Still trying to find the best dry food for my yorkie puppy

[Holly_QD]

You need to stop being rude to long time and respectable members of YT. Everyone is entitled to give any advise they please, facts or no facts. If you wish not to offend people, then don't say offensive things. You call them facts, but some if not all of your quotes are from dog food companies. I believed you referred to them as kibble pushers or something like that. Are you quoting Purina? LMAO. I am glad that your Yorkies are doing great and that you are their "guardian". There are quite a bit of people on here that have had a lot of experience with different foods and that is the advice that people seek. And suggesting a food that is not the highest in protein is NOT reckless, your condescending posts ARE!

[chickendido]

Like I said before, the truth hurts! And I stand by my posts. Respectable, long time YT er's? I guess everybody on here really knows each other personally? LMAO was used in the last comment, maybe it's more fitting now? This is an online blog, information exchange between dog owners, written comments. Taking it a bit too seriously??? Serious enough to try and attack me personally? I did NOT target anyone in specific, just posted general available reading! Last time I checked this is a free country, no? Freedom of speech? If anybody is offended by the fact that low protein does not cause liver disease and the points that I made regarding canine research, maybe I can remember to wrap it in a flower blanket next time ! Last time I checked all I did was post and quote accurate scientific information. I did not come to anybody's house and forcefully ejected kibble out of anybody's dog's mouth! Now that would be what I call offensive! To suggest that my point of view and saying so is condecending, offers no objective reasoning whatsoever as that would mean there's a different set of rules for people who joined this list sooner than I? What if I suggested that because I've had my dog for (almost) 12 years, someone who has less years invested is inferior to me? Would not be fair, would it?! Actual people(scientific studies) did actual research on actual dogs! Having said that, I don't need to do anything but be a responsible dog owner and homework on the subject matter, that I did! Just to clearify; I quoted some or one of the kibble pushers scientific evidence just to show that EVEN THEY know low protein is BAD! Can't wrap that fact in a flower blanket and I call it as I see it! If anything at all is offensive, it's giving junk advise to new dog owner's looking to improve their pet's health not make it worse! Why not just say; hey, I didn't do any research yet, so I can't give real concrete advise, just opinion!???? Don't most quotes ask to be corrected if found wrong? The problem is, SOME of these new pet owners actually take the advise of some other members and never investigate on their own because they think the advise given must be accurate, since it came from a long time, respectable YT member! Some advise here is good, some is not! I just happened to find a subject that needed a contrary point of view! I get questions all the time about raw, I refer them to articles, websites, scientific studies etc. and I don't just offer some advise I may or may not have heard somewhere. Has anybody tried low protein on their dog? If yes, what was the outcome? Care to feed low protein to your puppy? Willing to experiment? No? Then why advise to do so to somebody else? I actually care about those owners and I'd wish somebody had taken me aside a long time ago and had offered me accurate info! Isn't that what really matters? The dogs? Their health?

[Judy in Waco]

Originally Posted by chickendido

Like I said before, the truth hurts! And I stand by my posts. Respectable, long time YT er's? I guess everybody on here really knows each other personally? LMAO was used in the last comment, maybe it's more fitting now? This is an online blog, information exchange between dog owners, written comments. Taking it a bit too seriously??? Serious enough to try and attack me personally? I did NOT target anyone in specific, just posted general available reading! Last time I checked this is a free country, no? Freedom of speech? If anybody is offended by the fact that low protein does not cause liver disease and the points that I made regarding canine research, maybe I can remember to wrap it in a flower blanket next time ! Last time I checked all I did was post and quote accurate scientific information. I did not come to anybody's house and forcefully ejected kibble out of anybody's dog's mouth! Now that would be what I call offensive! To suggest that my point of view and saying so is condecending, offers no objective reasoning whatsoever as that would mean there's a different set of rules for people who joined this list sooner than I? What if I suggested that because I've had my dog for (almost) 12 years, someone who has less years invested is inferior to me? Would not be fair, would it?! Actual people(scientific studies) did actual research on actual dogs! Having said that, I don't need to do anything but be a responsible dog owner and homework on the subject matter, that I did! Just to clearify; I quoted some or one of the kibble pushers scientific evidence just to show that EVEN THEY know low protein is BAD! Can't wrap that fact in a flower blanket and I call it as I see it! If anything at all is offensive, it's giving junk advise to new dog owner's looking to improve their pet's health not make it worse! Why not just say; hey, I didn't do any research yet, so I can't give real concrete advise, just opinion!???? Don't most quotes ask to be corrected if found wrong? The problem is, SOME of these new pet owners actually take the advise of some other members and never investigate on their own because they think the advise given must be accurate, since it came from a long time, respectable YT member! Some advise here is good, some is not! I just happened to find a subject that needed a contrary point of view! I get questions all the time about raw, I refer them to articles, websites, scientific studies etc. and I don't just offer some advise I may or may not have heard somewhere. Has anybody tried low protein on their dog? If yes, what was the outcome? Care to feed low protein to your puppy? Willing to experiment? No? Then why advise to do so to somebody else? I actually care about those owners and I'd wish somebody had taken me aside a long time ago and had offered me accurate info! Isn't that what really matters? The dogs? Their health?

