Bare Minimum Vaccines???
 

I will be bringing my Silky-Poo puppy home next week when he will be almost 9 weeks old. I want to be educated about the vaccines/vet stuff I need to do right away, because I don't want to do everything the vet wants just because they say so. My inclination is to do the minimum # of vaccines for my pup to stay healthy. I don't want to go overboard! I just think there are too many risks with vaccines.

Any advice on this?! It's so hard to research as everyone has different opinions! I just can't seem to figure this out!

I would definitely recommend all rounds of puppy shots and the one year booster shot. You want your baby to have proper immunity to disease. After that, I like Dr. Dodd's protocol. Katie was due for her booster this spring, and I had her blood titered to check her immunity. The vaccines scare me, but I also need to know that Katie is protected. The Lepto and Corona part of the vaccines are questionable for Yorkies, and mine never had them. Good luck with your puppy!

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Dr. Dodds' 2012 Canine Vaccination Protocol

http://www.wvgdc.org/html/Dr.%20Dodd...20Protocol.pdf

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thank you! Do you think my vet would be offended if I printed out that page and just asked what she thought of it? I could just say, "I heard this is a conservative protocol and that interests me- how do you feel about this?" And then in the end it really is up to me, right?!

Small breed puppies should stay with there moms until 12 weeks

Definitely :) I think if you have a good vet, or trust in your vet, all will be fine. I know it is hard to 'stand up' to them sometimes because after all, they are the professional. And I have caved before (Jackson went under for a dental cleaning in April, and the tech told me he needed bordatella before the surgery, it's not something I had any desire to do again, but kinda just went 'okay' because he needed the surgery. I think had I spoken to the actual vet, it wouldn't have been a problem).

But anywho, he was due for rabies shot in May so we do follow the law on that (every 3 yrs) and they also asked me if I wanted to do DHP as well since it had been 3 years (since he was 1 year old), I politely said no thanks we'll be skipping those. And that was that.

At your first vet visit, I would just ask if you can just do DHPP and avoid lepto, corona or lyme (non-core vaccines). Rabies is given between 16 weeks or later depending on your county laws. Then you go back around 1 year of age for a booster of DHPP and rabies (preferably on different days). Then you won't have to worry about it for 3 years so you can have time to research and think about it. :)

I posted some info in these threads, you may want to read:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4254265-post41.html

PS- I got Jackson at 9 weeks old and we haven't had any problems. :)

You guys are awesome! Thank you! :) Is the DHPP one vaccine or could you choose not to get certain parts of it if you wanted? I just want to be super careful cuz my baby is SO tiny!!

I've heard some people say this, but around here everyone seems to send them away from their mamas at 8 weeks! They are choosing to keep mine about a week longer. A coworker told me 8 weeks was old and 5 weeks was more common- I thought that was just crazy!

DHPP is a "combo" vaccine. Then you have DHLPP which includes lepto (I personally would opt not to do this. I know personally my dog had a horrid reaction as a puppy, I never again want to see that, little dogs are known for reactions to lepto).

DHPP is distemper, hepatitis, parvovirus and parainfluenza. Most vets just have them all in one -- though I think there are ways to do them individually (like if you just wanted DHP, without the parainfluenza). Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

If it's easier, maybe discuss with your vet if she feels lepto is prevalent in your area or not and if it's even worth getting, maybe tell her your breeder advised you not to (I know a lot of breeders actually do this).

But basically core vaccines are:
distemper, hepatitis, parvovirus
and then rabies

Non-core would be corona, lepto, lymes, flu vaccine, bordatella. I would personally opt not to do any of these.

I wish I would've been more knowledgeable when I got Jackson, bringing him to the vet at 12 weeks and having him have such a terrible reaction was really awful. Wish I would've read up BEFORE bringing him to the vet. If I could do it over, I'd only do DHP (no parainfluenza) 3x (8 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks) then booster at a year. Jackson ended up getting DHPP (8 weeks), DHLPP (12 weeks- with reaction), then DHPP at 16 weeks. Rabies he didn't get until 6 months old or so. We boosted at one year, and he hasn't had any shots since except rabies as required by law every 3yrs and he's had bordatella a few times (with bad luck, always seems to get sick somehow) so never again on that one either for us.

Yes well the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America who makes the standard for the yorkie say reputable breeders keep a puppy until 12 weeks and that, that is what is best for the puppy. Most states its illegal to sell a pup before 8 weeks. Just because lots of people are doing it does not make it right. A puppy learns a lot from there mom up until 12 weeks. Breeders who give them away before 12 weeks don't have the best interest of the dog at heart and are simply interested in only money. Puppies gotten before 12 weeks most often have biting issues, socialization issues, and potty training issues. Even the ASPCA says puppies should not leave there parents before 12 weeks.

