initial contact..... I see your point. Unfortunately, because so many BYBs are using that method, I think maybe it has become tainted. Still.....since you are using it ONLY as an intial contact with many steps yet between that first PM and the decision to sell a puppy to the person, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. I would really think about it though. I have had to change some of my initial thoughts after further education. I gladly forego contacts by PM to make sure I am not associated with the many BYBs that are taking that avenue!

Steve's advice to people to BEWARE of strangers just wanting to sell you a dog refers to those who are offering a sale right off the bat without knowing anything about a person. They are also strangers to YT as most of them do not post openly and some do not admit to being breeders when they do post. That does happen in the For Sale section on YT too. For instance, one breeder actually said, "the first $500 takes this pup home!" Seriously! That is the same attitude that most of the people selling by PMs are taking too. Just "show me the money." SAD!

Hopefully this explains it better from my point of view and maybe Steve's but I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth.

[FlDebra]

Davidgirl -- Since price seems to be your issue right now.....I would look into rescues a little more. What rescues have you contacted?
Here is a sticky with a list of rescue organizations & contact info: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...nizations.html
Also be sure to read the many homes needed in this thread: Yorkie Rescues & New Homes Needed - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community There is a girl in TN that could use a home! I know it is a little far from Chicago, but maybe a yorkie train could help with transportation. The important thing about rescues is to get your application in so they can research you and get you on the approved list, so when one comes available that is a good match for you -- you can be selected.

If you can't rescue, I would follow Steve's advice, don't take the cut-rate puppy that winds up costing thousands in vet fees. Look for a reputable breeder, as the ones in his link to you (in the first reply you received in this thread) -- if you cannot afford them, wait.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Kendra -- Steve did not say don't buy from anyone who pm's -- he said BEWARE and I think from the large number of reported problems of people who do this when they are NOT reputable, that is good advice. If a person is being warned of this problem, they can sift through the PMs they get and probably pick yours out in a heartbeat over many others who will not have any sort of criteria for potential buyers other than $$$$$. Most of the disreputable sellers via PMs are selling at reduced prices from what I hear, and not requiring any sort of application procedure. I only received a few over the years and it has been quite a while since I have received one. But I have gotten the offer of a pup at a reduced price, non-AKC, less than 12 weeks old, and they asked me no questions at all!

Many people have written posts about these experiences lately. Often they are selling NON-AKC pups from non-standard parents. The pups wind up not looking like quality Yorkies and there are usually poor or non-existant health guarantees. There are many breeders who will not openly post about their litters for fear of being outed for their non-standard and often unethical practices. Yorkietalk as a whole has gotten to be a group of much more savvy buyers than in past years. We have a few members that are alerting to problem breeders. That makes many of the BYBs afraid of the public forums.

I have only had two Yorkie litters. The first all went to family & friends. The second I had most spoken for but had 2 males to sale. I put the litter on Yorkietalk for a few days and even sent a PM in response to one person asking for a puppy. The PM never got beyond the initial contact, and if it had, I have a thorough application,require a vet referral, and felt I could ensure only good homes for my pups. So, I figured as an initial contact only, it would be okay. After talking about ethical advertising with other members here on YT and really looking at what YTCA recommends, I decided to ask the thread be closed and vowed never to PM about a puppy again. I am always in learning mode.

It should be a good way to make an initial contact..... I see your point. Unfortunately, because so many BYBs are using that method, I think maybe it has become tainted. Still.....since you are using it ONLY as an intial contact with many steps yet between that first PM and the decision to sell a puppy to the person, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. I would really think about it though. I have had to change some of my initial thoughts after further education. I gladly forego contacts by PM to make sure I am not associated with the many BYBs that are taking that avenue!

Steve's advice to people to BEWARE of strangers just wanting to sell you a dog refers to those who are offering a sale right off the bat without knowing anything about a person. They are also strangers to YT as most of them do not post openly and some do not admit to being breeders when they do post. That does happen in the For Sale section on YT too. For instance, one breeder actually said, "the first $500 takes this pup home!" Seriously! That is the same attitude that most of the people selling by PMs are taking too. Just "show me the money." SAD!

Hopefully this explains it better from my point of view and maybe Steve's but I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth.

The implication that all who PM are not on the up and up was there as it is more often than not in these types of posts. The fact is it isn't true and shouldn't be implied to people as a fact.
As far as reducing prices...so? We have one boy left. I want him to go to a home while he's still young and will bond very easily to someone, we plan to reduce his price, that doesn't make him any less quality or of any less health...what it makes him is a really good deal for someone looking for a great Yorkie pup. We have him left (I believe) because I'm honest with people I tell them he'll go to at least 6 1/2, possibly 7 pounds...what's the common response?: "oh I wanted a SMALL Yorkie" as though 7 pounds isn't a SMALL dog!!! lol Also, his ears don't stand perfectly - up and down, but we all know that could be teething, etc. Of course, when someone comes to look at him, his ears are down!!! haha. He is an absolute sweetheart, smart as can be, very healthy. Yeah, for me to reduce his price is just a bonus to the buyer. The bigger problem is I'm not comfortable shipping cargo, thus my "market" is very limited, so I do think it'd be nice to PM someone IN MY AREA looking for a nice pup, yes, then they should talk to me and I to them, without them automatically thinking they're being scammed by anyone they received PM's from as the truth is they probably are NOT being scammed. Give the buyer some credit for having a brain.

[kjcmsw]

An interesting article:

WHAT NOT TO DO WHEN SELLING A PUPPY, by E. Katie Gammill

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

The implication that all who PM are not on the up and up was there as it is more often than not in these types of posts. The fact is it isn't true and shouldn't be implied to people as a fact.
As far as reducing prices...so? We have one boy left. I want him to go to a home while he's still young and will bond very easily to someone, we plan to reduce his price, that doesn't make him any less quality or of any less health...what it makes him is a really good deal for someone looking for a great Yorkie pup. We have him left (I believe) because I'm honest with people I tell them he'll go to at least 6 1/2, possibly 7 pounds...what's the common response?: "oh I wanted a SMALL Yorkie" as though 7 pounds isn't a SMALL dog!!! lol Also, his ears don't stand perfectly - up and down, but we all know that could be teething, etc. Of course, when someone comes to look at him, his ears are down!!! haha. He is an absolute sweetheart, smart as can be, very healthy. Yeah, for me to reduce his price is just a bonus to the buyer. The bigger problem is I'm not comfortable shipping cargo, thus my "market" is very limited, so I do think it'd be nice to PM someone IN MY AREA looking for a nice pup, yes, then they should talk to me and I to them, without them automatically thinking they're being scammed by anyone they received PM's from as the truth is they probably are NOT being scammed. Give the buyer some credit for having a brain.

I have to disagree with this statement. Fact is, there have been more than a few isolated incidents of people using the PM system to sell their dogs that have resulted in some not so great outcomes. Just look at posting numbers and you can get an idea of who is here just to sell their dogs and who is here to educate about and just enjoy the breed. Frankly, if a dog and breeder is good enough to sell via pm's, shouldn't they be good enough to be out in the open about it? The pm's are targeted at newbies who may or may not have lurked around the site enough to know what to look for when choosing a breeder. There is an implied stamp of approval on the breeders who sell through here that really isn't deserved.

Honestly, I would LOVE to see this whole For Sale/Wanted section to go away. I know it's here as a convenience, but it's been abused far too often.