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-   -   20/20 expose on vet care!! (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-health-diet/270404-20-20-expose-vet-care.html)

ladyjane 11-25-2013 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4353376)
Definitely state your facts and the research that supports those facts. I probably agree that the risk given new procedures and alternative meds being available in general dogs do okay under anaesthesia. How-ever I have not yet seen a specific study that elaborates if "senior" dogs are at a much higher risk and how much higher the risk is for different scenearios.

Well Linda there are many breeds for example sighthounds that are at high risk from any anaesthesia. Anaesthesia risk overall needs to be assessed against the breed of dog, and for certain the age of the dog, and of course the complicating health factors of a particular dog.

A fully informed disclosure, would state the "reasons" why this dog needs a dental, the risks of this surgery for this dog, and a justification as to why the benefits outweigh the risks. That is a fully disclosed consent to treat in my opinion.
My concern was the blanket statement. Blanket statements feed into fear mongering is all I am saying. Certainly there are some animals that are at a higher risk than others. But, again, even with a senior pup, I will opt for a dental under anesthesia rather than let him/her become ill from the bacteria. That is my personal choice...I recently did that with my senior, George, who has a collapsing trachea. I took him to a specialist and he was under for three hours and did just fine. I was willing to take the risk with him because his teeth were awful and that would lead to other problems especially his lungs and he does not need that with his trachea. Now, if a senior is really in bad shape, no, I won't do that. I know my vet would not recommend it either...she has advised me not to do dentals on some in the past OR advised me to go to a specialist.

My vet always weighs everything and does give full disclosure. I assume that most do....again there are always bad vets just like there are bad doctors for humans. Bad breeders, bad rescuers... but everyone is not bad.

http://www.aahanet.org/publicdocumen...s_and_cats.pdf

Lovetodream88 11-25-2013 02:23 PM
I have not read this whole thing but it seems interesting Dr. Andrew Jones: Selling ?Secrets? and Lies finally has a price | The SkeptVet Blog

Lovetodream88 11-25-2013 02:32 PM
After reading more about this guy I am more disappointed in the fact that they would even considering puttting this guy on there show. You would think people would research who they are putting on these shows. Ugh.

ladyjane 11-25-2013 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4353382)
I have not read this whole thing but it seems interesting Dr. Andrew Jones: Selling ?Secrets? and Lies finally has a price | The SkeptVet Blog
Yeah, I skimmed it....what I suspected when I watched that show. I will have to read it more in depth later on.

Ellie May 11-27-2013 06:37 AM
Veterinary community doesn't take 20/20 report lying down - DVM

A lot of vets are mad and should be. Exposing overvaccination is one thing, but they didn't say much to lead clients to better protocols. Notice two vets saw an oral mass in one of the dogs (see link). Dentals are sometimes under recommended. Interview answers were also taken out of context.

ladyjane 11-27-2013 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 4353965)
Veterinary community doesn't take 20/20 report lying down - DVM

A lot of vets are mad and should be. Exposing overvaccination is one thing, but they didn't say much to lead clients to better protocols. Notice two vets saw an oral mass in one of the dogs (see link). Dentals are sometimes under recommended. Interview answers were also taken out of context.
Good. The whole thing had red flags all over it...amazing that the network fell for this and chose to do it. Very one sided, twisted and YES it does do exactly what they are saying...it feeds into the fears of people and will prevent many pets from getting proper care. They really should issue an apology imho.

Cha Cha 11-27-2013 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4354003)
Good. The whole thing had red flags all over it...amazing that the network fell for this and chose to do it. Very one sided, twisted and YES it does do exactly what they are saying...it feeds into the fears of people and will prevent many pets from getting proper care. They really should issue an apology imho.


This was the thoughts going through my mind as I watched it.

gemy 11-27-2013 09:22 AM
one of the DVM's did say they are getting a lot of exposure and more chances to "set that record straight". Also many vets now have seen this and might be encouraged to take the time to communicate personally with their patients a little more clearly.

So hopefully a lot more good will come from this than bad.

Lovetodream88 11-27-2013 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4354046)
one of the DVM's did say they are getting a lot of exposure and more chances to "set that record straight". Also many vets now have seen this and might be encouraged to take the time to communicate personally with their patients a little more clearly.

So hopefully a lot more good will come from this than bad.
:thumbup:

ladyjane 11-27-2013 12:01 PM
I think the only thing good that could come of it is for 20/20 to do a better job of interviewing and telling the truth. This thing they did was a disgrace. Creative editing to promote that whiny vet's thoughts.

I believe that most vets are dedicated and do the best they can.

This show could have and my guess DID do a lot of damage. We all see it here all the time...people looking online for answers to their pets' illnesses and not wanting to go to a vet. And, then all of the people who won't spay or neuter or do dentals because of a fear of anesthesia. That show made it seem like anesthesia is a high risk and it just is not true.

