Patellas vs. Tracheas
 

Hello,

I'm not sure if I put this under the correct spot in the forum but it seemed appropriate since my concern is health related! I will be picking up my baby girl in a month and was curious on other peoples opinion on what I've been suggested. Apparently using a harness causes strain on the patellas which is worse than a collapsing trachea? Has anyone ever had problems using a harness? I'm not comfortable using a leash and at this point a harness either. :eek::(

I use a harness for all three of my babies with no issues at all....curious to see what others think...

I have never heard of a harness causing strain on patellas, but now that you mention it, if one is a puller (like Uni is), I would suppose that they would "put their back into it" and subsequently put stress on their knees. I think choking them is worse though. Ugh, this is a tough one.

I don't see how using a harness would harm the patellas in any way. There is no way a leg problem could be worse than collapsed trachea. CT interferes with breathing and strains the heart and lungs.

My boys have used harnesses for 4 - 5 years and they have healthy legs.

I suppose strain could be put on the knees, but I don't think it would be much different than pulling on a collar.

The patella's is the back Knees and I don't see how a harness could hurt those. The trachea has to do with breathing so I would think that is most important to be careful about. I would never ever hook a leash to the collar it's just to risky. If for some reason they get luxating patella's from a harness which I think would be hard there is a surgery to fix that with collapsing trachea the surgery is still experimental and doesn't always work. Jumping would be worse for the patella's then a harness.

I forgot to mention...this is not only my first yorkie, but my first dog therefore I wasn't sure exactly which one would be worse and I'm still not actually. I've been told that a collapsing trachea is genetic. Thinking about it, if collars and leads caused this problem, wouldn't there be a lot of show dogs with collapsing tracheas? I guess dogs feel more free in a harness which causes them to start pulling. I definitely understand how this could potentially cause knee and shoulder problems I just wanted to know if anyone has ever had any experience with this.

The patella is actually located on the front of the leg, like ours, it forms the knee. :p

I too think choking is way worse! But Miley is in the process of bring trained not to pull on a collar and leash so I'm afraid to put her in a harness now but I don't like the collar and leash either! :confused:

But it's on the back legs. I know this because my dog has luxating patella and had surgery to fix one of her knees.

LP has said to be genetic to. But a collar and a leash can cause collapsing trachea. Show dogs don't use a collar and leash they use a show lead that hits higher on the neck.

I'm sorry but I can't help but think your breeder is not a good breeder because good breeders of small dogs know never to use a collar for walking on a leash and your pup could very well end up with collapsing trachea later in life because of it. Dogs can be trained not to pull when using a harness and jumping is a much bigger problem for the knees then a harness. Collars also slip off very easy and if for some reason you would need to jerk your dog up because of a problem like a bigger aggressive dog you can do that with a harness but not with a collar.

Collapsed trachea is not just a genetic problem. It can be caused by trauma to the neck and throat, and even allergens or illness.

A dog and human can live without 4 limbs, but cannot live without an air passage. Plus, as I indicated above, CT puts stress on the heart and lungs.

Who is training her with a collar? I strongly disagree with trainers who insist on a collar.

If the theory is that a dog pulls only in a harness because it feels more free, then it would have to be acknowledged that the dog doesn't pull in a collar because the dog is being choked.

Whether a dog is in a collar or harness, training is still required. Neither one magically makes a dog heel and walk properly. Show Yorkies do not wear a traditional collar. A lead with a wide swatch of material is used and the placement is a little different -- plus the dogs are highly trained.

My Yorkies are larger -- 9 pounds -- but have the necks of a dog much tinier, less than 7 inches. No way am I going to put a collar & leash on a neck that delicate. I work hard to discourage pulling, but when the UPS truck goes by, and they snap at the ends of the leashes, I am thankful they are in harnesses. They also have pencil size legs and no signs of patella strain or damage after 4 and 5 years of harness use.

Harnesses are also helpful in emergency situations. I can swing my small dogs into my arms and not worry that their necks are going to be injured.

Patellas -- that has a lot to do with genetics, and activities like jumping from beds and couches and car seats. I am also not aware of many cases here on YT of front leg patella problems, which is where most of the pulling would be done.

Dogs should and must be trained to walk properly whether it is in a harness or a collar. There is equal potentially to train.

OHH! I'm sorry I completely read your message wrong!!

It's possible to have LP in the front legs, not common, is my understanding.

