20/20 expose on vet care!!
 

Gosh....I hope many pet owners were watching 20/20 this evening....lots of information covered on consumer scams....and vets were included in the scam. They covered unnecessary testing, dental health/cleanings that actually were not needed, anesthesia risks for unnecessary procedures, the "C" diagnosis that terrifies pet owners, over vaccinating,.....it was very good and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt5, pet owners must be educated on procedures that actually ARE needed, and the imp[ortance of second opinions. I alsway get second opinions from vetrs I know, NOT vets recommended by the vet I am seeing....too easy for "good ole boy club" activities.... Excellent show this evening.....An educated consumer is a dangerous thing for some of these scammers!

I did not see it. All I can say is that we must be educated consumers for our own care and that of our pups.

I am so thankful to have wonderful vets who do not do unecessary testing or procedures. Of that I am very sure. I do know that others do though...I remember one of our foster pups just last year went to a vet who said she needed both knees and hips operated on and he was going to give YHR a deal. The price was not bad BUT we had the foster mom take the pup to the specialist we used and found out that she needed NO surgery...not on her hips or her knees. Either the vet was a dumba$$ or a money grubber. Scary.

I watched this as well. I can't believe vets would do that. Smh.

What I will say though is that I find more vets who don't realize when a pup needs a dental ... more of that happening than the other way around. Most yorkies need them almost yearly. Many other small breeds are the same. I don't know what the special said, but I wish I had seen it.

I wish I had seen it too, sounds interesting. I wonder if it will be available to view later on the internet?

As always it's a buyer beware situation. People should always get quotes up front, and feel free to question the purpose and necessity of any test or procedure, and of course consult another vet if there is any question.

Just like car mechanics, appliance repairmen, etc. there is room to "pad" any work order. Exposing a few bad ones on shows like 20/20 just makes consumers more aware of what to look out for.

I saw it and thought it was pretty good. I guess I am lucky I have a great vet. When I was worried about Callie's growing bump I asked my vet straight out could it be cancer and she looked really good at it and said it really does not look like it and ever aspirated it free and looked at it under the microscope. She said it needs to be removed but is not a thing we need to rush and get done that we can wait until the holiday season is over and or until she needs her teeth clean. They also found the cheapest way for me to get Callie's thyroid tested with her yearly blood work, they said just added it on to the yearly one she was gonna get would cost more and that it would cost less to just get the senior wellness one and it would even check for more stuff then the other one but a thyroid test was part of it. Because Callie seems to go to the vet a lot most of the time they charge us the recheck price for the regular vet visit.

What they said about dentals is that if there is a little tartar build-up, it isn't needed. If there is gingivitis, then a dental is necessary. This is consistent with what we found on my two during their last annual exam. Their vet said that Jez didn't need a dental, but Chuy had a little gingivitis so he had to get one.

During the next annual, I'm going to ask the vet to show me how gingivitis differs from normal pink healthy gums so that I know what to look for. They could conceivably go a whole year -- until their next annual --- without a vet visit, and a lot can happen inside those little mouths in a year's time.

20/20 (11.22.13) | Video - ABC News

Starts at 9:45 mark.

Yes, some vets recommend unnecessary things and some don't. Another thing to pay attention to is if the vet is also the practice owner. Some bosses insist on certain protocols. Veys either follow them or lose their job. But these vets can give their own ooinion/recommendation if specifically asked.

I wouldn't take my dogs to a vet who pushes annal vaccines. Dentistry is a bit more of a grey area. You really can't know for sure if there is a problem until the dog is asleep. Gingivitis is a good reason for a cleaning, but not the only reason.

I didn't see it but I have a friend that's a vet in another state and she was furious!!! Thanks for the link Ellie May, I'm going to have to watch it now. :)

why was she mad?

I do give my vet credit for recognizing the importance of the dental. I don't get all of the vaccinations that he recommends but I do get the dental every year. Buster and Maggie do not like having their teeth brushed even though I've been "brushing" their teeth since they were puppies.

I saw it and thought it was pretty good. Was happy to see that the majority of vets were on the up-and-up. And of course, there will always be less ethical vets too, as there are less ethical people in all professions.

It was interesting to see how WAY more cautious it was recommended to be with dentals...ie, that we shouldn't do a dental unless it's truly necessary/needed due to the obvious add'l risks of anesthesia.

That was interesting. I do find that a lot of vets are the opposite -- and don't recommend dentals enough! However, I definitely think it's more of a small dog problem than a big dog problem. The 2 dogs featured on the special didn't look like they needed them, based upon simply viewing them from my eye.

The vaccine thing is definitely scary. Some vets just don't want to give up the money they make from annual vaccinations.

I love our vet. They are maybe a bit too pricey, but it's worth my peace of mind. They've never really pushed anything on me, and always been realistic, and ASKED me rather than just.... telling me.

