Purina Puppy Chow.. really? Hm.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I don't think that the dog food advisor is COMPLETELY worthless, because at least he publishes ingredients and nutritional content so people can compare brands themselves. That might be helpful if a dog has an allergy to a certain ingredient, or needs a dog food that doesn't have too much protein or fat, etc. I agree that his subjective ratings are somewhat meaningless, and it's better to consult a veterinarian or a veterinarian dietician about your dog's nutritional needs.

I don't see the need for a third party comparative took copied and pasted onto his page. It's more reliable to go to the source. His star ratings that suck people into believing he is some sort of expert render his site a bad starting point in my view.

[Ellie May]

The question was raised in another thread about feeding kibble when we could all just homecook or give canned food. The answer lies in financial expenditure, convenience, or time economy for most people. And for the rest their pups do best on dry food. It would be a massive oversimplification of canine nutrition to say kibble has no place. Contrary to popular opinion corn, wheat, soy, dairy, and byproducts have a place too.

There is no one best diet, but there is a best diet for each individual.

My pup thrived on homecooked food for awhile...and then she didn't. She eats kibble now - one kind and only one kind - made by Purina. So clearly since this company has kept my dog alive I like them. I do not like all of their foods and completely understand why some choose to avoid the company, but they have a place.

Vets do not get much nutrition training. But they do see thousands of animals a year. They know what diets work for which pets and that is worth more than a two week Google education on the topic. They do make money on the foods they sell, but 1) the profit is near nothing when considering how much space is needed to stock it, and 2) they can stick any food brand they want. By the way, it might interest some of you to know that my vet buys her dogs' food at the pet store hecause it is cheaper that way.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I don't see the need for a third party comparative took copied and pasted onto his page. It's more reliable to go to the source. His star ratings that suck people into believing he is some sort of expert render his site a bad starting point in my view.

Good point about the DFA's copy and paste. Also, he chooses only ONE variety to represent a whole product line--the other varieties might have different ingredient lists.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I don't see the need for a third party comparative took copied and pasted onto his page. It's more reliable to go to the source. His star ratings that suck people into believing he is some sort of expert render his site a bad starting point in my view.

I was rather amazed and somewhat disappointed that he stated on his site, that he bases his star rating "on information he gets off the dog food brand sites" because as a small advisory business, he does not have the.....whatever.......to do his own testing. So really, all he does is look on an ingredients list, determine what HE thinks is good or necessary in a pet's diet, and slap a star on it. And look at all the people that go along with this man!!! Some to the point that he is considered a Bible on dog nutrition! And you have people kicking scientific testing and research to the curb over what this man says.....a real problem because science proves "corn, wheat, soy, dairy, and byproducts have a place" also.....these are NOT poisonous to a dogs system, as many would have you believe. Now, if you choose not to feed a product that contains that stuff, great for you! but people should NOT be calling dog food that does contain, in the daily recommended amounts, these ingredients as junk food or crap! Just make it clear that YOU choose not to feed whatever it is you find unacceptable for your pet....not because it is junk or crap, but because it is YOUR choice! Ellie May hit the nail on the head....."It would be a massive oversimplification of canine nutrition to say kibble has no place." It certainly does have a place, and it provides healthy diet choices for millions of pets!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I was rather amazed and somewhat disappointed that he stated on his site, that he bases his star rating "on information he gets off the dog food brand sites" because as a small advisory business, he does not have the.....whatever.......to do his own testing. So really, all he does is look on an ingredients list, determine what HE thinks is good or necessary in a pet's diet, and slap a star on it. And look at all the people that go along with this man!!! Some to the point that he is considered a Bible on dog nutrition! And you have people kicking scientific testing and research to the curb over what this man says.....a real problem because science proves "corn, wheat, soy, dairy, and byproducts have a place" also.....these are NOT poisonous to a dogs system, as many would have you believe. Now, if you choose not to feed a product that contains that stuff, great for you! but people should NOT be calling dog food that does contain, in the daily recommended amounts, these ingredients as junk food or crap! Just make it clear that YOU choose not to feed whatever it is you find unacceptable for your pet....not because it is junk or crap, but because it is YOUR choice! Ellie May hit the nail on the head....."It would be a massive oversimplification of canine nutrition to say kibble has no place." It certainly does have a place, and it provides healthy diet choices for millions of pets!

about a hundred times!!

[BorderKelpie]

I haven't read all the posts and I don't intend to. I also didn't mean to offend LadyJane, just wanted to help, but..

Anyway, as far as education, I have one degree in Animal; Medical Technology and have worked in that field since 1987. I also have another degree in Medical Laboratory Technology and currently (for the last 11+ years) in a trauma center in human medicine.

No, I am not uneducated. I also LOVE research, but I don't just look at numbers. I look at results. I have working dogs and I see results. I have feed the other brands and have had health issues, chronic metabolic problems, etc on Purina and Science Diet. And again, yes, once upon a time, I fed nothing but Purina, since the formulation changed, so did the health on my animals. Not just mine, but fellow dog show and dog sports competitors.

Again, I am sorry you took offense to my post, I just wanted to share and to help.

Good day.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by BorderKelpie

I haven't read all the posts and I don't intend to. I also didn't mean to offend LadyJane, just wanted to help, but..

Anyway, as far as education, I have one degree in Animal; Medical Technology and have worked in that field since 1987. I also have another degree in Medical Laboratory Technology and currently (for the last 11+ years) in a trauma center in human medicine.

No, I am not uneducated. I also LOVE research, but I don't just look at numbers. I look at results. I have working dogs and I see results. I have feed the other brands and have had health issues, chronic metabolic problems, etc on Purina and Science Diet. And again, yes, once upon a time, I fed nothing but Purina, since the formulation changed, so did the health on my animals. Not just mine, but fellow dog show and dog sports competitors.

