Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3380919)

Actually I know several that are independently wealthy :)

Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3381513)

This is very true..perhaps in all breeds, but the Yorkie breed seems to attract people with big bank accounts...but you can breed and finish dogs on a small bank account, I have proven that a few times.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3381218)

One of the "learnings" I will take from this thread, is that there will never be a case of "soley" numbers of annual litters, that can categorically state one way or the other, one is a good/poor/fair/better/best, breeder. Quite frankly it is not that simple as others have pointed out. And others have pointed out some of the other perhaps more important variables.

A reasonable question was asked, if there is say only 1 CH type dog in say 25 dogs, then you have 24 that are not CH quality...how is that bettering the breed?

I tried to allude to the answer in an earlier post of mine; if you are breeding to improve the standard, then the likelihood is very high, that this litter will all be good to very good representatives of the breed. That is 24 typey dogs, that actually look like Yorkies, have great temperament and health. If all breeders bred like this, then as another posted stated (look a golden retriever we see on the streets looks like a Golden, a GS like a GS), how come so often we can't be really sure if we are seeing a Yorkie? Then you would have Yorkies commonly seen on the street that would not be mistaken for whatever.

What we know from this list; instead we have lots of BYBERS, lots of individuals who want their female to have just one litter, lots of USDA licensed breeders who are NOT mandated to breed specific health test their breeding pairs, or required to breed only CH dogs. Then lets not forgot all the Yorkie mixes we have out there, some deliberately created, some/lots "oops" pregnancies.

Here is a dilemma. How many would be new Yorkie owners would you say there are annually in the USA? As a dog in the top 3 most registered and purchased breeds in North America; 25,000 new yorkies is not unreasonable to assume.

Now lets say 5000 of those yorkies will come from rescuse, shelters, or individual rehomes. That leaves us with 20,000 yorkies to be meet the demand. If one accepts the average litter size to be 4, that is 5,000 litters (or 5000 female yorkies to be bred every year).

The simple question is; where will all these litters come from? I can tell you there are not anywhere near 5,000 female yorkies being shown in any given year. The numbers are pretty staggering. If there are 200 different females being shown in any given year I'd be surprised, given the number I've seen at large shows. Given a safe breeding life of 6 years that still only gives you 1200 females when 5000 is needed.

Enter in the "mass or volumne" breeders and the BYBer's. Quite simply they wouldn't be breeding these, if they couldn't/didn't have a market for them. and that market is quite large indeed.

So looking at the numbers,one can see the extent of the problem, and can easily perceive the stress or pressure on our breed.

The sad reality is, there are just not enough "show breeders" to fulfill this demand. Where will the public go then? Well just exactly where they have gone. To the bybers, the pet stores, the mom and pop shop, and so on.

What is the solution???

Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3381508)

Very true..I have always lived in my dogs home..if they are not happy..believe me no one is happy!

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3381515)

Right there with you Pat. Donna and I can both attest to that. When traveling, you travel and share expenses. And of course that makes the traveling fun when you travel with people that share the same interest.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3381536)

Yup I can attest to that!! I'm surely not wealthy that's for sure! But if one studies the history of dog showing and when it all started it began with the very wealthy and they sure didn't get their money off the dogs...

Donna

Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3381575)

Dog showing started with the wealthy?

I don't know but would have expected the first yorkies shown to come from working class type people. Isn't the history that small dogs were the only dogs poorer people were allowed to have and that was to chase off vermin from the farms and factories?

I found this website page interesting:

Political and Environmental History of Terriers

Dog shows were a way for the newly emerging middle class in the UK and the United States to try to bestow status, prestige and exclusivity on themselves. Most terrier breeds were either created or "improved and standardized" at this time. -- a direct result of the selective breeding practices learned with cattle, sheep, chickens and pigeons.

Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3381575)

Dog showing started with the wealthy?

I don't know but would have expected the first yorkies shown to come from working class type people. Isn't the history that small dogs were the only dogs poorer people were allowed to have and that was to chase off vermin from the farms and factories?

I found this website page interesting:


Political and Environmental History of Terriers

Dog shows were a way for the newly emerging middle class in the UK and the United States to try to bestow status, prestige and exclusivity on themselves. Most terrier breeds were either created or "improved and standardized" at this time. -- a direct result of the selective breeding practices learned with cattle, sheep, chickens and pigeons.

Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3381610)

..the showing of Yorkies in America, did not start with the Yorkshire men..even in the UK dog shows were a rich mans sport...the poor man was working...in the USA our Yorkies were imported by the rich...who else could afford "such folly"..LOL

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3381584)

I'm not talking when just the terriers or yorkies got started in dog showing, I'm saying dog shows in general...Go read the history of Westminster Dog show Kennel Club. It was a rich man's sport. Go look at the history of the Westminster Kennel Club.

Donna

Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3381633)

Westminster may have a different class of people showing but your other post didn't indicate Westminster. I was only offering information that not all dogs shown were originally from the wealthy.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3381657)

I thought it was in Queen Victoria's time, that dog shows or the sport of breeding and showing began. I too either read or saw a special on that, but for the life of me, can't put my hands on the book/books.
And it was definitely mentioned it was by the rich and or titled classes.

I'll see if I can find an article on that.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3381657)

I thought it was in Queen Victoria's time, that dog shows or the sport of breeding and showing began. I too either read or saw a special on that, but for the life of me, can't put my hands on the book/books.
And it was definitely mentioned it was by the rich and or titled classes.

I'll see if I can find an article on that.