IDPiper 11-29-2013 06:51 AM
I have a fear of anesthesia but it's because I know someone who lost their dog while having a dental cleaning and the dog was completely healthy so, I do feel that anesthesia comes with some risk.

20/20 failed miserably on this undercover expose and I feel that they should issue a retraction/apology. I actually watched 60 Minutes here a few weeks ago where they issued an apology for not checking out their source's story better.

I think the show is getting a lot more views/attention after the fact than during the original show. I know I didn't know anything about it until my friend posted about it.

ladyjane 11-29-2013 07:09 AM
No one says there is no risk with anesthesia, but it is rare if the vet is using up to date protocals which includes one staff member dedicated to monitoring the animal while under.
My vet is extremely strict about having someone to monitor....if the person who is assigned to that needs to leave the room for something there must be someone to take his/her place or he/she not allowed to leave.

Lovetodream88 11-29-2013 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4354761)
No one says there is no risk with anesthesia, but it is rare if the vet is using up to date protocals which includes one staff member dedicated to monitoring the animal while under.
My vet is extremely strict about having someone to monitor....if the person who is assigned to that needs to leave the room for something there must be someone to take his/her place or he/she not allowed to leave.
I love that my vet does this it does make me feel better and think its something every one should ask about when having to put there dog under for anything. Pre op blood work is also very important.

Lovetodream88 11-29-2013 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDPiper (Post 4354756)
I have a fear of anesthesia but it's because I know someone who lost their dog while having a dental cleaning and the dog was completely healthy so, I do feel that anesthesia comes with some risk.

20/20 failed miserably on this undercover expose and I feel that they should issue a retraction/apology. I actually watched 60 Minutes here a few weeks ago where they issued an apology for not checking out their source's story better.

I think the show is getting a lot more views/attention after the fact than during the original show. I know I didn't know anything about it until my friend posted about it.
Did they do pre op blood work? What was the cause of death?

IDPiper 11-29-2013 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4354838)
Did they do pre op blood work? What was the cause of death?
I have no idea and what difference does it make? It's my hubby's ex and honestly (this may be mean but...) I really didn't care to know the details. It's just something that has always stuck in the back of my mind.

Anesthesia is just something that has always scared me.

Lovetodream88 11-29-2013 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDPiper (Post 4354891)
I have no idea and what difference does it make? It's my hubby's ex and honestly (this may be mean but...) I really didn't care to know the details. It's just something that has always stuck in the back of my mind.

Anesthesia is just something that has always scared me.
Yeah but it could have been something that could have been found if blood work was done or something like that. Most cases I have heard of dogs dying under anesthesia it was because of a pre existing problem that would have shown up it blood work. My et has been open for 5 years and has only lost one dog under anesthesia and it was her dog. I don't like it either but bad teeth from not getting a dental could cause problems worse. There where three times I had no choice but to put Callie under two for broken tooth and once for knee/acl surgery. It is scary we had a goat that went under surgery to have his urine track rerouted because he kept getting blockages and he had a heart attack in recovery. I fell blessed that Callie does so well with it every time she has been under when they call me they say she wakes up pretty quick.

Britster 11-29-2013 05:19 PM
In 2012, an average of seven people out of one million died from anesthesia.

Studies suggest that for normal, healthy dogs and cats, the risk of death is approximately one in 2,000. For pets with a preexisting disease, that number increases to about one in 500. So the risk of dying, all pets combined, is a fraction of 1 percent.

There is risks associated with everything that we do with our pets. But, to me, a dental is worth it if needed. I don't think scheduling dogs for dentals every year, when they don't really seem to need one, is necessary. I mean, my dads JRT shihtzu mix is 6 1/2 years old and her teeth are nearly perfectly white (never brushed, hardly chews anything, etc). A tiny tiny bit of tarter on her canines, but not much. My dad will not put forth any money for a dental for her, and honestly? I probably wouldn't either. But Yorkies, and other small dogs, are notorious for terrible teeth.

ladyjane 11-29-2013 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4354930)
In 2012, an average of seven people out of one million died from anesthesia.

Studies suggest that for normal, healthy dogs and cats, the risk of death is approximately one in 2,000. For pets with a preexisting disease, that number increases to about one in 500. So the risk of dying, all pets combined, is a fraction of 1 percent.

There is risks associated with everything that we do with our pets. But, to me, a dental is worth it if needed. I don't think scheduling dogs for dentals every year, when they don't really seem to need one, is necessary. I mean, my dads JRT shihtzu mix is 6 1/2 years old and her teeth are nearly perfectly white (never brushed, hardly chews anything, etc). A tiny tiny bit of tarter on her canines, but not much. My dad will not put forth any money for a dental for her, and honestly? I probably wouldn't either. But Yorkies, and other small dogs, are notorious for terrible teeth.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

IDPiper 11-30-2013 07:05 AM
Yeah, but unfortunately hearing statistics doesn't help to ease the fear I have of it. :( I\'m not saying that I would never have anything done that requires anesthesia and if it was absolutely necessary I would but not without severe anxiety.


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