Again, I am sorry you took offense to my post, I just wanted to share and to help.

Good day.

Unless your a vet nutritionist I'm a bit confused why you sharing your education history, seems kinda off topic. I would read all the posts you might learn something. One should always be open to learning.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by BorderKelpie

I haven't read all the posts and I don't intend to. I also didn't mean to offend LadyJane, just wanted to help, but..

Anyway, as far as education, I have one degree in Animal; Medical Technology and have worked in that field since 1987. I also have another degree in Medical Laboratory Technology and currently (for the last 11+ years) in a trauma center in human medicine.

No, I am not uneducated. I also LOVE research, but I don't just look at numbers. I look at results. I have working dogs and I see results. I have feed the other brands and have had health issues, chronic metabolic problems, etc on Purina and Science Diet. And again, yes, once upon a time, I fed nothing but Purina, since the formulation changed, so did the health on my animals. Not just mine, but fellow dog show and dog sports competitors.

Again, I am sorry you took offense to my post, I just wanted to share and to help.

Good day.

No offense taken from me! I know you were just trying to help. It's so hard when you read certain things online or hear from pet stores, etc, and even in commercials now and then after being so sure of yourself and then seeing total contradictions telling you, NO, these foods are fine, it can get VERY confusing and dog food can be a heated topic on forums lol. And it goes in waves. I find most of the forums I am on now have gone the opposite way where a lot of folks are beginning to just... not care as much, or not be as judgy, etc. When I first joined dog forums in late 2008, it was very much pro-raw all over.

I was a dog food "elitist" not that long ago ... Almost "looked down" on those who were feeding brands I didn't find up to par. I don't believe I was ever nasty about it but I was very sure in what I believed and that it was 1000% right, only to finally realize/admit that nothing is so black and white. And ya know what, the majority of dogs live perfectly happy, well loved lives on all sorts of kibble and survive. I'm not going to sit back and judge people anymore for what they choose to feed their dog. Would *I* feed certain foods? No, I still am more particular about what I feed than most would be but I'm also a lot more lax in a lot of other ways. I still feed Acana kibble because it's just what I notice he does best on! But I have no problem grabbing a bag of Purina Beyond from the grocery store in a pinch, or feeding Cesar wet food or Mighty Dog wet food, or Dentastix as treats.

Basically, I believe we all just truly want what is best for our dogs & need to support one another in owning and enjoying our dogs instead of worrying so much about what others are doing with their dogs (so long as it's not abusive).

[ladyjane]

I am not offended....I just wanted it to be clear that it was a totally inappropriate remark. I said how dare you because I meant it...... You just don't tell people that they are feeding their dogs like livestock. To be offended, I would have to care and be insecure with my choices of what I feed and I am so beyond that. I simply want to be crystal clear that it was extremely ill informed, not to mention judgemental.

[BorderKelpie]

LadyJane, I guess the wording on my post was awkward - what I meant is that Purina and Hill's started treating people's pets like livestock - not that you were. I know you love your pets. I was very disappointed in a situation that caused a lot of pain, heartache and financial loss to fellow competitors over a formulation change that killed a bunch of well loved and cared for show rabbits and the food company was a bit casual in their response to that (fairly widespread) incident.

I never want anyone to experience what I saw other go through with that.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by BorderKelpie

LadyJane, I guess the wording on my post was awkward - what I meant is that Purina and Hill's started treating people's pets like livestock - not that you were. I know you love your pets. I was very disappointed in a situation that caused a lot of pain, heartache and financial loss to fellow competitors over a formulation change that killed a bunch of well loved and cared for show rabbits and the food company was a bit casual in their response to that (fairly widespread) incident.

I never want anyone to experience what I saw other go through with that.

Your wording has not changed much.

[yorkiemini]

Had an interesting talk with the folks at Orijen today.
Several things were shared with me. One I really found interesting is that they told me that Europe had higher standards for dog foods (their company is Canadian) and they ship to Europe so have to meet the standards there.

Anyone else heard that? and know what "higher standards" mean?

[Britster]

Originally Posted by yorkiemini

Had an interesting talk with the folks at Orijen today.
Several things were shared with me. One I really found interesting is that they told me that Europe had higher standards for dog foods (their company is Canadian) and they ship to Europe so have to meet the standards there.

Anyone else heard that? and know what "higher standards" mean?

This explains the EU certification a bit:
Is your choice of pet food APHIS EU Certified? | The DogSmith

[Lilah Charm]

Originally Posted by Britster

This explains the EU certification a bit:
Is your choice of pet food APHIS EU Certified? | The DogSmith

Thanks for the link Britster, I also really liked your post about different strokes for different folks I also had some pretty stone concepts of what I thought was best for dog food and for my dog and have been through a really interesting (and humbling) journey finding that the food that my dog thrives on is very different then what I once thought was best

As far as European quality control standards exceeding american ones, I have been frustrated often to find that is the case- I want to ensure that my dog isn't fed diseased animals and that my kids toys aren't coated in toxins too, dangit! I wonder if there is a list of dog foods with that certification available?

Judy, I know you are very knowledgable about royal canin and in good contact with their company, are you familiar with this set of standards by chance? I was very attentive to the rc debate here on yt when rc switched the Yorkshire terrier 28 formula. My gal had been doing very well on it (the first food ever for the first time in her whole life!) and when the formula changed she would not eat it, so I was distressed. What ultimately happened for us is that we ended up (at your faithful recommendation) switching my Lilah to rc mini- and the world is good again! I appreciated your advisement then and would be curious about your input on the eu standard and value any information you had that specificly pertained to rc.