Fromm vs Nature's Variety vs Orijen

[stephanierubyxo]

We decided to go with Acana. Thank you all for your input, I wanted to know more about personal experiences, not scientific opinions. Dogs are carnivores so I don't feel like the high protein is a problem for healthy dogs, or my dog, who is healthy. My vet also gave me the "ok" on the protein intake.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by stephanierubyxo

We decided to go with Acana. Thank you all for your input, I wanted to know more about personal experiences, not scientific opinions. Dogs are carnivores so I don't feel like the high protein is a problem for healthy dogs, or my dog, who is healthy. My vet also gave me the "ok" on the protein intake.

Glad you found something that you think will work and I wish you good luck with it, I think it's a great idea to check with your vet when in doubt.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

For anyone confused about canine nutrition - this White Paper by Orijen has always always been one of my favorite pieces of education....it's very informative, well written, easy to read for a lay person or whatnot.

http://www.orijen.ie/acatalog/ORIJEN...er%2809%29.pdf

... and it's written by a dog food company (not peer reviewed) and is replete with typos ("effects" instead of "affects," for example). If anything, this document will contribute to further confusion. I'm going off to do a literature search. I'll get back to everyone later.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

By the way, Here’s another paper on protein in the same approved source. Link: Focusing on Protein in the Diet | petMD

In Focusing on Protein in the Diet, the author states,
.

It does go to show that there is a difference of opinion.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by stephanierubyxo

We decided to go with Acana. Thank you all for your input, I wanted to know more about personal experiences, not scientific opinions. Dogs are carnivores so I don't feel like the high protein is a problem for healthy dogs, or my dog, who is healthy. My vet also gave me the "ok" on the protein intake.

I'm glad you found something you and your vet feel is right for your dog. Good luck!

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

And is that backed by fourple-blind, longitudinal, repeatable to infinity, published everywhere studies that are agree upon by every approved scientist on the planet??? Or, not? (I'm not actually asking the question here, I'm just being facetious)

Look pstinard and megansmomma, this board is a FORUM, and it's owned by Admin -- who encourages and welcomes all opinions here, even those and especially those whose are not necessarily scientifically based -- because perhaps it's from those angles that we sometimes have the best discussions (where, in fact, science does often come to the forefront).

YorkieTalk is NOT a scientific community, so please do not make passive aggressive attempts or comments that insinuate posting anything other than science is all that's acceptable or valid here at YT. We are receiving an extremely disappointing amount of private messages from members who no longer even want to post here at YT for fear of being attacked if they're not posting something they can also back up with science. They are also fearful of posting anything whatsoever regarding holistic or natural treatments. This is unacceptable and we will not foster a community such as that. If you prefer a community that allows and encourages only scientific discourse, then this community may not feel right to you...that's up for you to decide.

YT encourages all members to feel welcome to post opinions, articles, and discussions of all kinds. If anyone cannot be/feel open to other avenues of treatment, vet care, or discussion -- then you may refrain from posting on said subject. Thank you.

I'm actually horrified by your post, and feel that it is an attempt to shut down discussion, especially with the comment that this forum is owned by Admin. I have NEVER attacked a poster for what they feed their dogs. I HAVE debated ideas and provided alternative points of view that are backed up by science. I will readily admit that the last chapter has not been written on canine nutrition.

I've reviewed the recent literature on weight loss in dogs as related to protein content. MOST of the articles subscribe to the concept that calories are calories, regardless of the source, and since carbohydrates have the same caloric content as proteins, the ratio doesn't matter so long as the dog's nutritional needs are being met with respect to adequate intake of essential amino acids. For those weight loss programs that include vigorous exercise, adequate protein intake is recommended to ensure that muscle mass is not lost. SOME articles suggest that higher protein diets reduce the dog's hunger during weight loss. Here is a quote from the 2014 American Association of Animal Hospitals Weight Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats: http://jaaha.org/doi/full/10.5326/JAAHA-MS-6331

Therapeutic weight loss diets are formulated to contain more protein, vitamins, and minerals/calorie than OTC foods, ensuring adequate nutrient intake during caloric restriction. High protein may preserve muscle mass during weight loss and may improve satiety. As the effects of aging on protein digestibility are not well understood, senior pets may require closer monitoring of protein intake (and MCS) during weight loss. Therapeutic foods also may be lower in fat, higher in fiber, and/or higher in moisture to decrease caloric density. That allows clients to feed a greater volume of food with fewer calories. [emphasis mine]

