question about showing and show quality

[YorkieRose]

I am not too proud to admit my age...so I am old enough to have been there to see many of these past champions in the ring and talk to the owners and breeders at one time or the other.

Higgins was sold to Bill Switzer as pet for his wife...his breeder, C. D.Lawrence did not think Higgins would be a good ring dog, size factor...the Switzers daughter, Marlene showed him...and he was a super showoff...he could almost talk...very animated.

Anne Rodgers Clark was the judge at the Garden who gave him the win...

PS...on another forum whenever I post something one member disagrees with, she always says...."things are different now, you are from the olden days...LOL

[Ladyhawk]

I'm glad there are some people around that were around than. There are somethings that can't be learned from books and it's so nice to have folks that were there to fill in the blanks. I have a pic of Marlene showing him (that dog had enough hair on his head!) but it must have been incredible to have been there. Thanks for sharing.

[lwolfe]

I just read about him in the book The Dog Show 125 Years of Westminster. Annie said that he was the best Yorkshire Terrier she had ever had her hands on.

I was showing in 1978 but I didn't pay much attention to Yorkies.

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I am not too proud to admit my age...so I am old enough to have been there to see many of these past champions in the ring and talk to the owners and breeders at one time or the other.

Higgins was sold to Bill Switzer as pet for his wife...his breeder, C. D.Lawrence did not think Higgins would be a good ring dog, size factor...the Switzers daughter, Marlene showed him...and he was a super showoff...he could almost talk...very animated.

Anne Rodgers Clark was the judge at the Garden who gave him the win...

PS...on another forum whenever I post something one member disagrees with, she always says...."things are different now, you are from the olden days...LOL

[lwolfe]

on another forum whenever I post something one member disagrees with, she always says...."things are different now, you are from the olden days...LOL

Pat - she is probably right, that you do things like we did in the old days. Back in the "olden days" we remembered that this was the sport of Queen Victoria. It was done with grace, style and good sportsmanship. Next time she accuses you of being from the olden days - say Thank You!

[shyorkies]

Originally Posted by ButterflyYorkie

Or you purchase what a breeder claimed to be show quality that turns out to be a pet quality at best. You trust a person and feeling less experienced you fall. Never buy an "outside of your own" for your program before 6 months of age. I learned this the hard way.

I remember the german shepard dog you are speaking of.

I on the other hand placed a puppy with someone I thought I could trust.. The verbal agreement was if the puppy did not turn out I would replace him or purchase him back.. After I received a call from the new owner stating his bite had went off I told her I could no longer replace him, as I did not feel comfortable about placing another dog with her because of certain things being brought to light.. But I did offer to purchase him back for the pet price she paid for him.. Last she stated he was going to be neutered and kept for a pet, but I have still not received conformation of him ever being altered.. Infact this boy was never placed as show quality, but a young prospect.. So it goes both ways and I will say I certainly learned the hard way at the expense of my puppy!~

[ButterflyYorkie]

Originally Posted by shyorkies

But I did offer to purchase him back for the pet price she paid for him..

I will make one public statement regarding this, and any future communication concerning it will be done privately on my part.

Melanie Hamilton sent me an email stating she had a puppy that she thought might be perfect for me and my daughter because she KNEW I was looking for a new male to show at that time. Ms. Hamilton knew I was not in the market for a "pet". She told me to think about it and offered him to me for 1000 dollars. I have record of this and her statements. I felt very fortunate at first and agreed to purchase him for my daughter to show in juniors. Before his shipment I asked her on two occassions if she planned to place him with me on a co-owner agreement, which she declined. Ms. Hamilton transferred the puppy into my name a few weeks before he was shipped to me. She placed him with me on full registration, in my name only. I do not believe that is what people do when placing pets.

We entered him in four akc shows in Hampton, Va. It is then that I had him evaluated by other long time exhibitors and a judge. I phoned Ms. Hamilton from my hotel and informed her of my findings regarding his bite. She told me very bluntly during our conversation that she did not plan to refund or replace my puppy, that in light of the disagreements we were having that she felt it best that I find a pet home for him myself, but to make sure I let her know where he went. He is with me to this day.
Yes, that was the verbal agreement that Ms Hamilton stated in her post. Ms. Hamilton did not fulfull any part of it. She did not offer to buy the puppy back. She washed her hands of it as soon as I informed her. I did not want a replacement pup from her.

I have made it a point to not bring up Ms. Hamilton's name, or my experience with her publicly and never would have until now. For the record I was not referring to Ms. Hamilton in my post above. Since she decided to wash her hands of me she has no idea what has happened in my life since my experience with her.
Ms. Hamilton,
I will be happy to give you the address of a mediator for you to send money ASAP. I will then ship you the dog and after you receive the dog, the mediator will release funds to me.

