learning question

[KYBLUE]

we know some color some do not and yes there is alot of teasing going on just not the top knot i saw one at a recent show that it was hard to tell if its movement was as bad as i thought or it was stepping on its coat
sometimes it is hard to see the real movement of a dog when the coat drags the floor but a bad top line or a low tail set is hard to hide

why cant we cut them all down and have them judged on what needs to be structure and movement just imagine how many would not be worthy at that time

i have seen lighter dogs showing up more and more in the ring this breed is so confusing at times i guess that is why it takes year's to perfect your lines and why so many are so protective of them

i do not think as many are coloring as there was 2 years ago

health is very important to me i have nothing with out it

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

as far as color and dying dogs, Mr. Willaim Usherwood had a lot to say about that in a commentary I saw some other place. I am looking for it now. he talked a lot about the purple and blue dogs and very bad dye jobs he has seen especially since the standard has changed. probably some of you have read the same thing I did. yes, Mary professional people can dye dogs till it is hard to detect but even being a novice, I have seen some that were handled by top people and were so obviously dyed I could tell it. I'm not trying to be argumentative either but "most" dye jobs are easily detected. I only wish I could do a decent job. LOL I am going to start practicing on my little light Ceeby.

I think you are seeing less dye jobs now that the DQ is in place and more exhibitors are holding out until they clear. What i find funny is when someone says well that yorkie is dyed and I've heard and someone has actually said to me personally that dog is so dyed and I had to say it's so "NOT" dyed LOL....I knew the dog personally and knew it wasn't dyed...everyone thinks that the dog is enhanced when a judge actually was asked to take acohol to the coat and make sure because they were for sure it was dyed and wow low and behold the dog wasn't LOL...and in turn...the dog's handler said well since you wanted my dog tested I want yours and the funny thing was the test was done and the yorkie was excused for being colored LOL....funny how some things are perceived as one thing and it's not LOL

[bjh]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

we know some color some do not and yes there is alot of teasing going on just not the top knot i saw one at a recent show that it was hard to tell if its movement was as bad as i thought or it was stepping on its coat
sometimes it is hard to see the real movement of a dog when the coat drags the floor but a bad top line or a low tail set is hard to hide

why cant we cut them all down and have them judged on what needs to be structure and movement just imagine how many would not be worthy at that time

i have seen lighter dogs showing up more and more in the ring this breed is so confusing at times i guess that is why it takes year's to perfect your lines and why so many are so protective of them

i do not think as many are coloring as there was 2 years ago

health is very important to me i have nothing with out it

Rose, I know what you mean, I have seen some that look crippled but then it could be them stepping on the coat. I enjoy looking at pictures of yorkies in wraps because it is easier to see the structure. Too bad we can show them in wraps and then show them with the coat down.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

LOL, funny but I have had a breeder/exhibitors tell me their dog is enhanced and what products they used. Donna, I am not trying to argue with you, I feel structure is much more important than color. I am just saying that I wish people could just show their dogs without having to enhance the coats. I just like the natural look.

Barb,

And if they didn't those dogs would never be Championed.......I've seen dogs being dragged around for 3 or 4 years......too light or light at the topline making the topline appear bad and it wasn't and the exhibitor couldn't get the dog finished......

I just think we put too much emphasis on it the whole thing.........when health and structure are what should be the main concern. I'd prefer they show the dogs cut down, can't hide anything that way. But, that ain't gonna happen because the coat is part of the yorkie mystique.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I think you are seeing less dye jobs now that the DQ is in place and more exhibitors are holding out until they clear. What i find funny is when someone says well that yorkie is dyed and I've heard and someone has actually said to me personally that dog is so dyed and I had to say it's so "NOT" dyed LOL....I knew the dog personally and knew it wasn't dyed...everyone thinks that the dog is enhanced when a judge actually was asked to take acohol to the coat and make sure because they were for sure it was dyed and wow low and behold the dog wasn't LOL...and in turn...the dog's handler said well since you wanted my dog tested I want yours and the funny thing was the test was done and the yorkie was excused for being colored LOL....funny how some things are perceived as one thing and it's not LOL

Donna,

I was one of those exhibitors (and pre DQ) that a judge took alcohol to the coat.....Yep! Charmer.......because he was so dark.

And really the DQ was not in place to stop the enhancing but to keep the Parti out of the ring.

[KYBLUE]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Barb,

And if they didn't those dogs would never be Championed.......I've seen dogs being dragged around for 3 or 4 years......too light or light at the topline making the topline appear bad and it wasn't and the exhibitor couldn't get the dog finished......