Note that this higher protein content recommendation is for weight loss foods, not for standard feeding. The protein content recommendations for standard feeding are well-established, and have been reported previously in this thread. I'm truly sick of this thread, and feel that I have done my due diligence in reporting facts for the sake of Yorkshire Terrier health. It is well known that Yorkies have more than their fair share of liver and other health problems, so if I read some advice that *might* have an adverse impact on the liver, I point it out. Anyone can take it or leave it.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I'm actually horrified by your post, and feel that it is an attempt to shut down discussion, especially with the comment that this forum is owned by Admin. I have NEVER attacked a poster for what they feed their dogs. I HAVE debated ideas and provided alternative points of view that are backed up by science. I will readily admit that the last chapter has not been written on canine nutrition.

I've reviewed the recent literature on weight loss in dogs as related to protein content. MOST of the articles subscribe to the concept that calories are calories, regardless of the source, and since carbohydrates have the same caloric content as proteins, the ratio doesn't matter so long as the dog's nutritional needs are being met with respect to adequate intake of essential amino acids. For those weight loss programs that include vigorous exercise, adequate protein intake is recommended to ensure that muscle mass is not lost. SOME articles suggest that higher protein diets reduce the dog's hunger during weight loss. Here is a quote from the 2014 American Association of Animal Hospitals Weight Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Therapeutic weight loss diets are formulated to contain more protein, vitamins, and minerals/calorie than OTC foods, ensuring adequate nutrient intake during caloric restriction. High protein may preserve muscle mass during weight loss and may improve satiety. As the effects of aging on protein digestibility are not well understood, senior pets may require closer monitoring of protein intake (and MCS) during weight loss. Therapeutic foods also may be lower in fat, higher in fiber, and/or higher in moisture to decrease caloric density. That allows clients to feed a greater volume of food with fewer calories. [emphasis mine]

Note that this higher protein content recommendation is for weight loss foods, not for standard feeding. The protein content recommendations for standard feeding are well-established, and have been reported previously in this thread. I'm truly sick of this thread, and feel that I have done my due diligence in reporting facts for the sake of Yorkshire Terrier health. It is well known that Yorkies have more than their fair share of liver and other health problems, so if I read some advice that *might* have an adverse impact on the liver, I point it out. Anyone can take it or leave it.

If you find it horrific that Admin allows and encourages all angles of opinions, then I don't know how to even respond.

The discussions that are consistently being shut down here at YT are those that merely mention ANYthing that is in the least bit un-scientific. And that needs to stop. People are WELCOME to discuss their opinions, whether or not scientific...as you have always been as well. We're asking you allow them to have these discussions without disparaging their choices or opinions, as has been done in the past here.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I've reviewed the recent literature on weight loss in dogs as related to protein content. MOST of the articles subscribe to the concept that calories are calories, regardless of the source, and since carbohydrates have the same caloric content as proteins, the ratio doesn't matter so long as the dog's nutritional needs are being met with respect to adequate intake of essential amino acids. For those weight loss programs that include vigorous exercise, adequate protein intake is recommended to ensure that muscle mass is not lost. SOME articles suggest that higher protein diets reduce the dog's hunger during weight loss. Here is a quote from the 2014 American Association of Animal Hospitals Weight Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Therapeutic weight loss diets are formulated to contain more protein, vitamins, and minerals/calorie than OTC foods, ensuring adequate nutrient intake during caloric restriction. High protein may preserve muscle mass during weight loss and may improve satiety. As the effects of aging on protein digestibility are not well understood, senior pets may require closer monitoring of protein intake (and MCS) during weight loss. Therapeutic foods also may be lower in fat, higher in fiber, and/or higher in moisture to decrease caloric density. That allows clients to feed a greater volume of food with fewer calories. [emphasis mine]

Note that this higher protein content recommendation is for weight loss foods, not for standard feeding. The protein content recommendations for standard feeding are well-established, and have been reported previously in this thread. I'm truly sick of this thread, and feel that I have done my due diligence in reporting facts for the sake of Yorkshire Terrier health. It is well known that Yorkies have more than their fair share of liver and other health problems, so if I read some advice that *might* have an adverse impact on the liver, I point it out. Anyone can take it or leave it.