You also know that Jackson came from a bad breeder.

Nine weeks is well within the code of ethics for both the Poodle and Silky Clubs. age requirementsvare hotly debated; however, the US tends to spend much more energy enforcing the 'rules' than other countries. Not everyone loks at the YTCA as the authorty, so not everyone will follow their guidelines. There are fery falud concerns about keeping puppies for too long resulting in reduced individualuzed socialization. Each situation should be assessed separately. There is a large number of YTCA breeders that clearly have a lot to learn.

DHP is necessary. Two to four sets depending on when they are started. The last set shoud be gven at or after 16 weeks. It should be redone a year later, then pick from a variety of protocols. I'd do it no more often than every 3 years.
for my digs though, we do it quite a bit less than that.
Rabies is required.
Lepto should he carefully considered.

You guys are all SO helpful!

Also- I think my baby might have some Yorkie in him after all?! I know the dad is a Silky Terrier, but I need to find out if the mom is a Toy Poodle or a Yorkie-Poo. She looks totally poodle to me, but to make a long story short I think she might have some Yorkie, too. I'll be finding this out soon. It's just fun to know. :)

I'm thinking I will start off with distemper, hepatitis, and parvovirus unless the vet has any HUGE objections- like if there's something else that's a really big problem in the area or something. Then of course the rabies vaccine will be a bit later on. :)

Do any of you guys know about what price I should plan on paying for these shots? Do you usually pay up front and then go back the 3x, or do you pay individually each time?

I just want to know what to plan for, and make sure I don't go to a vet that's crazy outrageous or something!

Thanks!

OH and is there a point where my posts will no longer have to be approved before being posted, or does that apply to everyone?

One more question!

How do you guys feel about heart worm medication? I know there is really no such thing as a "preventative", and it's really just treating your dogs monthly "just in case". I would never dream of giving my pet heartguard during the winter months, but I'm still deciding what to do during the summer months?! I don't feel right about poisoning my dog. I feel like it would be similar to me taking antibiotics constantly "just in case"! It's so bad for your body! But at the same time, I don't want to constantly be paranoid about my dog getting heart worm?! I have read tons about how it's actually SUPER rare, especially in my state. But I'm still just not sure what to do. :/

Yep. And if I could do it over again, I would do it the same. I think 9 weeks is a good age personally. I feel he would have been worse off had he had 3 more weeks in that person's house. Not that he was being mistreated or anything but I'm glad I got to begin bonding even earlier with him. Thousands of dogs go to their new homes, big and small, at 8 weeks and are absolutely fine.

:thumbup::thumbup:

I just looked back at our records and it looks like I paid $56.65 for an "annual comprehensive physical exam" at 1 year old and $27.95 for parvo/distemper vaccine.

At our first puppy visit, at a different vet, it looks like new patient exam was $55 and the DHLPP second puppy vaccination was $20.

And yes, you should soon stop being moderated. :)


Heartworm meds are VERY important IMO. I am very much a "minimalist" when it comes to vaccines, health, and everything else, but honestly? Heartworms... I don't mess with. And medications like Heartguard Plus and Sentinel are tested and proven to be effective and completely safe. Some locations are probably safe enough to skip during the winter months, but that would depend. I would also talk to your vet about that.

Jackson gets a Heartguard Plus chewable every month with no ill effects and I feel better giving it rather than risking getting heartworms (which is a horrible disease and a long treatment).

I don't really give flea/tick treatments much unless needed. I usually give a dose or two throughout the summer months and that's it.

And many we have seen have hypoglycemic episodes and die or get very sick because of coming from a bad breeder and die.

Heart worms is not as rare as you think and nothing to play with. The treatment normally kills small dogs if not it makes them very sick and they can have many complications that they will have forever due to the heart worms and the treatment including very serious heart problems. The preventive is not dangerous for them and a whole lot safer then flea and tick preventive but both are extremely important. Heart worm medicine should be given year round. There is no need to take the risk. Please take a look at this website American Heartworm Society | What Is Heartworm Disease?

Before I adopted JuneBug in the middle of June (how he got his name), I lost my chihuahua on May 29th of this year (pictures in albums on my profile). I rescued her from the SPCA and they estimated her age then in 05' between 10-12. She would have been euthanized if I did not take her. I extended her life way longer than anticipated. When I got her, I gave her a 3yr rabies and the only 2 times we went to the vets the next 11-12 years was for an emergency when she lost a nail and was bleeding badly and when she got ill and had diarrhea and would not eat for a couple days. Because she was so old, she was an indoor dog using puppy pads. She was never on heartworm and never got any additional shots. She lived to be 21-22 yrs old. Nuff said!

