Good quality food from Petsmart

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Sorry got the threads mixed up. Unless I do an elimination diet with Callie which I fear she just won't eat if I do because she is so picky I won't know which grain it is so I just decided to stay away from them all. I think it's oats but I can't be positive.

I hear ya... I often think Jackson has problems with flaxseed, and possibly tomato pomace, possibly pea protein. Solely going on a hunch, but when he's been fed foods with these ingredients, he has softer stool, and more eye drainage, etc. He did not do well after 6 months of Fromm, and almost all the formulas we fed had ALL 3 of these ingredients together. I used to think it was a sensitivity to chicken possibly, but he didn't seem to have a problem with the small bag of Royal Canin Yorkie we fed, but hard to judge because I wasn't feeding it full time. He's just always done the best on Acana and it doesn't have flax, tomato pomace, pea protein, etc. And the Acana Duck only has oats, which I don't believe he has issue with.

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by R-Teddy

Thats what I get my baby and she does really well on it, wellness core for puppies. Personally I would not recommend any of the science diet food, which would include the Hills Ideal Balance. They are mostly vegi based made and dogs need meat based. I have heard Royal Cain is good to, but I havnt tried it yet. I get mine from petsmart to.

Royal Canin actually as next to no meat in it so I wouldn't recommend this. Pups need proteins and fats to help them grow. So if you are looking to feed them kibble I'd look to your ingredients and make sure there is real meat protein and it's not full of plant or veg protein.
I now feed both dogs raw and have fed my youngest raw since he came home from the breeder, so I tend to vote on the side of raw over kibble for a lot of reasons.
But in the interests of you wishing to feed kibble, you want meat protein, no grain veg or beets. There should be as little ingredients on that packaging as possible and the first few should be whole meats or fish.

I'd stay away from anything Hills, Royal Canin, Purina, Beneful, Iams.
Kibble recommendations I'd say Orijen, Acana, Go, Now and even Fromm.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Royal Canin actually as next to no meat in it so I wouldn't recommend this. Pups need proteins and fats to help them grow. So if you are looking to feed them kibble I'd look to your ingredients and make sure there is real meat protein and it's not full of plant or veg protein.
I now feed both dogs raw and have fed my youngest raw since he came home from the breeder, so I tend to vote on the side of raw over kibble for a lot of reasons.
But in the interests of you wishing to feed kibble, you want meat protein, no grain veg or beets. There should be as little ingredients on that packaging as possible and the first few should be whole meats or fish.

I'd stay away from anything Hills, Royal Canin, Purina, Beneful, Iams.
Kibble recommendations I'd say Orijen, Acana, Go, Now and even Fromm.

None of those you suggested are at Petsmart also there is nothing wrong with grains you just don't want it as the main ingredient.

[Teegy]

They are available at the petsmart here, that's a shame. Dogs systems are not built to digest grains and often grains are sources from GMO farms which can often lead to allergies. I think it best to avoid them and save any issues in your dog

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

They are available at the petsmart here, that's a shame. Dogs systems are not built to digest grains and often grains are sources from GMO farms which can often lead to allergies. I think it best to avoid them and save any issues in your dog

Well at least they don't have them at my Petsmart. I think if the dog doesn't have any problems with a food with grains in it and if it's not the main ingredient I think it's fine. Yorkies are very far from wolves.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Teegy

They are available at the petsmart here, that's a shame. Dogs systems are not built to digest grains and often grains are sources from GMO farms which can often lead to allergies. I think it best to avoid them and save any issues in your dog

You might want to check out these recent studies:
Learning to love cereal was key to the evolution of dogs - The Washington Post
BeverlyOaksVet.com | Can dogs REALLY digest grains and sugars?

As I used to feel the same way you did, but have changed my mind.

And raw is certainly not the "best".

I've seen some very gorgeous athletic on Purina, RC, and Eukanuba. I've also seen some really crappy looking dogs on Orijen and EVO and vice versa. And I KNOW that some dogs do amazing on raw. That's great! But I've browsed enough dog forums through the years and I have seen some very scary advice regarding raw. People who come on and complain of their dogs having loose bloody stool and told it's 'normal at first' or they're going thru a 'detox'. Vomiting, hotspots, losing hair, losing weight rapidly... then people often get offended when someone suggests that MAYBE raw is not the answer for their dog.