You have given me quite a bit to think about regarding protein in a dog's diet and I will do the research myself. Like you, I don't trust studies by dog food companies.

That said, you need to know that you may have done more harm than good with your posts today. The truth hurts? Yes. It can. It can also prejudice people AGAINST your view simply based on how you said it. Your attitude was taken by me at least to be more than a little....aggressively hostile? (I'm not sure that's the phrase I want here, but I'm going with it for now.)

Some forms of propaganda work because they appeal to emotion. Certain advertisements work because they appeal to the heart. And many people today will stop listening to you from now on because they were offended.

And that's a painful truth.

[chickendido]

Originally Posted by Judy in Waco

You have given me quite a bit to think about regarding protein in a dog's diet and I will do the research myself. Like you, I don't trust studies by dog food companies.

That said, you need to know that you may have done more harm than good with your posts today. The truth hurts? Yes. It can. It can also prejudice people AGAINST your view simply based on how you said it. Your attitude was taken by me at least to be more than a little....aggressively hostile? (I'm not sure that's the phrase I want here, but I'm going with it for now.)

Some forms of propaganda work because they appeal to emotion. Certain advertisements work because they appeal to the heart. And many people today will stop listening to you from now on because they were offended.

And that's a painful truth.

I appreciate your comment! People looking into research is what I truly wanted to accomplish here today if anything at all! If people only heard the person and not the message, that's something I have to live with as I am, as I am! Constructive responses are awesome! Any insight into my personality and why I feel so passionate about this, is pointless now and so I won't bore with it, not that it ever mattered here or today. Let's just say I have thick skin and always hope that people have the same! I chose to grab this the way I did because I am blunt, no excuses on my part! Not everybody's style, I get that, but to make an example, what offends one person, wakes up the other one, two or three, and that's another thing that happened today! I already offered apologies to people who felt offended, so with that said, I ain't no Mel Gibson, lol.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by chickendido

Like I said before, the truth hurts! And I stand by my posts. Respectable, long time YT er's? I guess everybody on here really knows each other personally? LMAO was used in the last comment, maybe it's more fitting now? This is an online blog, information exchange between dog owners, written comments. Taking it a bit too seriously??? Serious enough to try and attack me personally? I did NOT target anyone in specific, just posted general available reading! Last time I checked this is a free country, no? Freedom of speech? If anybody is offended by the fact that low protein does not cause liver disease and the points that I made regarding canine research, maybe I can remember to wrap it in a flower blanket next time ! Last time I checked all I did was post and quote accurate scientific information. I did not come to anybody's house and forcefully ejected kibble out of anybody's dog's mouth! Now that would be what I call offensive! To suggest that my point of view and saying so is condecending, offers no objective reasoning whatsoever as that would mean there's a different set of rules for people who joined this list sooner than I? What if I suggested that because I've had my dog for (almost) 12 years, someone who has less years invested is inferior to me? Would not be fair, would it?! Actual people(scientific studies) did actual research on actual dogs! Having said that, I don't need to do anything but be a responsible dog owner and homework on the subject matter, that I did! Just to clearify; I quoted some or one of the kibble pushers scientific evidence just to show that EVEN THEY know low protein is BAD! Can't wrap that fact in a flower blanket and I call it as I see it! If anything at all is offensive, it's giving junk advise to new dog owner's looking to improve their pet's health not make it worse! Why not just say; hey, I didn't do any research yet, so I can't give real concrete advise, just opinion!???? Don't most quotes ask to be corrected if found wrong? The problem is, SOME of these new pet owners actually take the advise of some other members and never investigate on their own because they think the advise given must be accurate, since it came from a long time, respectable YT member! Some advise here is good, some is not! I just happened to find a subject that needed a contrary point of view! I get questions all the time about raw, I refer them to articles, websites, scientific studies etc. and I don't just offer some advise I may or may not have heard somewhere. Has anybody tried low protein on their dog? If yes, what was the outcome? Care to feed low protein to your puppy? Willing to experiment? No? Then why advise to do so to somebody else? I actually care about those owners and I'd wish somebody had taken me aside a long time ago and had offered me accurate info! Isn't that what really matters? The dogs? Their health?

