What to feed for optimal health

[chachi]

No where on Jennys post was the word fact used she said her vet said it was the best food and shes entitled to say that I just wemt through and read her posts

[107barney]

Already at it this morning I see.

[ladyjane]

At least you finally took the time to read some of the thread.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

There is no "one size fits all" food. It is good to have information from both sides but I also think that is why it can be confusing as well.

My experience: We started feeding raw because Sachi didn't like kibble. We tried RC, BB, Solid Gold, Wellness, Acana, and Orijen. She didn't like to eat it and we struggled to feed her the proper amount 3X a day. There were a few occasions that we had to give Nutrical because she wasn't eating enough and I would notice wobbly walking and shaking. We switched her to premade raw when she was about 6 months and we haven't had any problems with her eating since. It works for us. IF there comes a time she needs to modify her diet for any reason, I would have no qualms to do what is in her best interest. My previous yorkie was solely on kibble.

On the flip side, my parents have a terrier mix that has been on kibbles-n-bits, gravy train, purina dog chow, alpo, etc. Most of these are probably 1 star foods. She at a normal weight and is now 20 years old. Never had any major issues either. I pray Sachi lives to be 20!

That is awesome! I pray my boys are around a long time too.

Originally Posted by dawn27

What I think is sad is that once again someone asked a question and it gets totally and I do mean totally blown out of proportion and taken off track. I sure hope that the OP got some answers but when you have to weed through all of this other crap I cant see how. Ridiculous !!

Dawn, please re-read the first post in the thread. The OP states that dogs cannot thrive on kibble and that they are bored eating the same thing every day. The OP more than implies that kibble causes disease.

Why is it not okay for other members to come in and disagree with these assertions? Isn't that the purpose of a discussion forum?

Also, this is hardly the first heated debate about dog food. It has always been a controversial subject here, and all over the internet.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by barneysmommmy

I'm curious. For those of you who feed raw, how do you determine the serving size? Right now mine are on hills because it's the only thing we can find that doesn't cause Anna to itch. Also she was over weight and this food has her on the right track. Her energy level is great. BUT Barney won't eat his kibble now, he will only eat hers. He's underweight and definitely doesn't need to be on hills metabolic. I looked up raw diet, but don't really trust what I saw. We purchase beefalo, which is naturally low fat, locally from a family that doesn't use any pesticides with their beef. I wonder if I could use this to feed my dogs. Can someone explain in more detail what the raw diet is like?

I feed pre-made raw (Primal brand) and can help answer your question and any others you may have. When I started out, I used the feeding calculators that are on the vendors' sites - from there, I just fed based on body condition. If you want to feed Prey Model Raw - like you're describing w/ the 'beefalo', then you want to feed a bit differently.

Here is a thread w/ more info to get you started: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/die...-learning.html

[Wylie's Mom]

Just a comment about food threads here at YT. Food threads can foster a ton of debate - and can often hit a sensitive nerve, for whatever reasons. It's fine to disagree, have a passionate debate, argue respectfully with each other -- there is nothing wrong with a good argument/debate. This is a FORUM, after all, it's not a linear equation where the outcome of any thread question is supposed to go a certain way, and only that way.

I think it's clear that we all know there is no such thing as a *best* diet for dogs - there are no facts to prove that. It is a fact, though, that food threads at YT easily become passionate - so we may as well accept that fact. As long as it's a respectfully passionate discussion - it's all okay. All opinions are welcome.

[barneysmommmy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I feed pre-made raw (Primal brand) and can help answer your question and any others you may have. When I started out, I used the feeding calculators that are on the vendors' sites - from there, I just fed based on body condition. If you want to feed Prey Model Raw - like you're describing w/ the 'beefalo', then you want to feed a bit differently.

Here is a thread w/ more info to get you started: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/die...-learning.html

Thanks so much! I am reading the thread now. I know both of mine love vegetables so that part would be easy. They stand in the kitchen just waiting for something to fall to the floor when I cook. Anna eats like a velociraptor so I am not sure if this would work for her. I'm afraid she would eat hers in 10 seconds and then look around for something else to eat. On the other hand if I put more green beans in hers, the fiber might fill her up.