[shyorkies]

Originally Posted by ButterflyYorkie

I will make one public statement regarding this, and any future communication concerning it will be done privately on my part.

Melanie Hamilton sent me an email stating she had a puppy that she thought might be perfect for me and my daughter because she KNEW I was looking for a new male to show at that time. Ms. Hamilton knew I was not in the market for a "pet". She told me to think about it and offered him to me for 1000 dollars. I have record of this and her statements. I felt very fortunate at first and agreed to purchase him for my daughter to show in juniors. Before his shipment I asked her on two occassions if she planned to place him with me on a co-owner agreement, which she declined. Ms. Hamilton transferred the puppy into my name a few weeks before he was shipped to me. She placed him with me on full registration, in my name only. I do not believe that is what people do when placing pets.

We entered him in four akc shows in Hampton, Va. It is then that I had him evaluated by other long time exhibitors and a judge. I phoned Ms. Hamilton from my hotel and informed her of my findings regarding his bite. She told me very bluntly during our conversation that she did not plan to refund or replace my puppy, that in light of the disagreements we were having that she felt it best that I find a pet home for him myself, but to make sure I let her know where he went. He is with me to this day.
Yes, that was the verbal agreement that Ms Hamilton stated in her post. Ms. Hamilton did not fulfull any part of it. She did not offer to buy the puppy back. She washed her hands of it as soon as I informed her. I did not want a replacement pup from her.

I have made it a point to not bring up Ms. Hamilton's name, or my experience with her publicly and never would have until now. For the record I was not referring to Ms. Hamilton in my post above. Since she decided to wash her hands of me she has no idea what has happened in my life since my experience with her.
Ms. Hamilton,
I will be happy to give you the address of a mediator for you to send money ASAP. I will then ship you the dog and after you receive the dog, the mediator will release funds to me.

I will state the truth and anyone who would like to view the emails please feel free to PM me..

Truly thought I was helping a "friend", but I have learned there are people who will pretend to be your friend.. When the boy mentioned left my home he was a nice boy, but he was still a puppy! As we all know puppies can fall apart.. I truly thought I was helping Robbie Spaugh and her daughter, but after the fact I was alerted to certain issues which concerned me.. Robbie was told at a show his bite was off, she called me with the concern.. I told her I have had one puppy that their bite went off, but it did correct itself.. So she decided to wait it out.. I told her at the time I would not replace him because of the issues which were brought to my attention after the placement of the boy with Robbie.. I did at the time offer to bring him back to my home and she wanted to wait it out.. She also through this time on one occassion ask me who I may be placing as she might be interested in them! I have on more then one occasssion after the bite issue ask for pictures and updates on him to never receive a one! She had also stated during one conversation he was going in to be altered and I have never received confirmation concerning that issue either at this time.. I will not play this game with you Robbie.. You stated you would keep him in your home and always love him.. This is the last I will speak of it.. Just because someone places a post on a thread on a talk forum does NOT make it a fact and there are two sides to every story.. I will also state I was in NO hurry to place this boy, but did offer him to Robbie and her daughter for Junior Handling also.. This was the first breeding between the parents, which I did alert Robbie to and I did not know what the total outcome would be.. I have never made a profit from my dogs and I never will.. I do it for the love of the breed.. I can also state I had alot more invested in the litter of one puppy then what was paid for him.. I never placed him as a 'Show Quality Yorkie"! Robbie and her friend CJ wanted me to quit worrying about his maturing out and let Robbie have him, which was one of the biggest mistakes of my life.. Live and learn, it will never happen again.. I will also state when Robbie called me from her hotel room we spoke for at least 1-1 1/2 hours, so I did NOT tell her anything of the sort and she knows it! Like I mentioned if anyone would like to see the emails which state the truth please feel free to PM me..

[bjh]

I am truly sorry you two ladies are having to air your differences on a public forum. Let this be a lesson to anyone buying a Yorkie, whether from friend or stranger, also get a sales contract and make sure the contract is something you can live with and abide to. Sometimes when dealing with 'friends' one may assume to much and it can come back to haunt you.

[shyorkies]

Originally Posted by bjh

I am truly sorry you two ladies are having to air your differences on a public forum. Let this be a lesson to anyone buying a Yorkie, whether from friend or stranger, also get a sales contract and make sure the contract is something you can live with and abide to. Sometimes when dealing with 'friends' one may assume to much and it can come back to haunt you.

You are exactly right! I believe it is just better for all concerned to alter and place the puppies into a pet home which you decide to not keep back..