Chickendido, I agree with a lot of what you say. I am also a raw feeder and believe that dogs weren't meant to eat grains. I will never feed my dogs kibble again. It will be raw from now on. I think you really were just trying to get the facts out there, but you did come across as a little hostile. Maybe you weren't meant to - I'm sure you really were just trying to get the info out - you might just try to work on the tone you give it in. I have tried to educate on a couple threads about food as well and I try to do so in a tactful way. You'll get more people willing to listen to you if you present it in a less pushy way. It's hard to not be pushy about something you feel passionate about - I know that for sure (I can get a little worked up sometimes LOL) - but the key to getting people to listen is to not offend them in the process.

To the OP - As I said, I think raw is the way to go (my Lacy gets Natures Variety raw medallions) and homecooked would be another good option if you aren't so keen on serving raw food. I just think that if you are going to homecook, you are probably going to have to supplement and make sure you are balancing their diet. A lot of people on here could probably help with that. You also have to do that with raw if you aren't feeding a pre-packed raw like Natures Variety. If you really want to stay with canned or kibble, go for the premium brands. There are some good ones and not every one will work for every dog. Sometimes finding the right food for your dog is a little trial and error. It usually takes 6-8 weeks of feeding a diet to see the full effects of the food and to see if it's working for you. So far as Innova Evo - I haven't tried that with my dog but I did try it with both of my cats several months ago. I thought the idea of grain-free dry food sounded like a good idea and convienent but it ended up giving them severe diarrhea. I switched them to canned (mostly grain-free) and Nature's Variety raw and they have done great. My problem with the grain-free dry foods are that there is not much moisture there. That kibble is highly concentrated and your dog (or cat) has to drink a lot of water. I think high-protein diets work best if there is moisture in their food (such as raw or canned). If you think about it, that is how they naturally would be getting moisture in the wild...raw meat has a lot of moisture to it. I've heard a lot of people that have dogs and cats that do great on Evo and other grain-free kibbles, and I've heard a lot of people that have had pets that it just doesn't work for. I think if you are looking to go grain-free, it's better to go raw or canned. Good Luck finding a food for your puppy.

[SJK1113]

Originally Posted by chickendido

Like I said before, the truth hurts! And I stand by my posts. Respectable, long time YT er's? I guess everybody on here really knows each other personally? LMAO was used in the last comment, maybe it's more fitting now? This is an online blog, information exchange between dog owners, written comments. Taking it a bit too seriously??? Serious enough to try and attack me personally? I did NOT target anyone in specific, just posted general available reading! Last time I checked this is a free country, no? Freedom of speech? If anybody is offended by the fact that low protein does not cause liver disease and the points that I made regarding canine research, maybe I can remember to wrap it in a flower blanket next time ! Last time I checked all I did was post and quote accurate scientific information. I did not come to anybody's house and forcefully ejected kibble out of anybody's dog's mouth! Now that would be what I call offensive! To suggest that my point of view and saying so is condecending, offers no objective reasoning whatsoever as that would mean there's a different set of rules for people who joined this list sooner than I? What if I suggested that because I've had my dog for (almost) 12 years, someone who has less years invested is inferior to me? Would not be fair, would it?! Actual people(scientific studies) did actual research on actual dogs! Having said that, I don't need to do anything but be a responsible dog owner and homework on the subject matter, that I did! Just to clearify; I quoted some or one of the kibble pushers scientific evidence just to show that EVEN THEY know low protein is BAD! Can't wrap that fact in a flower blanket and I call it as I see it! If anything at all is offensive, it's giving junk advise to new dog owner's looking to improve their pet's health not make it worse! Why not just say; hey, I didn't do any research yet, so I can't give real concrete advise, just opinion!???? Don't most quotes ask to be corrected if found wrong? The problem is, SOME of these new pet owners actually take the advise of some other members and never investigate on their own because they think the advise given must be accurate, since it came from a long time, respectable YT member! Some advise here is good, some is not! I just happened to find a subject that needed a contrary point of view! I get questions all the time about raw, I refer them to articles, websites, scientific studies etc. and I don't just offer some advise I may or may not have heard somewhere. Has anybody tried low protein on their dog? If yes, what was the outcome? Care to feed low protein to your puppy? Willing to experiment? No? Then why advise to do so to somebody else? I actually care about those owners and I'd wish somebody had taken me aside a long time ago and had offered me accurate info! Isn't that what really matters? The dogs? Their health?