The reality is that we have to do something for Barney. He is very thin. You can see his hip bones. At his last vet visit, the vet said he really needs to gain at least another half pound. The only dry food he will eat is Anna's metabolic, not appropriate for a skinny dog. We have spent a lot of money trying a lot of different dry foods. The only way he'll eat them is if I hand him one kibble at a time as a reward for tricks. He uses more calories doing the tricks than he gets from the kibble.

[kjc]

The problem may be with the term 'best'. What does that really mean? My understanding is that a raw diet is at the top for being most naturally nutritionally complete. And one has to look at the goal of any food for dogs... which is to replicate what a dog would eat 'in the wild'.

One concern with kibble is that a lot of the additives are synthetic/man-made. Do they provide the same benefits over the long run? Who knows? Research is still being done so it's hard to say.

The article Taylor linked to states that the concern of feeding raw could be a threat to the health of those individuals with compromised immune systems, it says nothing about the general public. The ruling was made with only those individuals in mind.

But then I think that's really no different that people who eat meat. The meat is raw and being handled many times from the grocery store through preparation before it's even cooked for human or animal consumption. There are warning labels on the packages all about safe handling of meat products. Salmonella is always a threat, hence the guidelines for proper cooking and clean up.

And I just want to mention that all of the Salmonella cases I read about involved young children and kibble. There was a recommendation (from somewhere) that children under the age of 6 years should not be allowed to be involved with the direct care of any pet. At age 6 it was determined that children are more functionally developed and will remember to wash their hands after handling the pet, it's food, and any waste. Younger than six and they tend to put their hands in their mouths before washing.

This also includes allowing young children to play with the dog food (seen in my SD's house) and feeding the dog a piece of kibble or treat.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by barneysmommmy

Thanks so much! I am reading the thread now. I know both of mine love vegetables so that part would be easy. They stand in the kitchen just waiting for something to fall to the floor when I cook. Anna eats like a velociraptor so I am not sure if this would work for her. I'm afraid she would eat hers in 10 seconds and then look around for something else to eat. On the other hand if I put more green beans in hers, the fiber might fill her up.

The reality is that we have to do something for Barney. He is very thin. You can see his hip bones. At his last vet visit, the vet said he really needs to gain at least another half pound. The only dry food he will eat is Anna's metabolic, not appropriate for a skinny dog. We have spent a lot of money trying a lot of different dry foods. The only way he'll eat them is if I hand him one kibble at a time as a reward for tricks. He uses more calories doing the tricks than he gets from the kibble.

He may be anorexic ... IMHO I'd do blood work and a BAT test before switching him to raw, as there are a few medical conditions that can prevent weight gain in dogs.

Also I'd feed some canned food (nutritionally more dense than kibble) and/or add Parmesan or cottage cheese, yogurt (if milk tolerant) to entice him to eat. Try moistened kibble too.

[ladyjane]

Blood work is a good idea. There is a GI Panel that is sent to Texas A&M and it covers things like pancreatic insufficiencies (EPI) and small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). I don't know the name of it, but can find out if you need to know. I am sure your vet would be aware of it. I have a friend whose yorkie kept losing weight and had no appetite...they did that panel on him and found out he needs pancreatic enzymes. He is now eating well and gaining weight! He was a really skinny, sickly pup and she had tried everything in terms of food.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by barneysmommmy

Thanks so much! I am reading the thread now. I know both of mine love vegetables so that part would be easy. They stand in the kitchen just waiting for something to fall to the floor when I cook. Anna eats like a velociraptor so I am not sure if this would work for her. I'm afraid she would eat hers in 10 seconds and then look around for something else to eat. On the other hand if I put more green beans in hers, the fiber might fill her up.

The reality is that we have to do something for Barney. He is very thin. You can see his hip bones. At his last vet visit, the vet said he really needs to gain at least another half pound. The only dry food he will eat is Anna's metabolic, not appropriate for a skinny dog. We have spent a lot of money trying a lot of different dry foods. The only way he'll eat them is if I hand him one kibble at a time as a reward for tricks. He uses more calories doing the tricks than he gets from the kibble.

Aw, poor Barney...it has to be hard to watch him struggle to have an appetite, I know that's tough when you just want them to eat and be healthy. Aside from anything being wrong with his health, it seems like some dogs just really struggle with appetite/weight gain...and sometimes for no apparent reason. Do you have any reason to suspect hyperthyroid, btw?

