a question about coloring rules in the us

[straightsilk]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Anything else is just what it means, put two and two together...

I guess some of the judges see things differently than I do, and I'm stating things from my perspective and my interputation of what I know to be a good rear/front movement and good topline. I love a pretty dog but that doesn't make it the best representation of the breed. I saw a GORGEOUS yorkie in Vegas stacked on the floor, talk about a beautiful picture that is until I saw it's movement and then I made an ugly face because the rear movement was atrousious (misspelled Im sure). But again, that is what I saw from the sidelines, no the dog didn't win that day but did the next but it's points were taken away due to being in the wrong class...
I've said before, I'd rather be beat by a "good" dye job with good structure and movement than be beaten by a yorkie with a horrible topline, cripped rear ect...and I've been beaten by both and got more ticked off by the bad structure and movement than the one I knew was dyed. Never said it was right to dye but I can live with someone doing that than be beaten by a bad structured dog that should be in a loving pet home.
I can only do what I know is right and strive for the best I can.

I have yet to see an intelligent discussion about breed type on this forum. It's about time. One of the things the novice fails to see is while his or her opinion about a particular aspect of the exhibit may be far from ideal, there are definitely judges who will overlook a single fault in favor of exceptional type and for very good and sound reasons. Annie Clark is famous for having said, "you can get sound at the pound". Good judging and breeding are both a combination of art and science and experience.

And it's far easier to criticize both than do either well. The most successful among you will speak less and listen more.

I have a pretty clear recollection of your input into a previous conversation where you and one of your friends bragged about how you could dye a dog so well that the judge couldn't tell. I wish that every time you address this subject you would make that disclaimer.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

I have yet to see an intelligent discussion about breed type on this forum. It's about time. One of the things the novice fails to see is while his or her opinion about a particular aspect of the exhibit may be far from ideal, there are definitely judges who will overlook a single fault in favor of exceptional type and for very good and sound reasons. Annie Clark is famous for having said, "you can get sound at the pound". Good judging and breeding are both a combination of art and science and experience.

And it's far easier to criticize both than do either well. The most successful among you will speak less and listen more.

I have a pretty clear recollection of your input into a previous conversation where you and one of your friends bragged about how you could dye a dog so well that the judge couldn't tell. I wish that every time you address this subject you would make that disclaimer.

I will agree on your post higlighted in bold. I have to disagree with you regarding intelligent conversatons about breed type within YT threads.
I always listen to the professionals in my endeavor and the mentors I have and those that have been doing this for 20 plus years in the breeding and showing aspect of this endeavor. Those here on YT I see are very few show breeders so I believe the few of us that are here should "speak up" and not listen. You may see it as criticizim but I see it as being up front and frank and honest when I speak to those who ask for my opinion and advice.
Again, let me say, I do listen and watch more than you think out in the show and breeding world. The virtual world is just that.

I'm not sure I would call it bragging about dyeing to fool the judge because really one is not fooling the judge but fooling themselves. But, like I have stated, I'd rather be beat by a "good" dye job over something that should be in a pet home that has obivious structural faults that impedes the breed rather than improve it. I see no reason to add a disclaimer because you said so

Donna

[gemy]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

I have yet to see an intelligent discussion about breed type on this forum. It's about time. One of the things the novice fails to see is while his or her opinion about a particular aspect of the exhibit may be far from ideal, there are definitely judges who will overlook a single fault in favor of exceptional type and for very good and sound reasons. Annie Clark is famous for having said, "you can get sound at the pound". Good judging and breeding are both a combination of art and science and experience.

And it's far easier to criticize both than do either well. The most successful among you will speak less and listen more.

I have a pretty clear recollection of your input into a previous conversation where you and one of your friends bragged about how you could dye a dog so well that the judge couldn't tell. I wish that every time you address this subject you would make that disclaimer.

Let's talk type! What do we mean by type? One definition, is that which distinguishness this breed from all others, If you only got a glimpse or a profile what breed is this? Type is what makes a specific breed.

So what is breed "type" for the Yorkie? Let's start with a "small" toy breed, of compact shape and size, with long flowing hair, a self confident dog, inquisitive and active.

Type can blur boundaries between objective physical characteristics, and subjective ones; such as attitude, demeanour, and presence.

Through the breed clubs the world over, type is either overtly described, or implicity described. It is what judges look and is at least is part of their judging protocol.

the Yorkie shouldn't be shy, and fearful in the ring. Instead you want a Yorkie, to go out with confidence and a certain amount of sass! They should exhibit alertness, and inquisitiveness.

In demeanour one part of type is exemplified by attitude in the ring (and yes I know that is an artificial environment) . But that type has to be married to the structure and movement of the dog. Does this dog move like a Yorkie should? What is this Yorkies structure like...on table, and on observation?


Type can be an elusive concept or construct. But for dog fanciers, breeders, we do know in our heart of hearts when we have a typey dog.