I feel, looking back in hindsight, I was ripped off by a different vet... when Jax had his stomach issue, and he had been up all night throwing up, and later turned into a bit of blood, of course it was a Sunday... I decided to try a vet that was open on Sundays, not the ER, to "Avoid the Emergency fees"... At this point, I was just scared... my dog was throwing up blood, he was clearly not feeling well, I was upset (vet could see this), and young, I know looking back he took advantage of me. He spent the night overnight, and now looking back, I don't think it was necessary to put him through it. He came home so scared and traumitized, his butt was disgustingly smelly from anal glands expressing out of fright. I think he would've been fine being sent home with meds and subq fluids. They kept doing blood tests over and over again through the week in house, all kept supposedly coming back with high lipase levels so they thought pancreatitis by that. But they never did the CPL test until 3 days later after 3 blood tests in house, which ended up coming back negative. They were giving him subq fluids every day for like a week. They kept recommending he stay another night, and get more, etc, and finally I was like no.. sorry, don't have the money, he's acting perfectly fine at home, he's eating, drinking, pooping normally, etc. I know my dog well and I know when he's feeling bad. He was almost 100% back to normal the night he got home. Yet I was stupid and kept following their recommendations and bringing him day after day. The doc was just very 'cold' IMO and also looked at me like I was an idiot when I said no I don't want any vaccines, he had them 2 years ago, and he had this shocked look on his face, he was trying to push annual (first of all, like I'm gonna give me sick dog vaccines right now :rolleyes:) I still feel terrible over it, as I know now I could've done things differently, live and learn. It was a $1500 mistake. When I later went to my regular vet and explained everything and showed her paperwork, etc, she kind of just shook her head and said he probably just had a GI upset and definitely shouldn't have needed to stay overnight.

This place was def a vet I would say was unethical from what I experienced, and I've heard lots of real life complaints about them too, and read things online.

But I would say more vets than not are ethical... and they play such a vital role in our pets well-being, and go to a lot of school to get to that point, so their opinion should be respected. But yes I think always questioning and always doing your own research, etc, is important .

I actually thought there would be more to it than what the show outlined.

The marketplace special here in Canada outlined a lot of other serious issues, starting from a perfectly well dog, being ddx'd with this or that or potential illness.

Over vaccination finally seems to be getting into the public awareness, and the more educated the public from authoritative sources the better the health care they will demand from their vets.

Dentals I am a couple of minds about, I do wonder about the repetitive long term affect of putting under a general anaesthesia for the toy breeds, and for senior dogs.
I would like to see more studies researching this aspect. For senior dogs, just what impact does anaesthesia have on cognitive faculties, and how often are their complications from anaesthesia on elderly dogs?

And of course a prime question in my mind is; Yorkies are notorious for bad teeth; why is this so? And is this something that breeders should seriously take into consideration prior to breeding dog a/b or c?

In some breeds bite/teeth are so important that we have DQ's on any other bite than a scissor one, and also DQ's on missing teeth. Why do so many Yorkies have to have baby teeth pulled? Does the holding on of a significant number of baby teeth impact the adult teeth negatively - say at the root level. Or does the constant rubbing of the baby tooth against the permanent tooth wear the enamel very quicly on a new adult tooth?

Those are interesting questions that I personally don't know the answer too.

Her sentiment.....

"Thank you 20/20 for attempting to make the veterinary profession look like a bunch of thieves. You failed. What you showed with your hidden camera was that most veterinarians are honest and ethical. We are some of the best and brightest that chose our career not for the status or for the money, but for love of what we do. Better luck next time."

thank you for the link... I fell asleep and did not see it.

I think most vets are great, but I will be honest I have had some bad experiences. One of my friends jokes with me there at the rate I change vets I will run out of new vets to go to ... not funny!!

I had a real run in over Sammy and what to feed him with his kidney disease. After a bad disagreement.. the vet finally admitted to me he made most of his money on the meds he sells. His clinic really pushes vaccines to the point I am really thinking of changing vets... AGAIN. They state a procedure is one price.. but then they guilt you into extra stuff that is not even a good idea to have .. I just don't know what to do anymore.

The vet I was at before would do procedures without getting permission and then charge me an arm and a leg. I would go in for a check up and it would turn into a $400.00 visit.

The vet before that over vaccinated my little shih tuz and she died.. and when she was sick told me to give her a baby aspirin.

The vet before that wanted to keep my pomp in the clinic overnight..they felt like he would "tell" them why he was not feeling well and if I did not leave him over the week end the coast to an er would be at least double. He was fine, I was just a new puppy mommy and was worried for nothing.

so... any recommendation for a good vet in south miami area????? lol

ok.. just watched. My vet is pretty good afterall. He does push the shots but I can say no. In miami rabies is the law (once a year) so I have to do that.