Now that I have JuneBug, it's a totally different situation. We are social, go out for walks, etc. and he is young. We also live in the #3 state for tick borne illnesses (Lyme & Rocky Mountain) as well as West Nile Virus. When I got him he already had his DHPP, bortadella and tested negative for a 4DX test and is on heartworm. My plan is for yearly wellness exams that include the 4DX test to continue his heartworm. DHPP every 3-4 years as recommended by the AVMA, rabies every 3 years by law and bortadella ONLY if we need to board him. I do not vaccinate for lyme disease even though it runs ramped here. I use Vectra 3D as a precaution and only use half the vial because it is for dogs up to 20 lbs.

I grew up with two dogs who only got there puppy shots and that was it no other shots and no nothing and both got cancer and died........ not getting the shots or using prevention does not make a dog live longer. I am glad your doing better by your yorkie.

I agree that many dogs who go home at 8 weeks are fine. Regarding the bonding, I think there is a misconception that a greater bond is created the earlier a pup goes home. We brought Teddy home at 8 months of age and we have forged the same bond that we have with Max.

She was just sharing a story. She obviously did very well with her 22 year old Chi, so she's not "doing better" by her Yorkie. She is just accomodating to a different lifestyle and what she feels more comfortable with, which is fine. :)

We could relay anecdotal stories all day long about people whose dogs lived to be 20 eating Purina (which, I don't see you feeding, even though MANY people have very healthy long lived dogs eating their food). And I could share the stories of the dogs I knew who were hardly vetted and never given shots besides puppy vaccs that lived to be an old age, and the dogs who were vaccinated every year who died of cancer by 8 or 9. And a Lab or a Golden who dies of cancer at 8 or 9 is going to be a lot more likely than a Yorkie dying at the same age, simply because of genetics, no matter what vaccines were given.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but not everything is so black and white. There is no proof that not over-vaccinating or not using prevention causes a shorter lifespan, or more health problems... but there's plenty of evidence and thorough research indicating that over-vaccination causes more harm than good.

I will continue to "not do best" by Jackson then since I hardly use any prevention (as far as flea/tick meds go) and refuse to give my dog any more vaccinations besides what is legally required of me. I truly believe he is better off for it. Do I think not giving him anymore shots is going to allow him to live to be 25 or outlive dogs given yearly shots? No. But I think as pet parents, we're obligated to research and learn, and inform ourselves how to let our pets live the best life they can, as we are their voice.

FWIW, my dads dogs have not been on heartworm prevention their entire life, and they're 5 and 6. Never any problems. I am not advocating this, and it's more or less that my dad and step-mom just aren't as 'hip' on veterinary care as most of us. But they're well loved, well taken care of animals and family pets. I choose to be a lot more proactive with Jackson but it doesn't necessarily make me a 'better' dog owner.

Oh, I know that. :) I'm sorry if I came across that you can't have as tight of a bond with a dog you get that is older. My step-mom adopted her dog when he was a little over a year and their bond is incredible. I more or less meant that where he was (in the city of Baltimore, in a little rowhouse, not really being socialized properly), I was glad to have him 3 weeks earlier and just begin the process. Not to mention my boy was also already a hefty 5lbs at that point (9 weeks) :p I do understand why tinier dogs would be kept longer.

TRUTH! I feel that most everyone who cares enough to come to this forum really cares about their dogs. As long as we're doing our research and doing what we believe is best for our dogs, I don't feel anyone has the right to judge!

She was just sharing a story. She obviously did very well with her 22 year old Chi, so she's not "doing better" by her Yorkie. She is just accomodating to a different lifestyle and what she feels more comfortable with, which is fine. :)

I will continue to "not do best" by Jackson then since I hardly use any prevention (as far as flea/tick meds go) and refuse to give my dog any more vaccinations besides what is legally required of me. I truly believe he is better off for it. Do I think not giving him anymore shots is going to allow him to live to be 25 or outlive dogs given yearly shots? No. But I think as pet parents, we're obligated to research and learn, and inform ourselves how to let our pets live the best life they can, as we are their voice.

Thank you Britster

First of all, most vaccines that are given to dogs as their "first" or "puppy" vaccines are usually good for anywhere between 4-7 years, if not the whole life of the canine. Many people titer test to see if their canine still has immunity. Anything on the test 2 or below shows immunity but re-vaccination is suggested. Higher the number, the better.

