Calling ALL YT Vets, Vet Assts, Vet Students!!!

[BabyFidgette]

Originally Posted by Potter

Beet pulp and chicken liver flavour? These are 2 ingredients that I will check on the food bag before buying them for my dog. I don't think a food that is good and contains enough meat needs flavouring to enhance it.

Good point! Plus, I don't feed Baby anything with beet pulp, and she has zero tear stains!

[yorkieusa]

I didn't see this thread prior to now, but I would like to refer you to the following article:

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/dat...Patrick06.html

Especially, to this particular paragraph (but I urge you to read the complete article if you are sincere about learning what is contained in dog foods):

Ever noticed that the veterinarians office is often, if not always, filled with commercial pet food? The more the veterinarians sell their food to ?clients?, the higher their commissions on the sales through incentive programs.[262] Some manufacturers even offer cash bonuses to the vets. In essence, the veterinarian is ?on the take.?[263] Even the Veterinarians Association itself is a major shareholder in Hills Science Diet, which perhaps explains its ubiquitous presence in veterinarians offices. Indeed, one pet owner said she ?felt pressured? by the veterinarian?s suggestion that she buy Hills Prescription Diet Feline because the vet told her ?overweight cats can get diabetes.?[264] While this might be true, the client was disturbed by both the price tag, $15 per bag, and the fact that the food was available for purchase through her veterinarian?s clinic.[265] All that really matters in a pet food is whether it meets your pet?s nutritional needs. This can be achieved through a $15 bag, or a $8 bag so long as both bags contain the necessary nutrients in a digestible form.[266] But clinics push particular foods because the mark up on premium pet foods can account for as much as 20% of a veterinarian?s income.[267] Plus, pet owners buying food through the clinic visit the clinic more frequently, increasing the opportunities for sales of other goods and services. If this doesn?t seem like a conflict of interest, imagine visiting your doctor?s office once a month to purchase Lean Cuisine meals from their waiting room.[268]

[kalina82]

*sigh* Please people, get this out of your head, VETS DO NOT GET KICKBACKS FROM SELLING HILL'S FOOD. i'm so tired of hearing this. Like i've said before, i've worked for many vet's offices and i work for one now (which we also provide Royal Canine at). We get nothing back from the company if we sell their food. Sure you may have one or two vets mark the prices up so high so they can get more money but those are greedy bastards. The price of the food is what hill's charges, NOT the vet. Hill's raises the prices every so often, that's whey they are getting more and more expensive. WE keep the food handy because it is also what we feed in hospital. Dogs and cats that are sick with upset stomachs get I/D, urinary problems get C/D, C/D-s, S/D, royal canine SO, and some others, K/D is for kidney disease. We keep it stocked and sell it because we need it for our patients just as much as you guys need it at home when your pet is a on a prescription diet. As for selling regular science diet/eukanuba/royal canine/whatever, its usually for the same reason. The vet already buys it or a like brand (like prescription and science diet) so its easier to also sell it in shop if a lot of patients need to eat it.

[CocosMom]

I said in another thread that I use Science Diet for both my dogs and love it. It wasn't what either breeder was using, but it what I like and both dogs do well on it. They have like 10 different kinds and I do trust my vet, it is not the other thing in his office, and he didn't "push" it on me. Also, there is a "Light" formula for my very chubby bulldog. I guess it is just your preference or what your dogs like. My sister uses the cheapest, biggest bag she can find at Sam's club??? My dogs are worth the cost of Science Diet and I hardly think anyone is getting any huge kickbacks on it...Just my opinion.

[Itspuppyluv]

Why can I go to the Science Diet site, put my area code in and find 35 vets selling Science Diet...which we all know is not the best food...within 10 minutes of my home but can't buy Merricks, Flint River Ranch, Canidae, Solid Gold, Innova or any of the best foods out there in any vet office around here?

Maybe because they aren't owned by billion dollar companies?

No one is saying Colgate-Palmolive which own Hills is walking in to vet's offices and handing them cash but you are not being realistic if you don't think money has anything to do with it.