Bailey had a bumb.. I wanted it removed and my vet said no need. When I choose to have Bailey's teeth cleaned (he is 5 and in the next year or so I would like to have them checked out) we can do that. He doen't push the teeth cleaning too much. So I feel better now.

I don't think they were trying to make vets look bad they where just trying to inform people what they need to be careful about.

Actually I do. Why else call it an "expose". I don't believe for one moment the bulk of vets are money grubbing scoundrels. I do how-ever understand when profitability and ethics can be hard to accomadate, one to the other.

I can give a lot of leeway on the information of immunity and the necessity or (not) of yearly vaccines seems not to have penetrated to the veterinary Associations. And the AVMA needs to communicate directly and emphatically with all their DVM's.

How-ever this is the only medical arena (at least in Canada) that I know of that does NOT have mandatory CEU's Continuing Education Credits, as part of keeping their registration valid. THat is of concern to me. All RHPA health professionals in Canada has a mandatory CEU requirement. I have failed to find on our Canadian Association for Vets where this is elaborated, nor have I found it on the AVMA site.

What bothers me the most, is the apparent (to me) in my experience is lack of education and willingness to learn about a "newish" breed to that vet. What bothers is vets that do not know the latest on spay and neuter research, that do not keep up to date on the latest in many areas; rehab, homeopathy, chiropractic, acupuncture.

If vets truly want to be a valuable and knowledgeable partner in the important work of keeping our dogs healthy, then there is no excuse for not continuing to learn all you can.

I disagree. When you go undercover you're not informing people about what they need to be careful about. They were trying to expose vet's for ordering unnecessary things. IMO that is trying to make them look bad. :confused:

:goodpost:

But only a few wanted to do unnecessary things....... To each there own. I'm just trying to look at the positive side of it and I am glad that this pointed things out for pet owners to look out for.

Sorry, you wanted to know why she was mad and I told. :rolleyes:

I simply don't believe that most vets are looking to rip people off. I know a lot think that because they don't like to spend money on diagnostics and all...but vets need those tests to come to a diagnosis. No, they are not cheap, but no medical care is whether for animals or humans.

This is that vet who brought this issue to 20/20. Note that he has written a book. I would like to know what the dispute was:

Andrew Jones worked as a veterinarian for 17 years. He left the industry after a dispute with his medical board over marketing issues, and wrote a book called, "Veterinary Secrets: Revealed."

I ditto that.

You would think though if she was a vet because she loved animals that she would be happy the public is being informed.

Here is the link about a similar story in Canada the link takes you to the thread and within the first is the link to the CBC video and article on same.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...reporting.html

Some interesting facts from that article - this is all with in Canada

There are 1.9 vets per 1000 dogs in Canada as compared to 1 MD for 1000 humans. A rough and quick financial outlook for a general vet would be - there going in market is 500 dogs per one vet. Roughly an office visit is $45 dollars that is just on regular wellness exams $45x500=$22,500. Not much to come up to a low annual income of $45,000. Now of course regionally numbers will differ, I believe the proportion of the dog population is not evenly dispersed throughout Canada, nor for that matter are the vets!

6 out of 10 vets recommended or wanted to give a booster shot, even though there were clearly told by the owner that the dog was up to date on shots. THat is way too high a %.

This is not good news for the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association. THis is not even getting into the fact that the CVMA does not support the AVMA recommendations on immunization.

I saw the TV show on this and was a bit shocked. I'm glad I have a good Vet who cares about ALL pets and treat them as if they are their own. They have 1,000s of patients and people come from out of state to get their pet the best care for their pet~!

I personally felt that it was a bit misleading. Most dogs do need dentals at some time or other, especially the small breeds. They really played up the anesthesia risk and honestly in this day and age, the risk is not like it used to be. Sure, there is a risk, but when you weigh the likelyhood of a pup becoming ill from the bacteria from periodontal disease against the risk of anesthetic death, hands down the risk of illness is likely while death is unlikely. There are so many people who let their pups get sick due to their fear of anesthesia and then a vet gets on there and plays into it. He had business, in my opinion, to be a bit more informative about what kind of risk there really is.

Definitely state your facts and the research that supports those facts. I probably agree that the risk given new procedures and alternative meds being available in general dogs do okay under anaesthesia. How-ever I have not yet seen a specific study that elaborates if "senior" dogs are at a much higher risk and how much higher the risk is for different scenearios.

Well Linda there are many breeds for example sighthounds that are at high risk from any anaesthesia. Anaesthesia risk overall needs to be assessed against the breed of dog, and for certain the age of the dog, and of course the complicating health factors of a particular dog.

A fully informed disclosure, would state the "reasons" why this dog needs a dental, the risks of this surgery for this dog, and a justification as to why the benefits outweigh the risks. That is a fully disclosed consent to treat in my opinion.