[love_me_cody]

Sunnie.. Your girl is beautiful!

[Sunnie]

Originally Posted by love_me_cody

Sunnie.. Your girl is beautiful!

Thank you so much. I feel so bad because I wasn't trying to stir up a can of worms. I was just asking a question because I am considering showing Rainbow. I just wondered if she had any kind of chance. Neither her mom or dad were sold to me as a "show prospect" although they do have some champions in thier lines, especially the mom (Sunshine). The breeder was considering showing her (Rainbow's Mom, Sunshine) but because of thier immenent move she decided to sell her (but not as a show prospect.) She did give me full registration on her because she is a beautiful little girl and comes from a line of free whelpers. But since she delivered Beamer and Rainbow thru a c-section I felt it best to spay her and Sunnie too. Beamer is a doll but I don't consider him to be show quality so he has been nuetered. Rainbow is gorgeous in my opinion and I just wondered if it would be possible to show her with any success since she isn't champion sired. I would hate to try to show her and feel foolish if she didn't have a chance in the world.

[shyorkies]

Originally Posted by Sunnie

Thank you so much. I feel so bad because I wasn't trying to stir up a can of worms. I was just asking a question because I am considering showing Rainbow. I just wondered if she had any kind of chance. Neither her mom or dad were sold to me as a "show prospect" although they do have some champions in thier lines, especially the mom (Sunshine). The breeder was considering showing her (Rainbow's Mom, Sunshine) but because of thier immenent move she decided to sell her (but not as a show prospect.) She did give me full registration on her because she is a beautiful little girl and comes from a line of free whelpers. But since she delivered Beamer and Rainbow thru a c-section I felt it best to spay her and Sunnie too. Beamer is a doll but I don't consider him to be show quality so he has been nuetered. Rainbow is gorgeous in my opinion and I just wondered if it would be possible to show her with any success since she isn't champion sired. I would hate to try to show her and feel foolish if she didn't have a chance in the world.

Sunni I wanted to apologize for hijacking your thread, I let my emotions get the best of..

I think Rainbow is a beautiful girl and I wish you best of luck in whatever you may decide to do!~

[shyorkies]

Originally Posted by Sunnie

Thank you so much. I feel so bad because I wasn't trying to stir up a can of worms. I was just asking a question because I am considering showing Rainbow. I just wondered if she had any kind of chance. Neither her mom or dad were sold to me as a "show prospect" although they do have some champions in thier lines, especially the mom (Sunshine). The breeder was considering showing her (Rainbow's Mom, Sunshine) but because of thier immenent move she decided to sell her (but not as a show prospect.) She did give me full registration on her because she is a beautiful little girl and comes from a line of free whelpers. But since she delivered Beamer and Rainbow thru a c-section I felt it best to spay her and Sunnie too. Beamer is a doll but I don't consider him to be show quality so he has been nuetered. Rainbow is gorgeous in my opinion and I just wondered if it would be possible to show her with any success since she isn't champion sired. I would hate to try to show her and feel foolish if she didn't have a chance in the world.

Sorry, but I also wanted to mention just because your girl is not championed sired does not mean she herself could not be a champion! There are some absolutely beautiful sires who are not champions, but come from excellent lines and do throw beautiful show potential puppies.. When a judge is going over your dog in the ring he does not know if he/she is champion sired, so if you have a beautiful example of the breed you have just as much chance winning your class as a champion sired yorkie.. I wish you the best of luck~

[bjh]

Sunnie, I think your girl looks good in the picture. It is hard to judge coat texture and structure from a picture. It might be worth while getting her evaluated by a show person. It is a lot of fun starting with a puppy, even if they aren't perfect. The first Yorkie I took in the ring was a dark soft coated bitch and I learned really fast that her coat was not proper but we had a good time.

[kathylynch]

Originally Posted by bjh

We would love to see pictures of your girl. I also meant to add last night that if you start with a show quality male and prove yourself in the ring then the breeder of your male would most likely be willing to sell you a suitable female to breed with your male if you were interesting in establishing your own show line, or they would recommend you to some other reputable breeder. Iwolfe is correct in saying if you are looking for a real show quality dog, he needs to be at least 6 months old. There are many, many so called show breeders that advertise show quality puppies but they are selling them at 12 weeks and there is no way of knowing at that age how the puppy will turn out. You need to buy from a show breeder that is currently active in the show ring and has champion dogs that they have actually produced themselves. I hope that one day you are able to get your dream dog. You are doing the right thing by asking questions now and leaning all that you can.

Barbra,
Didn't you get yogi your show prospect at 10 wks?
Just wondering?