Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4555860)

Well, yes and no. Beaks and hair are not digestible, and pass though the dog's body much like fiber does. There are ten essential amino that dogs need in their diet (see https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/dog-c...your-dog-needs). If your dog's protein source includes these amino acids, then the dog will get by on less total protein overall, and it will be less stress on the kidneys and liver. Low quality protein that doesn't contain these essential amino acids is simply wasted effort for the dog to digest. But if you're feeding your dog high quantities of protein, it doesn't matter if it is all high quality protein, it's still more of a stress on the system--the excess protein is wasted. ALL proteins, both high and low quality, produce nitrogenous waste that has to be filtered by the kidneys. My point is that a high protein diet is problematic because it's not needed, and it stresses the system. A regular recommended level of high quality protein is healthier than high levels of protein, regardless of quality. So long as your dog is getting the nutrients it needs for good health, adding more doesn't make it better--it either goes to waste, or it is stressful on the liver and kidneys. I'm just putting that out there and moving on...

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4555860)

Well, yes and no. Beaks and hair are not digestible, and pass though the dog's body much like fiber does. There are ten essential amino that dogs need in their diet (see https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/dog-c...your-dog-needs). If your dog's protein source includes these amino acids, then the dog will get by on less total protein overall, and it will be less stress on the kidneys and liver. Low quality protein that doesn't contain these essential amino acids is simply wasted effort for the dog to digest. But if you're feeding your dog high quantities of protein, it doesn't matter if it is all high quality protein, it's still more of a stress on the system--the excess protein is wasted. ALL proteins, both high and low quality, produce nitrogenous waste that has to be filtered by the kidneys. My point is that a high protein diet is problematic because it's not needed, and it stresses the system. A regular recommended level of high quality protein is healthier than high levels of protein, regardless of quality. So long as your dog is getting the nutrients it needs for good health, adding more doesn't make it better--it either goes to waste, or it is stressful on the liver and kidneys. I'm just putting that out there and moving on...

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4555866)

When you say high protein, what is your number that means high? I disagree that a high quality protein is a stress on the system for a healthy dog. I'm not suggesting 100% protein, but there is a lot of new information out there that suggests at least 30% protein, instead of the common 20-25% found in some famous dog foods. The Best Dog Food - What it's Like & How to Find it | petMD | petMD. So when I say high protein, I just mean the new recommended levels that many vets are suggesting.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4555864)

Okay, high protein may be harmless for most dogs, but is it necessary or desirable? I'll just throw out one last thing (from The Dangers of High Protein Dog Foods | petMD), which is staffed by veterinarians and veterinarian nutritionists:

Is Excessive Protein in Dog Food Bad for My Pet?


Protein is a calorie dense nutrient and many of the high protein diets are extremely high in calories and can quickly lead to weight gain. With over 50% of dogs in the U.S. considered overweight or obese, dog owners need to be aware of where those extra calories are hiding. If a dog has kidney or liver issues consuming too much protein can increase the workload on these organs and upset the balance of nutrients leading to exacerbation of disease.

Rather than look for a dog food that contains excessive levels of protein you should find one that is specifically formulated for your dog’s lifestyle, life stage, and size. A working sled dog, for example, will have significantly different nutrient and caloric requirements than the average pet dog that ventures outside for a few walks a day and spends the rest of the time lounging. These two dogs should not be fed the same diet.

Puppies, meanwhile, require more protein than adult dogs because their bodies are busy growing. Among breeds of puppies there are different requirements for nutrients as well. For instance large breed puppies like Labrador retrievers need a much different diet than a Yorkie for optimal growth. Feeding large breed puppies something that is too high in protein may make them put on weight too quickly causing abnormal joint development and making them more prone to issues like arthritis in the future.

The safest diets are those that have been developed by pet food companies that invest in scientific research, consult with veterinary nutritionists, and perform feeding trials to develop their diets. This will provide a pet food that is properly balanced without any excess nutrients that are unnecessary and in some cases harmful for your dog.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4556029)

These kinds of articles don't mean much to me bc I could go out and find basically the exact same article w/ the title "Is Excessive Carb in Dog Food Bad for my Pet?" and "Is Excessive Fat in Dog Food Bad for my Pet?" or "Is Excessive Fish Oil in Dog Food Bad for my Pet?" and so on -- it's whatever current nutrient is "in vogue" to write about, so they don't really hold weight with me (nor do vets writing about nutrition, lol :rolleyes:). Dog foods are generally very well balanced for, well, dogs...so unless a particular dog has an illness, dog food is unlikely to actually damage them...any more so than our usually very unbalanced human diets do any real, measurable damage to us.

Carbs are metabolized into fat much easier and faster than longer-chain proteins. So again, like I always say -- I'd much rather have a higher protein diet for both human and pets than a higher carb diet. That's my belief and that's what I believe works for me and my dogs.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4556049)

The statement I bolded is definitely not true from a scientific standpoint. I'd rather follow the advice of a veterinary nutritionist, myself. And if I had a dog that is overweight, I'd put it on a diet (reduce food portions, but ensure that the dog is getting all of its nutritional needs met). Extra protein isn't a weight loss solution.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 4556060)

I just read through this thread and all of the information that you shared. I'm hoping that if others read through the thread they will pick up on your veterinary based links to help make decisions regarding this issue. It's always nice to discuss topics while giving our own personal choices and opinions. But the adds bonus of being able to back them up with information shared by the experts (vets) is a most.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4556118)

We have had several people come on this bored and were feeding ther dog Orijen and there dog was having bloody stools but when the switched foods the problems went away. I wish I could remember the thread where a poster said there vet said it was to much protien. That is why I don't suggest Orijen.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4556118)

We have had several people come on this bored and were feeding ther dog Orijen and there dog was having bloody stools but when the switched foods the problems went away. I wish I could remember the thread where a poster said there vet said it was to much protien. That is why I don't suggest Orijen.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4556049)

The statement I bolded is definitely not true from a scientific standpoint. I'd rather follow the advice of a veterinary nutritionist, myself. And if I had a dog that is overweight, I'd put it on a diet (reduce food portions, but ensure that the dog is getting all of its nutritional needs met). Extra protein isn't a weight loss solution.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 4556060)

I just read through this thread and all of the information that you shared. I'm hoping that if others read through the thread they will pick up on your veterinary based links to help make decisions regarding this issue. It's always nice to discuss topics while giving our own personal choices and opinions. But the adds bonus of being able to back them up with information shared by the experts (vets) is a most.