I just think we put too much emphasis on it the whole thing.........when health and structure are what should be the main concern. I'd prefer they show the dogs cut down, can't hide anything that way. But, that ain't gonna happen because the coat is part of the yorkie mystique.

amen to that

[KYBLUE]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Donna,

I was one of those exhibitors (and pre DQ) that a judge took alcohol to the coat.....Yep! Charmer.......because he was so dark.

oh my i have not seen a judge do that yet but i am sure the day will come
guess i do not need to learn to dye just keep trying to get it right

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Barb,

And if they didn't those dogs would never be Championed.......I've seen dogs being dragged around for 3 or 4 years......too light or light at the topline making the topline appear bad and it wasn't and the exhibitor couldn't get the dog finished......

I just think we put too much emphasis on it the whole thing.........when health and structure are what should be the main concern. I'd prefer they show the dogs cut down, can't hide anything that way. But, that ain't gonna happen because the coat is part of the yorkie mystique.

I agree, that is my whole point, too much emphasis on color. That is why I hope the YTCA makes some clarification to the standard.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

oh my i have not seen a judge do that yet but i am sure the day will come
guess i do not need to learn to dye just keep trying to get it right

I wasn't scared, because Charmer was not dyed......but, I didn't know what was going on........

You see sealing a coat has become so good, that one of the things that can detect it is swabbing it with alcohol.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Donna,

I was one of those exhibitors (and pre DQ) that a judge took alcohol to the coat.....Yep! Charmer.......because he was so dark.

And really the DQ was not in place to stop the enhancing but to keep the Parti out of the ring.

I didn't know that happened to Charmer! And yes you are correct on why the DQ was put into place. I don't like the DQ but it has stopped a lot of the enhancing. I love to see a beautiful yorkie with long flowing coat just floating around the ring! You know it's a beautiful sight when it just takes your breath away!!! When that happens you know it has good structure and movement when it takes your breath away...and the color is the last thing on my mind when I see a simply stunning yorkie floating around the ring with the attitude and just simply stunning!!! You will know it when you see it and you'll say why was I worried who enhances....

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

I agree, that is my whole point, too much emphasis on color. That is why I hope the YTCA makes some clarification to the standard.

They say the standard cannot be opened up again for another 4 years....but, I'm not sure it's going to be opened up so readily again. The AKC had too much input and tied our hands as to the wording. So, we are stuck with a fine kettle of fish. But, all in all if you look at it in retrospect there really hasn't been that many dogs that have been DQ'd.

And even at that......blue/gold, etc. is still in the eyes of the beholder.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

I agree, that is my whole point, too much emphasis on color. That is why I hope the YTCA makes some clarification to the standard.

Parti's shouldn't be in the ring so that is why the DQ was added.....you know...if one enhances the color it won't matter if the standard changes again if you want a certain color those will continue to enhance just like tying of ears, teasing a top line, teasing the low tail set ect....but really it's all just cosmetic anyway....more need to worry about how the dog is put together structurely and health wise vs....who enhance or anything else cosmetic....changing the standard isn't going to change the cosmetic enhancements...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I wasn't scared, because Charmer was not dyed......but, I didn't know what was going on........

You see sealing a coat has become so good, that one of the things that can detect it is swabbing it with alcohol.

Yep! Besides that, several times coming out of the ring I had judges pull me aside to look at his coat....The first or second time it happened, I asked the judge what they were looking for? She explained they were looking for color pattern.....and that he had one that was almost perfect.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Parti's shouldn't be in the ring so that is why the DQ was added.....you know...if one enhances the color it won't matter if the standard changes again if you want a certain color those will continue to enhance just like tying of ears, teasing a top line, teasing the low tail set ect....but really it's all just cosmetic anyway....more need to worry about how the dog is put together structurely and health wise vs....who enhance or anything else cosmetic....changing the standard isn't going to change the cosmetic enhancements...

Very correct Donna, there are those that are going to do what they're going to do. And there are those that surgically enhance a dog.....now that is completely undetectable.

[Brooklynn]

I find it funny that coloring secrets are being shared with newbies when it's hard enough for experienced exhibitors to get just plain ole grooming tips....it's a sacared secret for some....and especially if they are coloring LOL...I do know someone that has colored and maybe still does and I can tell you now if you ask for the forumal they won't reveal it but will mix it up and mail it to ya so I find it hard those kinds of things are being told LOL...maybe Barb the ones you speak too are guilty LOL especially if they are sharing that info LOL...j/k