And the whole 'wolf' argument. I'm not denying the similarities but really, dogs have been domesticated SO much throughout the years, who is to say their digestive systems hasn't changed either? Certain breeds are prone to or known for specific food sensitives, for example. I mean the domestic dog is probably one of THE most unnatural, human manipulated creatures on the planet.

I'm certain dogs of the past weren't eating raw the way raw is being fed today. They weren't eating kibble either, but you really think people were going to give up their meat (which at one point was a major luxury for humans) to their dogs? The dogs were getting the crap that was leftover.

Dogs are/were scavengers, and evolved alongside humans... eating whatever scraps they could find and corn mush and whatever they could catch themselves. Was it the healthiest? Probably not, but they survived, and some even thrived. Would I CHOOSE to feed a dog food knowing such stuff is in there? It wouldn't be my first choice, simply because we have more options nowadays. I actually read once that breeds like Corgis and Border Collies, and other farm dogs, often do BETTER on grain inclusive foods including corn. One of the goals of early Corgi breeders was to develop an "easy keeper."

Common sense tells me that dogs should be eating meat vs. most other things. But with grain-free, it's like... you're still feeding potatos and peas, so what makes that better/worse than rice and corn, as far as kibble goes?

There's no denying that fresh foods are most likely better than processed kibble. But the judgments that people pass online sometimes for feeding "death nuggets" is quite ridiculous. Hell, even when people bring up HOMECOOKING, I've seen people ask: "WHY?!?! Why would you COOK the food when you can feed it RAW?!?!"

Raw (PMR or BARF) is just not something I'm comfortable with, and have no desire to feed, and I used to feel BAD about it, once I joined internet forums -- it just seemed raw was "THE BEST" and you were inferior if you did not feed raw. A lot of things are spoken repeatedly like a gospel and then people just start to believe it, including myself. It USED to be as simple to me as suggesting: "look for no by-products, first 3-4 ingredients being meat, no corn, wheat, or soy" without ever even paying attention to where the food was being manufactured, company history, quality control, testing involved, etc.

So yeah, I'm kind of 'meh' about the whole thing. I don't care if people feed raw or don't, I think it will work well for some dogs and not others, just as certain kibbles work better for dogs than others. In the end, I think more important is genetics, lifestyle, exercise, physical condition, when or if you spay/neuter, and vaccinations (less of them).

I won't fault those who feel raw is best, I think it's great. I just think some advice that is spouted around on the internet is VERY scary though. That's my biggest fear is people that don't know what they're doing and messing their dog up unnecessarily.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Royal Canin actually as next to no meat in it so I wouldn't recommend this. Pups need proteins and fats to help them grow. So if you are looking to feed them kibble I'd look to your ingredients and make sure there is real meat protein and it's not full of plant or veg protein.
I now feed both dogs raw and have fed my youngest raw since he came home from the breeder, so I tend to vote on the side of raw over kibble for a lot of reasons.
But in the interests of you wishing to feed kibble, you want meat protein, no grain veg or beets. There should be as little ingredients on that packaging as possible and the first few should be whole meats or fish.

I'd stay away from anything Hills, Royal Canin, Purina, Beneful, Iams.
Kibble recommendations I'd say Orijen, Acana, Go, Now and even Fromm.

Actually, RC does have protein coming from real meat, moreso than some of the GF Fromm formulas, whose protein often derives from pea protein, chickpeas, etc.

RC-
Chicken meal, brown rice, rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, barley, wheat gluten, natural chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, dried beet pulp, fish oil, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, vegetable oil, fructooligosaccharides, sodium tripolyphosphate, salt, calcium carbonate, taurine, hydrolyzed yeast, dried egg product, choline chloride, DL-methionine, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], magnesium oxide, trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), tea, L-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.


They use chicken MEAL (which is a good thing, as just 'chicken' is usually 90% water anyway) and chicken fat.

The only thing I really wish about the RC YT formula is that they didn't use 'corn gluten' or 'wheat gluten' but rather simply 'corn' and 'wheat'. I don't see much wrong with corn these days, but I don't like when it's used multiple times in one food (i.e. corn gluten meal, corn, etc) and I prefer not to feed corn gluten for personal reasons.