I think it's fine that you are posting information based on facts, but you COULD be a little nicer about it rather than coming off so rude and condescending. That's where the "preview post" button might come in handy. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate someone posting to you that way. Being nice really doesn't hurt at all, you might want to try it. I wish you all the best with your yorkies.

[chickendido]

Could I be "nicer"? Probably! Will I be? Probably not! It's not my style as I would never criticize other people for not having the same style as I do and so I expect the same courtesy given to me, as I feel offended by "pussyfooting" and see great use in straight forward shooting, but that's a choice and again, a question of opinion... An important issue was raised, hard questions were asked, hard opinions were given. Was that bad? I think not, as reality is life and life is hard! I call it as I see it and it does NOT have to coexist with other people as we can see that example in every day situations... read what you like, don't what you don't... I personally do not think that I was rude because my personality is set for life at this point and suggestions to change my person might be a nice time waster but does not contribute to the issues at hand as some people have already said clearly that they felt offended, and it was heard by me, make no mistake, I heard it... others, posted publicly or not, did not feel offended.
I make good use of my preview button and any suggestion otherwise, I might feel offended by. But that would only be my e-offended! lol
Running the risk of repeating, I stand by my posts. I don't see myself as the "messiah" of raw word spreading as food is a personal choice. Do I advocate raw and not advocate cooked? To people who want to know about it, yes! But I would never knock somebody for not feeding raw, as I did not always feed raw myself. There's also a huge difference between BARF and prey model raw! I feed the prey model, with high protein kibble only in travel situations when my dogs are boarded, or when yet other reasons arise which I try to minimize as much as possible! Raw fed dogs will have a bit of a higher BUN level, as "normal" levels are based on regular kibble fed dogs, but that does not mean there's a health problem with the animal, just to throw that tid bit info in here... (study conducted by raw feeder groups) BUT somehow raw got thrown into this topic when this is not what the issue is or was. The issue was and still is low protein! Science points to a clear NO! If anything, yes, I did challenge the view of people who advised newcomers to a low(er) protein source of food, but that advise did not offer where that opinion came from other than "I heard" or "it's well known"... I stated to where I got my info from to a "yah" for high protein, Where's the "nay" info on low protein? Can either be discredited? Can my style of writing (it's just words!) be overcome to address the low protein issue? Somebody mentioned, it may not. For those, I wish them good luck! And for the people who are still interested in discussing THAT (on this thread anyways) instead of ME.... has anybody else come across real concrete info regarding protein? Has anybody fed Low protein to their puppy? Has anybody fed High protein? For the people that asked me, let me just post it here, I am open to PM as I always have been, nothing of course has changed in that regard, lol.

[chickendido]

.... on the other hand, raw disgustion is great as I gazed at it myself, but this thread was for Protein..... Anybody care to start a new thread for raw info exchange, in addition to this? Anybody else feeding prey model? If no, why BARF? I considered BARF and actually tried that..... Anyways........
Thanks!

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by chickendido

Could I be "nicer"? Probably! Will I be? Probably not!

You are going to have a very hard time getting people to listen to what you say then and even harder getting them to actually take your advice. I know you want to get the facts across but do it in the correct way, and people will be more apt to listen to you

[SJK1113]

