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04-17-2007, 04:26 PM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 8
| Too Much Protein My 5 year old neutered male Yorkie had his stitches removed today. He had a calcium oxalate stone surgically removed from his urethra. His food is being switched to Science Diet u/d with 8.0% minimum protein. I discussed my fear of protein depravation, (dogs being evolved from carniverous meat eaters), etc., at length with my vet. I concluded I have to put those feelings aside and put his quality of life first. He had a bout of cystitis in June 1995, and in retrospect, I believe this was the beginning of stone formation. He next had cystitis in January 2007, and lastly in March 2007. He had been eating Purina Adult Sensitive Systems fortified with Yogart with "Real Salmon as #1 Ingredient." It has a protein content of 26% minimum. OVER THREE TIMES WHAT HE IS NOW PRESCRIBED. I might add, that I'm not switching cold turkey, but rather increasing the Science Diet u/d and decreasing the Purina Salmon gradually. I can see instances where high protein is essential--- working, herding, sled pulling, pregnant, nursing, etc., But how much is too much for an inside pampered pooch?? I plan to cut the protein my other Yorkie gets also to maybe 20% for his general well being. I know many disease genes are caried in certain breeds, but could excessive protein compound things like diabetes, liver shunts, stones, pancreatitis, etc.?????? I am anxious to read feedback. |
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04-17-2007, 05:31 PM | #2 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| The kind of protein is more important in cases like these. He needs a low PURINE diet. I have a bunch of really good articles on calcium oxalate stones that I have saved in my other computer, and I will post them for you. My yorkie gets ammonium urate stones so I have a lot of experience with those but in my research I have run across many articles regarding calcium oxalate stones.
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04-17-2007, 06:28 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Okay, ignore that first post and read the following links...It is very important that your baby have access to fresh water at all times...Many times, distilled water is recommended. Also, make sure your furbaby has is not confined and has access to somewhere that she can urinate as frequently as needed. She needs to drink lots of water to dilute the urine and urinate as frequently as possible. This helps flush out the kidneys and bladder. Here are some links full of wonderful and helpful information: http://b-naturals.com/Dec2004.php http://b-naturals.com/Dec2002.php (read the calcium oxalate section) I have more links for you, I just have to find them...I'll post in a minute!
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04-17-2007, 06:32 PM | #4 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 916
| Normally a dogs urine should be acid. Certain minerals that are responsible for the formation of stones, will dissolve in acidic urine, but not alkaline urine. There are several minerals that are what can cause a stone. Struvite, which is a stone that is formed from chronic infections.They are made up of Magnesium ammonium phosphate. Most commercial diets that are formulated for dogs with stones contain less magnesium phosphate, more salt to encourage drinking. Urate stones form from too much uric acid in the system. Less protein in the diet and low purine can help to discourage the formation of these type of stones. I think alot of the above mentioned type of food is low in proteins and purine...Calcium Oxylate stones are the one exception that they will form in acidc urine..so diet manipulation is usually not very helpful . They are caused by too much circulating calcium in the blood and kidneys.sometimes there are some metabolic things that can be going on that causes them to produce too much calcium...commercial puppy food has quite a bit of calcium ..but the diet change is the best start to trying to prevent new ones from forming...you can add a teaspoon of salt to their drinking water per 4 cups...the more water they will drink it keeps the kidneys flushed so that sediment (minerals) won't have enough time to sit and form a stone....So the question of does too much protein hurt these dogs...the only studies I've read about with too much protein administered was with lab rats and they aren't meat eaters so I consider that study inaccurate of "what too much protein does to animals'...I don't know of any more studies where they used dogs and gave them massive amounts of protein and observed them. It does matter what form the protein comes in for them because they every living thing metabolizes certain forms different ways...I'm sure this has been the longest , most boring, lol...just want to pass on what I have read and learned through years of nursing and loving my fur babies.
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04-17-2007, 06:35 PM | #5 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 916
| Reading back of what his diet was the food with yogurt and Salmon...Salmon is high in calcium and the yogurt of course is..you might read the calcium content on that food compared to others or the one S/D you are about to begin...what is the difference
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04-17-2007, 06:51 PM | #6 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Also, try to feed him things that are high in moisture content like canned foods instead of dry and add water to foods if you feed natural foods. http://www.bichon.org/stones.htm Calcium oxalate stones tend to occur in acidic urine so you should feed alkalizing (sp?) foods...Here is a link with foods that are/are not safe for dogs with calcium oxalate stones http://www.bichon.org/stones.htm This next one is good too https://vmacs.vmth.ucdavis.edu/userp...liths.doc?html Low purine diets from what I have read are best for calcium oxalate stones. I have one more link for you that I really liked, but I can't seem to find it right now. If I find it, I'll post it for you. I've read different things about adding salt to their water, some positive, some negative. We decided not to do that because we feel it might Miko's condition worse, but some people choose to do it. Google and see if that's something you feel would be beneficial.
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04-17-2007, 06:51 PM | #7 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| good post teffiemoore
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04-17-2007, 07:49 PM | #8 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 8
| That's a good point. Unfortunately, due to ambiguous labels they only print "minimum" amounts of ingredients, on their labels. The "actual" amount is anyone's best guess. Purina Sensiitive Systems Salmon Fortified With Yogart = Calcium 1.0 % min Science Diet u/d Calcium .20% min |
04-18-2007, 04:22 AM | #9 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 916
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04-18-2007, 04:32 AM | #10 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 916
| You know another thing I read...these type of stones are prevalent in male dogs and Yorkies, along with few other toy breeds...hmmmm
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04-18-2007, 08:15 AM | #11 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Yep! That's true...My male yorkie actually gets ammonium urate stones, but that's due to his liver problems...
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