Btw, the other two foods mentioned in this thread that were offered by vets are also owned by huge companies..Mars owns Royal Canin, Procter and Gamble owns Eukenuba.

[CocosMom]

I have no idea. One of my dogs came home on Eukenuba. She constantly threw up, and had very loose stools for almost a month. I started mixing in the SD and she did alot better. SD for puppies in my opinion is the best puppy food out there. And like I said I like the different varieties they have like for my English bulldog.(light..these dogs tend to gain alot of weight very easily) Again...just my opinion.

[Annuta]

Haven't read everything in this thread yet, so this may have already been said. If something is unethical or illegal, doesn't mean that it's not happening. That article someone linked from Wall Street Journal, I believe, does, in fact, clearly state that vets make up to 40% profit by selling SD. I am guessing that many other smaller, better (in terms of nutritional value of the food) companies cannot share their profits to this extent. This, to me, is a form of a kickback. I would define a "kickback" as any form of compensatioin, be it monetary or otherwise; great game tickets, fancy dinners, big profit margins from the sales - all these qualify as kickbacks, in my opinion.

Lack of nutritional education in college for vets argument doesn't make sense to me. Many of us here are not experts in animal nutrition, yet we know which foods are good, and which aren't. It doesn't take a genius to figure out, and vets are by no means uneducated. I would understand if a vet wanted to sell cheaper food for his clients, who, for example, cannot afford "premium" foods. But, why push an expensive food that is not the very best out there?

Thankfully, my vet did not push SD on me back when I first visited with my kitten 5 months ago, even though her shelves are lined with it and I see people buy it all the time when I take the furkids in for their appointments. I was an uneducated consumer when it came to pet food and I know I would have bought SD if my vet told me it's the best. But from stories I've read so far, some vets are more agressive in pushing SD than others.

Edited to add that I understand why vets prescribe special SD diets - I've no problem with that. My only issue is with them pushing SD for regular diets.

[Itspuppyluv]

Originally Posted by CocosMom

I have no idea. One of my dogs came home on Eukenuba. She constantly threw up, and had very loose stools for almost a month. I started mixing in the SD and she did alot better. SD for puppies in my opinion is the best puppy food out there. And like I said I like the different varieties they have like for my English bulldog.(light..these dogs tend to gain alot of weight very easily) Again...just my opinion.

It does look like I was directing that earlier post towards you but I wasn't. I know we want what is best for our pets and we all have different opinions of what that is. Someone that feeds their dogs the raw diet might have plenty to say about what I'm feeding mine. I hope I didn't make you (or anyone else) think I was criticizing your choices.

I'm just expressing my thoughts on the money and the vet connection.

In their very own words...

"The bulk of our expenditure goes to the veterinary community," says John Steel, who just retired as Colgate's senior vice president of global marketing and sales.

"I was struck by the similarity of our world-wide toothpaste business, with the endorsement of the dentists being so important," Mr. Mark (he is Colgate's Chairman) says. "I knew if we did the same thing with Hill's, it could be an enormous global brand."

I think it was brilliant. Their profits skyrocketed.

[Itspuppyluv]

Originally Posted by Annuta

Haven't read everything in this thread yet, so this may have already been said. If something is unethical or illegal, doesn't mean that it's not happening. That article someone linked from Wall Street Journal, I believe, does, in fact, clearly state that vets make up to 40% profit by selling SD. I am guessing that many other smaller, better (in terms of nutritional value of the food) companies cannot share their profits to this extent. This, to me, is a form of a kickback. I would define a "kickback" as any form of compensatioin, be it monetary or otherwise; great game tickets, fancy dinners, big profit margins from the sales - all these qualify as kickbacks, in my opinion.

Lack of nutritional education in college for vets argument doesn't make sense to me. Many of us here are not experts in animal nutrition, yet we know which foods are good, and which aren't. It doesn't take a genius to figure out, and vets are by no means uneducated. I would understand if a vet wanted to sell cheaper food for his clients, who, for example, cannot afford "premium" foods. But, why push an expensive food that is not the very best out there?