Originally Posted by chickendido

Could I be "nicer"? Probably! Will I be? Probably not! It's not my style as I would never criticize other people for not having the same style as I do and so I expect the same courtesy given to me, as I feel offended by "pussyfooting" and see great use in straight forward shooting, but that's a choice and again, a question of opinion... An important issue was raised, hard questions were asked, hard opinions were given. Was that bad? I think not, as reality is life and life is hard! I call it as I see it and it does NOT have to coexist with other people as we can see that example in every day situations... read what you like, don't what you don't... I personally do not think that I was rude because my personality is set for life at this point and suggestions to change my person might be a nice time waster but does not contribute to the issues at hand as some people have already said clearly that they felt offended, and it was heard by me, make no mistake, I heard it... others, posted publicly or not, did not feel offended.
I make good use of my preview button and any suggestion otherwise, I might feel offended by. But that would only be my e-offended! lol
Running the risk of repeating, I stand by my posts. I don't see myself as the "messiah" of raw word spreading as food is a personal choice. Do I advocate raw and not advocate cooked? To people who want to know about it, yes! But I would never knock somebody for not feeding raw, as I did not always feed raw myself. There's also a huge difference between BARF and prey model raw! I feed the prey model, with high protein kibble only in travel situations when my dogs are boarded, or when yet other reasons arise which I try to minimize as much as possible! Raw fed dogs will have a bit of a higher BUN level, as "normal" levels are based on regular kibble fed dogs, but that does not mean there's a health problem with the animal, just to throw that tid bit info in here... (study conducted by raw feeder groups) BUT somehow raw got thrown into this topic when this is not what the issue is or was. The issue was and still is low protein! Science points to a clear NO! If anything, yes, I did challenge the view of people who advised newcomers to a low(er) protein source of food, but that advise did not offer where that opinion came from other than "I heard" or "it's well known"... I stated to where I got my info from to a "yah" for high protein, Where's the "nay" info on low protein? Can either be discredited? Can my style of writing (it's just words!) be overcome to address the low protein issue? Somebody mentioned, it may not. For those, I wish them good luck! And for the people who are still interested in discussing THAT (on this thread anyways) instead of ME.... has anybody else come across real concrete info regarding protein? Has anybody fed Low protein to their puppy? Has anybody fed High protein? For the people that asked me, let me just post it here, I am open to PM as I always have been, nothing of course has changed in that regard, lol.

ok....carry on

[doortego]

Poor Beth, somehow this got all out of hand. Maybe you could try making your post a poll for what other Yters are feeding their dogs and eliminate some of the hostilities that seem to have arisen over your innocent question. I would be interested in knowing and others might be as well.
Good luck with finding the best food for your pup

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by chickendido

I appreciate your comment! People looking into research is what I truly wanted to accomplish here today if anything at all! If people only heard the person and not the message, that's something I have to live with as I am, as I am! Constructive responses are awesome! Any insight into my personality and why I feel so passionate about this, is pointless now and so I won't bore with it, not that it ever mattered here or today. Let's just say I have thick skin and always hope that people have the same! I chose to grab this the way I did because I am blunt, no excuses on my part! Not everybody's style, I get that, but to make an example, what offends one person, wakes up the other one, two or three, and that's another thing that happened today! I already offered apologies to people who felt offended, so with that said, I ain't no Mel Gibson, lol.

I am interested in some of those "raw food" websites. I have only checked out natures variety...the booklet info I picked up at the pet supplies plus. i have a bag of raw that was given to me from the worker at the pet store. My vet told me that she sees a lot of pancreatic problems feeding the raw food. i have 2 yorkies- one currently showing calcium oxalate crystals in her urine. I "heard" that the quality of protein is what actually mattered in a dog food. My dog was on Purina Pres NF diet since last Feb when we first discovered crystals. This food seriously messed up my little dog. My old vet pretty much left it up to me to do follow up and urinalysis.

So...we finally switched vets-(for many reasons) but once we got our little 7 lb yorkie to the NEW vet we discovered that Samie had an ear infection in both ears, a yeast infection (I believe since last Aug 2006) AND she was also suffering an allergic reaction in her digestive tract from the pres diet she had been on since Feb.

I recently switched her to Canidae- I had not done enough research on the raw yet to feed that. And I couldn't NOT feed my dogs... they have been doing well on the Canidae. I heard on this site that high protein could be bad for a dog with kidney problems/stones. so i have not switched to anything else yet. The vet wanted to put her back on a pres diet- this time Hills W/D formula with adding 1 teas potassium citrate granules to her food once a day. I was to scared to put her back on a food that contained "corn"

Just like i read on the Natures Variety booklet I have. You wouldn't feed a dog "fish" why would you feed a dog "kibble or grains" makes sense to me...

appreciate any sites you have researched on the raw diet. :-)

[Buffy]

Stylistic and tone elements of posts aside, I too agree and subscribe to the main points made by chickendido. I, for one, appreciated your post for being research driven, rather than hearsay.

I switched my little one's food from royal canin yorkie to innova evo and evo red meat. The grain content in royal canin, mostly from corn, caused sever itching and allergies which went away after about 6 weeks of switching to innova. My reason for switching was to get away from the grain content, but I chose innova for their high protein content.

Thank you for your post, and keep up the good work.

-jonny

[MissPinkBarbie]

Daisy's been eating "Eukanuba" for her dry food since we got her. It has been recommended byh my breeder AND vet (two different ppl)..