Opinions please

[bjh]

I would like to hear everyone's opinion on two things, the first is muzzle length. This is what the Yorkshire Terrier standard says:

Head
Small and rather flat on top, the skull not too prominent or round, the muzzle not too long, with the bite neither undershot nor overshot and teeth sound. Either scissors bite or level bite is acceptable. The nose is black. Eyes are medium in size and not too prominent; dark in color and sparkling with a sharp, intelligent expression. Eye rims are dark. Ears are small, V-shaped, carried erect and set not too far apart.

It says muzzle not too long. Well, what is too long? Is this just a matter of preference? Do those of you that show feel that judges place much emphasis on this? Also, I see some yorkies that appear to be down faced, some more than others. Where in the standard does it explain how the muzzle should be placed on the face or is this another thing that is left up to interpretation? I really think the yorkies that are not down faced have a much prettier expression.

I have attached a picture of a champion bitch that I took at a yorkie specialty show a few years ago. I love the expression on her face and I think muzzle placement has a lot to do with that. Do those of you that show think her muzzle is the correct length or should it be shorter or is it a matter of preference?

My second question is about size. I know, here we go again. I know the standard calls for not over 7 lbs but I know from my observation in going to shows that there are some beautiful yorkies being shown and finished that are over 7 lbs. I have also observed that a lot of the yorkies being shown are on the thin side. I know that some breeder keep them intentionally thin so they will not go over 7 lbs. Once they are finished and allowed to get a little meat on their bones they go over 7 lbs. I do know that showing can be stressful on some dogs and some of them really loose weight on the road. Does it hurt a dog in the show ring if they are too thin? Do you that show feel that if a dog is a good representative of the breed but a little over 7 lbs that it is okay to still show them? Where do you draw the line? I consider over 7 lbs a fault like a bad top line but if I had a choice between a dog with a bad top line or a dog slightly over standard size I would take the over sized dog. I have attached a picture of champion male that to me is too thin but I still do not have the experience to say if he is or is not. I would just like some enlightenment on the subject.

Also, those of you that show, do you free feed your dogs or just give them a specific amount of food to keep them from getting to fat?

[Bravo916]

Well, even though I am probably one of the greener ones in this breed I wanted to chime in,

The standard is vague when it comes to muzzle length--the "not too long" wording leaves it up for interpretation (ie. whatever the judges preference is). I think our best source is referring back to the illustrated supplemental standard which depicts the muzzle in relation to the head. In my own mind "not too long" means terrier but not as long as a silky--but again thats my own interpretation. I think the photo of your girl depicts a beautiful muzzle--it is not too long and it is perfectly perpendicular to the head. Its funny because our written standard does not address down-faced dogs or muzzle placement but the supplemental illustrated standard does.

As far as body goes, I have heard the word "cobby" being used by old-timers and by judges very familiar with the breed. The breed is not supposed to have a deep chest and narrow loin, as say a Doberman, but are supposed to be solid from chest to loin. Again this is in the illustrated standard.

I agree the boy in your photo is really on the thin side. I dont know that breeders intentionally try to keep their dogs thin--in my experience with my dog is that he just was not and still isn't a big eater. From about 13-20 months I was lucky to keep him at 5lbs which still made him look anorexic. Now that hes 2 he he still tends to stay on the slim side but at least he eats. My pup, on the other hand, is on a diet lol. I think it just has to do with maturity and the individual dog.

I have also seen dogs over 7lbs finish and if they have a lot to offer to the breed I dont think its an injustice. I do feel it is more acceptable to have a bitch slightly over the 7lb mark than a male. I havent yet seen a judge call for a scale lol but in our crazy world I wouldnt put it past one.

It is actually very disappointing when you really read the standard that is presented to judges versus the standard that the YTCA uses because I really feel that the written standard is so ambiguous. With the exception of color it could describe almost any small, prick-eared, long coated breed

[bjh]

Bravo.....thank you so much for you input. I am still learning too and I value others opinions that are showing. There are so many different 'looks' when it comes to yorkies that sometimes it get confusing as to what the perfect yorkie should look like. Even going by the YTCA illustrations sometimes it is hard to tell exactly what they are talking about unless you see the dog in the flesh. Sometimes I will look at a yorkie and think they are down faced then at another angle they don't look that way. There is so much to learn when it comes to proper structure and conformation.

[Sugar's Mom]

barbara, as you know I have not been showing very long. I think you are talking about what they call a down sloped muzzle. The girl in this picture has one and it looks odd at times. BUT, I had a judge show me how to place the bow to disguise it. yes, a judge. She got her championship at the age of seven months. She is a BIG girl. Right now, she is almost seven pounds. I am holding my breath because if she goes over, I won't show her in AKC. I did see a gorgeous special last fall that was winning everything and his owner told us he weighed 8-1/2 lbs. You would never have known it by his coat. The other girl I have that recently finished her championship was so thin I was almost embarrassed to put her on the table. I was afraid the judges would think I was starving her. i was doing everything I could to fatten her up. I free fed plus was feeding her so much extra that at times I overfed her. She weighed 4.3 and you could feel her backbone and ribs. Fortunately, she had a heavy coat (I cut it off). I casually mentioned to one judge that I was trying to fatten her up and the judge said, Oh no, you don't want to put weight on her. Now that she is a champion and just relaxes at home, she is up to five pounds. Go figure.

BTW these aren't show pictures so she isn't show groomed. I will see if I can find a picture where she is wet. You can really see her down sloped muzzle in those. They aren't supposed to be like that but judges don't seem to mind.

[Bravo916]

Originally Posted by bjh

Bravo.....thank you so much for you input. I am still learning too and I value others opinions that are showing. There are so many different 'looks' when it comes to yorkies that sometimes it get confusing as to what the perfect yorkie should look like. Even going by the YTCA illustrations sometimes it is hard to tell exactly what they are talking about unless you see the dog in the flesh. Sometimes I will look at a yorkie and think they are down faced then at another angle they don't look that way. There is so much to learn when it comes to proper structure and conformation.

I know what you mean--I am a picture kind of person and like you, prefer to see it in real life. I think the reason that so many breeds choose not to post pictures of an ideal dog is because they dont want to run the risk of people thinking that only a certain "type" or look of dog = conformation. Anywho, it doesnt make it any easier for people like us lol

[bjh]

Dee, thanks for sharing. I agree the girl is a little down faced but she does still has a pretty face. That is interesting about the bow placement. I had one show person tell me you can also disguise the down face by teasing the hair on the muzzle and then brushing it out so the muzzle looks level.

I have been wondering how you and Rose fared through the ice storm. I hope ya'll were not with out electricity a long time. It sure looked really bad in Kentucky.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by bjh

Dee, thanks for sharing. I agree the girl is a little down faced but she does still has a pretty face. That is interesting about the bow placement. I had one show person tell me you can also disguise the down face by teasing the hair on the muzzle and then brushing it out so the muzzle looks level.

I have been wondering how you and Rose fared through the ice storm. I hope ya'll were not with out electricity a long time. It sure looked really bad in Kentucky.

Thanks Barbara. I was without power for six days. No heat or phone. We had a kerosene space heater that we used during the day and nearly froze at night. I had a hard time keeping my babies warm. They turned almost black from the soot. Finally, on the sixth day we were able to buy a generator from Lowes. I called right at closing time and they had a truck just pull in with a hundred of them. We had been all the way to Tennessee looing for a generator. Anyway, almost as soon as my hubby brought the generator home, the electric came on. Go figure!!!!!! But we are set for the next time. Rose fared a little better than me. She has a big wood fireplace. She brought me some candles and bottled water over one day.