If you want to 'ease in' to raw or try it a little...you may want to consider buying some pre-made freeze dried raw (vs frozen premade raw). Freeze dried is a bit more pricey than frozen pre-made, but it's a way to ease into it *if* going directly to pre-made frozen is something you're not ready for. With freeze dried - you can crumble it up and feed it just dry, or you can crumble it and then add water to it to hydrate it.

Otherwise, you could jump in and go pre-made frozen like with Primal or some other brand. If you go to store where they sell pre-made raw, they'll sometimes have sample packages of raw for a cheap price...sort of a "try it" package. (like this packet)

Some dogs see raw for the first time and just gobble it up like they've never eaten before. Others will sniff it and look at you like "WHAT is this??" since it's different. Not all dogs like it, but it seems like most who try it do. All 3 of mine loved it from the get go.

Prey model raw has a steeper learning curve, but it's doable - and there are people here who feed PMR and love it.

Oh, P.S. -- you've probably already tried sprinkling Parmesan cheese on Barney's food...?

[barneysmommmy]

I have tried enticing him to eat kibble by putting parmesan on and soaking it in broth. Little devil eats around the food and licks off the part he likes. As far as health, he is energetic and playful. He isn't losing weight. He's been stuck at 5.5 pounds since around 10 months old. He's now 14 months. He just has a very hard time gaining weight. He is truly a picky eater and will go on a food strike if he doesn't like it.

Oddly he likes Anna's food but hers is the diet stuff. So he's not getting a lot from it. I tried home made food for a while and he did great with it. We got him from the 4.5 pound stage up to around 5, but Anna loved it too and she flourished to 8 pounds. She should only be around 5 at the most. As far as health goes, he had a lot of digestive issues when he was very young. But he is great now. He hasn't had any loose stool since he was a young pup. So I don't think he has digestive problems.

Will the primal cause Anna to gain her weight back? I am looking on Amazon now to order some.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by barneysmommmy

I have tried enticing him to eat kibble by putting parmesan on and soaking it in broth. Little devil eats around the food and licks off the part he likes. As far as health, he is energetic and playful. He isn't losing weight. He's been stuck at 5.5 pounds since around 10 months old. He's now 14 months. He just has a very hard time gaining weight. He is truly a picky eater and will go on a food strike if he doesn't like it.

Oddly he likes Anna's food but hers is the diet stuff. So he's not getting a lot from it. I tried home made food for a while and he did great with it. We got him from the 4.5 pound stage up to around 5, but Anna loved it too and she flourished to 8 pounds. She should only be around 5 at the most. As far as health goes, he had a lot of digestive issues when he was very young. But he is great now. He hasn't had any loose stool since he was a young pup. So I don't think he has digestive problems.

Will the primal cause Anna to gain her weight back? I am looking on Amazon now to order some.

Oh, strike my comments about blood work! I have a picky eater...finally got her on track but with RX foods because she has a medical issue.

Hopefully you can find something that works! I see you mentioned the Metabolic food...that food can actually be used for maintenance...it is not just diet food!

[barneysmommmy]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Oh, strike my comments about blood work! I have a picky eater...finally got her on track but with RX foods because she has a medical issue.

Hopefully you can find something that works! I see you mentioned the Metabolic food...that food can actually be used for maintenance...it is not just diet food!

Thanks! That actually makes me feel much better. I was afraid it would be bad for him because it was prescription. He loves it. It's so weird. I actually do not have to beg him to eat this kibble. It's very large and he drops it to the floor so it will bounce and he can "kill" it before eating. Maybe I should supplement with eggs, yogurt, and the pre-made raw until he gets to the right weight??? I'm afraid that I might just have a skinny dog on my hands. I wish there was a food they could both eat.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by barneysmommmy

Thanks! That actually makes me feel much better. I was afraid it would be bad for him because it was prescription. He loves it. It's so weird. I actually do not have to beg him to eat this kibble. It's very large and he drops it to the floor so it will bounce and he can "kill" it before eating. Maybe I should supplement with eggs, yogurt, and the pre-made raw until he gets to the right weight??? I'm afraid that I might just have a skinny dog on my hands. I wish there was a food they could both eat.

They can tell you how much he should eat....your vet has access to a chart that gives the amount. I have two on it and they lost weight on the recommended amount and then the amount was recalculated and they are doing fine.
I add some of the canned food to it and they seem to love it. In the past I had given them that R/D and they did not care much for it. I was surprised that they loved the metabolic food.