I am definitly not saying DO NOT VACCINATE. Like I stated earlier, I am doing what I think is best for me and my dogs' current lifestyle. My chi was NEVER in contact with other dogs and therefore, no reason to continue to vaccinate against diseases that are contracted through vectors or dog -to- dog. The AVMA has changed their recommendations for core vaccinations to every 3-4 years or at that time, titer test to see what their immunity level is. It is VERY dangerous to over-vaccinate any dog but he smaller breeds suffer the most. They also recommend that any dog over the age of 10 not be re-vaccinated at all!!! (With the exception of rabies by law).

The Lyme vaccine is a bunch of crapola! Wether it is live or dead vaccine, dogs that have received the vaccine with yearly boosters have tested positive for the diesease thru a 4DX test when in reality, they did NOT have it. This leads to vets prescribing Doxycycline to treat the illness which then they later find out was a false positive. If small breed dogs are found to be positive for lymes and DO NOT show any of the symptoms, they SHOULD NOT be treated for it. Vets are prescribing Doxy to small breed dogs with a false positive and the dogs are getting ill from the drug, not the fact that they have the disease.


The best protection you can give your dog in regards to vector borne diseases is to be proactive. I go over my dog with a fine tooth comb wether we are out for 5 minutes just to go potty or if we are out 5 hours at a friends house. I do not like using topicals on my dog for fleas & ticks, but, I put into consideration where I live and what the chances are of JuneBug contracting such diseases. I also never put the whole amount of the topical on him. The topical I use is for dogs up to 20lbs. JB is only 7lbs. so I do what I feel is right. If I lived in an area where I did not have to worry about such things, I would accomodate to what sees fit.

Yes, I have done my research and if anyone would like me to send them some of the links, I'd be more than happy to accomodate :D

My dog is in contact with other dogs, I take him to pet stores, he goes to dog parks sometimes, we go out a lot in public, he is outdoors all the time, in woods, etc, and I still feel perfectly safe with the vaccines he's been given and am not worried one bit.

The Lyme vaccine is kind of a joke IMO. Lyme tests are so inadequate in being able to help determine a definitive diagnosis anyway, so many false-positives and only 5% of dogs show symptoms. My Jackson was one of the 5%, he came up lame one day on his back leg, thought it was odd, did x-rays, etc, it ended up being a positive lymes test. With a few days worth of pain meds and doxycycline, he was 100% better the next day. For the past 3 years, his lyme test has come back negative and he's never had any other symptoms. Whether he's actually negative or not, who knows, but I still wouldn't touch the lyme vaccine with a ten-foot pole.

Lyme vaccines were removed from the human market because they failed to perform the proper safety studies prior to release and because of the numerous adverse events that followed the vaccine, some resulting even in death. There are other tick borne illnesses that are much more serious than Lyme, and we have no vaccines for them. So even if a very safe and effective Lyme vaccine came out, having your dog vaccinated for Lyme isn't going to lessen the need for tick prevention. And for humans, it's a worse disease than for dogs. Rarely is it as serious for a dog to have lymes as a human.

Reasons not to give it:
Revaccination

Lepto is another one. Lepto is really very rare, in the big spectrum of things. Less than 200 cases in the U.S. and half those in Hawaii. It's really common in tropical countries with heavy rainfall. The vaccine doesn't even protect against all the different strains of the lepto. Vets see more cases of reactions to lepto vaccine, than lepto itself.

Either way, I can't give lepto vaccine even if I wanted to (horrid reaction to it).

I think you miss understood what I said. I never said over vaccinating them was dong good by them in fact I never said anything about vaccines at all. I said taking them to the vet regularly and using heart worm preventive on them was doing better by them. Never taking your dog to the vet except for emergency's is not good as well as taking the risk of not giving them heart worm medicine. Many dogs have lived long lives eating table scraps and I don't see you doing that :p Yes we see differently on vaccines that's life but I NEVER EVER said over vaccination them was doing better. In your opinion you think I over vaccinate Callie when many don't as well as many do it my way and there dogs live to be very old, happy and healthy. Chilax

Every one is life judges every one on something no one is perfect but there are people who come here for free advise about things that are not best for there dog and don't care to hear what is best for there dog.

again I absolutely did not say over vaccinating was doing better by your dog I was referring to the going to the vet more often and using heart worm preventive goodness gracious

Lepto can be deadly (I watched a goat die of it) it also can be transmitted to humans. Whether the Lepto vaccine covers all of the strands or not you are much better off at least having protection for the major strands which it does cover. The vet who we went to about the goat which is not my vet said that a lot of cases or Lepto are not reported. Many farmers if an animal dies like one of there goats, cows or so on they normally take care of it and move on and don't involve a vet or anything else. Sense Callie goes to my mom's house where the goat lived who got Lepto and the goat never left the property I will vaccinate against it at least until 8 years old. Decided vaccines is not so cut and dry and black and white as some people like to make it. I absolutely do not take the decision lightly.