Thankfully, my vet did not push SD on me back when I first visited with my kitten 5 months ago, even though her shelves are lined with it and I see people buy it all the time when I take the furkids in for their appointments. I was an uneducated consumer when it came to pet food and I know I would have bought SD if my vet told me it's the best. But from stories I've read so far, some vets are more agressive in pushing SD than others.

Edited to add that I understand why vets prescribe special SD diets - I've no problem with that. My only issue is with them pushing SD for regular diets.

[kalina82]

you know what, your gonna believe whatever you want to believe because some people think they know better then a highly educated person that specializes in animal health and medicine. I'm tired of arguing this point. Science Diet and Prescription diet are very good foods. Analysis' have been done and the food has been broken down and compared with many many other foods INCLUDING all the high quality food we feed out yorkies. SD came out with the top contenders. At work today i asked my coworkers (consisting of 5 vets and 4 certified techs) and they all said that when in school they did take more then one class in nutrition AND dog food analysis was done by themselves. They had to go to the stores and buy food that range from crappy to Excellent and break them down physically and chemically to study the make up of the food. SO these foods are tested by vets and tech's and ingredients and %ages are studied and gone over.

FOR THE LAST TIME: The vet's do not get anything back from selling these foods. different vets sell different foods. Not all of them sell science diet. some sell eukanuba.

Not all dog owners are like the people here on YT. they don't go around a research every little detail of the dogs food and pick at it. All they know is that they have had dogs for a long time and feeding science diet and purina and iams and whatever else has let their dogs live long and healthy lives.

SO if a vet's office were to sell wellness/merricks/innova/whatever, it probaly wouldn't sell very well because most of the population has no idea about it. And the not selling very well statement doesn't insinuate that not selling well means low profits for the vet, it means that it would sit in shop longer and eventually go bad because no one would buy it.

another thing, its really funny that vet's are always looked down upon for their food knowledge, but the minute your yorkie burps/hick-ups/vomits/trips/sneezes/coughs its off to the vet with him to have him checked out...

i'm done arguing about food, vets, and science diet. some people just aren't going to listen and are just going to keep on believe what they want.

[Annuta]

Originally Posted by kalina82

another thing, its really funny that vet's are always looked down upon for their food knowledge, but the minute your yorkie burps/hick-ups/vomits/trips/sneezes/coughs its off to the vet with him to have him checked out...

i'm done arguing about food, vets, and science diet. some people just aren't going to listen and are just going to keep on believe what they want.

I don't think anyone here said anything about vets being incompetent. I appreciate my vet very much, and am very glad that she is available to take care of my furbabies when they need it. People are just questioning one aspect of their practice. Also, it definitely doesn't apply to ALL vets, just those who push SD a bit too much. Like I said in my post, my vet didn't push SD, even though her office is full of that stuff.

You mentioned that vets have to analyze the content of various foods during their training. Did they analyze SD and found it to be supperior to all other brands, which is why they sell it? Would actually be interesting to see an independant lab perform tests on various animal foods for things like bioavailability of nutrients as well as the basic nutrient percentages.

[JESSY_RN2B]

I stand neutral in this thread. Opinions are like rectums............everyone has one

Whether they get kickback or not.......I don't care. I will continue to feed what I feel is the best food for my pets.........(SD is not one of them by the way)

[Itspuppyluv]

Not one person here is an authority on this subject. We all have our opinions and are free to discuss them no matter how upsetting it is to some. No one has to keep coming back and responding to this thread.

I, for one, don't make a move involving the health and well being of my pets without discussing it with a highly educated person that specializes in animal health and medicine, so to assume I believe what I do just because "I know better" would be wrong. I would be more than happy to give anyone his number. I can guarantee he will not recommend Science Diet.

My sister's father-in-law was a very respected vet in my area so I happen to think very highly of them.
And believe it or not we all have access to them.

Look how easily people here on YT figure out what food is best for their dog. If a vet decided to sell a higher quality food, I think he or she would be able to explain why and it would sell. Give the population a little credit.

I also find it interesting to see what people are feeding their own dogs.

This I happen to agree with.

Originally Posted by kalina82

some people just aren't going to listen and are just going to keep on believe what they want.