[Teegy]

I've read the ingredients on royal canin. Chicken meal is not whole meats.
I have seen all I need to see in results that a raw fed diet has improved the health of several dogs. I've seen it first hand and been proud to have been part of helping them out.
Like you have your views and your studies I have my sources and I know what works for me. I prefer raw feeding.
Dogs are not wolves but their digestive systems big or small are the same. I don't see the need to feed lab processed foods to my dogs when they can have a well balanced diet of meat bones and organs. Dogs were eating meat and scraps until man decided to make canned and processed foods.
I would rather feed myself natural foods instead of canned or processed stuff full of stuff most people can't pronounce and I would rather educate myself and feed a well balanced raw meat diet. I am a big advocate of it and will encourage people to do it based on hard facts that I see with my own eyes.
Yes there are people out there who in forums who come across quite harsh but it's only because they are passionate about it and it's all also based on hard fact. You can't deny the strength of a raw diet when 100's of thousands of pet owners around the world are feeding raw and have healthy strong dogs.
If a person chooses to meh raw feeding then let them. But I tend to try something before I poo poo it. I don't eat marmite cos I think it's gross but I tried it and gave it a fair shake first. If anyone approaches me with questions about natural health or the raw diet I will provide them with my resources and gladly help them any way I can. I certainly won't ram it down their throats. I'd rather they learned about it and understood it before they make the change and feel comfortable with it. It comes down to what you personally feel is best for your animals.

[Britster]

I completely respect your opinion. IF I were ever going to feed raw, I'd definitely opt for the pre-made balanced ones, because I'd personally be worried about balancing myself. PMR or BARF is never something I'd feed, just personal preference.

I'm on the verge of homecooking, just haven't started quite yet.

But for now, my kibble-fed 5 1/2 year old dog is doing very well and looks amazing at least IMO. So no complaints here about kibble, it's done us well.

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[Teegy]

I have some great people in my corner I'm lucky to know them and who have really helped educate me. When I can't get to my ladies at Heronview who are amazing, I buy a premade from Bold which is locally produced.
There are a lot of great resources out there for home cooking. My friend found an animal nutritionist that had home cooking recipes. If I find the name I'll share it with you.

[Teegy]

Individualized Nutrition For Your Dogs

[caseymarie09]

Wow! So much to learn about all this! lol. Thank you all so much for all this.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I've read the ingredients on royal canin. Chicken meal is not whole meats.
I have seen all I need to see in results that a raw fed diet has improved the health of several dogs. I've seen it first hand and been proud to have been part of helping them out.
Like you have your views and your studies I have my sources and I know what works for me. I prefer raw feeding.
Dogs are not wolves but their digestive systems big or small are the same. I don't see the need to feed lab processed foods to my dogs when they can have a well balanced diet of meat bones and organs. Dogs were eating meat and scraps until man decided to make canned and processed foods.
I would rather feed myself natural foods instead of canned or processed stuff full of stuff most people can't pronounce and I would rather educate myself and feed a well balanced raw meat diet. I am a big advocate of it and will encourage people to do it based on hard facts that I see with my own eyes.
Yes there are people out there who in forums who come across quite harsh but it's only because they are passionate about it and it's all also based on hard fact. You can't deny the strength of a raw diet when 100's of thousands of pet owners around the world are feeding raw and have healthy strong dogs.
If a person chooses to meh raw feeding then let them. But I tend to try something before I poo poo it. I don't eat marmite cos I think it's gross but I tried it and gave it a fair shake first. If anyone approaches me with questions about natural health or the raw diet I will provide them with my resources and gladly help them any way I can. I certainly won't ram it down their throats. I'd rather they learned about it and understood it before they make the change and feel comfortable with it. It comes down to what you personally feel is best for your animals.

Scraps given to dogs where left over from the cooked food. Also even more dogs are feed dry and wet dog food and live long and very happy lives. There are also many many many dogs who eat prescription foods that have all these so called "terrible" ingredients yet it keeps them alive and many get to live long happy lives. You can like what you feed but don't down grade the risks and don't put down what other people feed. One of the vet associations has made the desition not to support raw feeding and personaly to me that speaks a lot and there are risks just like there are with everything some that seam really serious to me and scary. Personaly I think home cooking is the best out of the options but I don't put down dry food. The truly respected brands do testing and feeding trials to make sure there food is safe and keeping dogs meals balanced, do raw brands do this? There are a lot of myths and not proven things that people like to say raw food helps or does just like there are with dry food or wet food. I think people need to do serious research and not just read a pro raw diet site and information but read the not for raw foods too.