I would appreciate it if we kept my breeder out of this. She is very loving and caring towards Miley and has done nothing to make me question her passion for yorkies. I simply wanted to know everyones opinion on harnesses and if anyone had any problems with knee's and shoulders after using them for years. I completely agree with your last statement. If a bigger dog was to come after Miley I would feel a heck of a lot better pulling her back to me on a harness than I would on a leash! :eek:

Thank you this was very helpful! A lot of what you just said makes complete sense and I WILL be using a harness with her. Is it okay to have a collar on her when on walks though just incase she where to ever get loose or something crazy happened? I purchased her a breakaway cat collar seeing that she is a tiny little squirt! I know its never safe to leave her in the house alone with a collar so that she doesn't get caught on something (thank goodness for breakaway collars ;)).

Is this something you read from a vet site or just some other forum? There's an awful lot of garbage going around. I don't know why a harness would cause patella problems. I do believe you should train your dog to walk without pulling.

I was given this information by my breeder who was given this information by an orthopedic specialist who does knee surgeries and such on dogs. The specialist has smaller yorkies as well. I was very hesitant to post who I was given this information by because I don't want anyone attacking my breeder. My breeder was the best breeder for my family and she has been nothing but great to Miley and I. She never once said not to use a harness she was just informing me on what she knew just like everyone here informs each other of what they know. When you think about what she's saying it DOES make sense...so please NO attacking my breeder. :(

Collars for tags are a big source of debate. Yes, definitely safe to wear on walks (you can also put tags on the harness D-ring). When unsupervised, there is potential for accidents with collars. A breakaway collar prevents that.

On the other hand, collars with ID tags have saved many Yorkies here when the dogs got out of the house unexpectedly.

Whichever you choose, I recommend microchipping your baby as well.

Miley will come microchipped :) oh wow I never thought to put her tags on the d ring of the harness, smart thinking! :D

I would have to say the orthopedic specialist has tunnel vision from his medical practice, and probably decided on the collar thing based on advice from trainers too. A lot of dog trainers believe this because they don't have experience with small dogs, let alone Yorkies.

Okay thank you for your help! I will most definitely NOT be using her collar for a leash and i WILL be going with a harness. Has anyone tried the Puppia harness? i am leaning more towards this one until this is fully grown.

Puppia is a popular brand and I like the look of them. You can tell from my signature which brand is my favorite for my boys. :D

The harness is no different than the collar in that it just restrains them when they push forward with their legs but the leg pressure stays the same. However, wearing a collar, the trachea can get undue pressure and start to affect it adversely, particularly if it is already genetically weakened. And it is a terrible breathing problem to have. If I should have to choose between the two, I would think the knee problem would be far easier and less frightening to manage as the dog can have surgery and have its activities limited to help. With CT, the surgery can help but boy, it's a dreadful disease. But as far as I have read or heard, the harness isn't going to aggravate the patellar tendons anymore than a collar would. I've heard that some of the big cart dog and working dogs tend to pull more in a harness almost genetically and no doubt that could affect a misaligned patella and inflame its tendons but anyone who can control a dog can stop that with even a big dog, let alone a little Yorkie. I use a harness for walks. That way, there is no pulling on his neck and if I ever have to pull my little dog from the jaws of a big attacking dog or the hands of a would-be thief, I won't hurt his trachea or neck.

I'm glad you are considering a harness after all, I did a check and couldn't find anything that said harnesses were bad. I do know that trainers don't like them, but that's another issue, some trainers want to use a choke chain on a yorkie. I personally love the Buddy Belt, I've had to be able to swoop Joey up in my arms at a moment’s notice and you can do this with the buddy belt. Lots of big dogs in the neighborhood and in the park behind us and although we have a leash law, some people believe laws don't apply to them and their dog will charge up to us before I can bend down. Being able to swoop him up in one motion, I believe, has helped save him from injury.

Well I learn something new every day :)

The problem is though you said your breeder is using a collar and a leash and all good breeders know this can be very dangerous for small breed dogs. I could never buy from a breeder who didn't know about the dogs they were breeding.

I use a collar on my Yorkie who has collapsing trachea to hold just her tags but I make it lose enough that if she got stuck she can pull her head out of it but this doesn't always work for puppies though because they like to put the collars in there mouth. I use a buddy belt harness and love it!

There's ortho vets that advise against a lot of these front-clip harnesses out there now, because it's apparently bad for their shoulders. And it makes sense when you think about how they're pulling and how it's shifting their bodies unnnaturally and impeding movement.

But I've never heard of a regular harness causing issues with the patellas? Either way, one needs to train their dog not to pull, and using a collar or harness shouldn't be an issue. I prefer a harness because I feel he's more secure, and I also like the safety aspect of being able to pick him up by his harness if needed (and he's a big boy, at 16lbs) and I still can easily hover him up if needed.

I wouldn't necessarily judge a breeder on the fact that they use collars, a lot of breeders use slip leads, which goes around the neck.