I missed this in the fray, but wanted to thank you for this helpful and insightful information .

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I missed this in the fray, but wanted to thank you for this helpful and insightful information .

Thanks! And I did reread some of the things I wrote earlier, and you were right. I apologize to anyone who was offended, you especially.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Thanks! And I did reread some of the things I wrote earlier, and you were right. I apologize to anyone who was offended, you especially.

And, as I said via our private messaging - my deepest apology for what I meant earlier as a facetious comment, but did not come off that way at all - not at all! I really apologize for that, as it was so not intended as anything but off-center funny. I really abhor it if I come off snarky . I'm really glad we're able to make peace with it though .

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by stephanierubyxo

Hey guys, my Daisy is pretty picky with her food and doesn't really eat much. I want to get her one of these but wanted to know what you all though about them.
She had a dr's appointment yesterday and she still weighs 2lbs 3oz, she weighed this much two weeks ago, I though she would've gained some weight by now. She is 4 months in a half.


Fromm and Natures Variety carry a small breed bag but Orijen doesn't, Should I stick to a small breed food?


Has anyone had any experience with these brands?
Which one do you prefer?


A feed store down the street from me sells these brands but they don't have any sample bags, only trial bags for sale but I want some advice before I go buy the trial bags.






Thank you!

Hi,

You do not have to stick to small breed formula. Galen as a 2 lb pup would eat the regular size California natural and it was large pieces. . .

I know Fromm grain free has small pieces and it is a wonderful food. Natures Variety I feed my Kitties have not tried it for Galen. But I love their food.

I would start with one of them and see if they like it. I really liked the Grain Free Fromm Samon Tunalini . . He liked that the longest lol . . Sometimes food we want to feed them is not always what they want to eat lol. . Galen is extremely finicky. He has tried many foods. . He seems to like Primal and Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw . .

Good luck and let me know how you do .



I see from your post that your dog doesn't like them . . Well I keep reading and see if I can help

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by stephanierubyxo

We decided to go with Acana. Thank you all for your input, I wanted to know more about personal experiences, not scientific opinions. Dogs are carnivores so I don't feel like the high protein is a problem for healthy dogs, or my dog, who is healthy. My vet also gave me the "ok" on the protein intake.

I am glad you found something ! . .

[SirTeddykins]

Hi OP!


I just wanted to let you know that my Teddy is on Acana and he's doing great. He LOVES the taste of it but is a little piggy on it!


Glad you found something suitable!

[MarkFromSea]

Thank You Ann!

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Look pstinard and megansmomma, this board is a FORUM, and it's owned by Admin -- who encourages and welcomes all opinions here, even those and especially those whose are not necessarily scientifically based -- because perhaps it's from those angles that we sometimes have the best discussions (where, in fact, science does often come to the forefront).

YorkieTalk is NOT a scientific community, so please do not make passive aggressive attempts or comments that insinuate posting anything other than science is all that's acceptable or valid here at YT. We are receiving an extremely disappointing amount of private messages from members who no longer even want to post here at YT for fear of being attacked if they're not posting something they can also back up with science. They are also fearful of posting anything whatsoever regarding holistic or natural treatments. This is unacceptable and we will not foster a community such as that. If you prefer a community that allows and encourages only scientific discourse, then this community may not feel right to you...that's up for you to decide.

YT encourages all members to feel welcome to post opinions, articles, and discussions of all kinds. If anyone cannot be/feel open to other avenues of treatment, vet care, or discussion -- then you may refrain from posting on said subject. Thank you.

I enjoyed the personal experiences, quotes and supporting links on this thread, particularly on the subject of protein.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by stephanierubyxo

We decided to go with Acana. Thank you all for your input, I wanted to know more about personal experiences, not scientific opinions. Dogs are carnivores so I don't feel like the high protein is a problem for healthy dogs, or my dog, who is healthy. My vet also gave me the "ok" on the protein intake.

I have fed Acana for years w/ good luck. I do feed the limited ingredient Duck formula though -- it's just what he does best on. Wasn't super thrilled with the inclusion of all the peas, lentils, etc, in their newer grain-free formulas, just out of personal preference. But fwiw, Jackson's always done well on Acana.