To clarify, I cannot speak for Yorkies, however, if I were to adopt a Doxie puppy, I would definitely have no issue with the breeder choosing to feed PMR at 5 weeks. In my case, I adopted my pet from a shelter at appoximately 4ish years of age.

I do not feed whole prey chickens. I get my chicken the easy way, on sale from Sprouts. I would love to feed the locally raised pastured chicken, however, they are $15 each. The eggs, feet, and offal are a fine addition.

The exact diet that my Doxie, one Weimeraner, one Rat Terrier, and the previously mentioned 26 year old mix follows, may be found here:

How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

Out of all of the doggies, the one with the most sensitivity was the Weim. So we took it very, very slowly.

I don't necessarily think yorkies in general can't handle certain foods. But the diseases that they are prone to are the problem. I think the problem cones in when we don't know if a pup is predisposed to certain problems, esp. pancreatitis. Both fat and protein can trigger it. And once it happens, it is misery.

I'd trust premade raw much faster than prey model. At least the meat is extensively tested. Still would choose not to feed it at all though. Salmonella is one of my lesser concerns. The long list of possible pathogens and parasites are a concern to me. I'm just not convinced that dog immune systems are that much different than ours. And I think there is much less testing done in vet med when dogs get bouts of gi upset. So it is no surprise that internet usersdon't hear about possible issues. And I've read about sooooo many prey model raw fed dogs with stomach problems. It is usually chalked up to user error. Owner is counselled about what to try online while sometimes avoiding the vet. So who knows what is really going on.. JMHO, wolves scavenge and they don't sit there and use their paws to do some math about their meals like percent ratio. And they don't eat chicken backs or the like when they get gi upset... So I just don't think that what is said to be a prey model diet is even what really goes on in the wild.

I'd like to see a link that shows there is rat poison in tge major dog food companies' foods. They have too much to lose.

again jmho, if one thinks they are going to a vet that is being bought, then it is time to switch. Some are easily bought just like human doctors. Many can't be bought.

I like the convenience of kibble and the fact that rx foods exist. ?it is far from fresh and I don't think it is gest for most dogs. Nir do I think that a corn based kibble is automatically a bag of junk.

It's not a trust thing for me. One has dental benefits and the other doesn't. My #1 reason for switching was dental benefits, as my dog is a walking plaque magnet even with daily brushing.

Raw should never be fed to a dog under 3 months, but many so not under 6 everyone makes their own choices I just hope they exercise extreme caution.

A breeder here tried raw on a litter and theybwere too young she almost lost them all.
My BARF mentor was a wolf breeder and I consult my vet for raw feeding advice she promote prey model raw


Great link thanks

I agree... I need to do more research on the mode of transmission though...

It isn't a matter of vets being "bought." It is a matter of the system they are taught in and the benefit to the schools. Vets are not given much study in nutrition. They leave the nutrition to the pet food companies that are supposed to be doing the research and study into what is a healthy diet for a dog. You will find much the same attitude in human doctors concerning nutrition and medications. Those things are left to the nutritionist and the drug companies. Drug company representatives educate your physician about the drugs they prescribe for you.

Unfortunately, since the 1950's dog food has been produced according to what can be easily packaged, transported and live on a shelf for months at a time and not necessarily what is healthy or natural for the animal. That is why dog kibble is baked at least 3 times at high temperatures in order to kill any organic matter in the "meat" so that it will sit on a shelf for long periods of time. Even at that preservatives are often added. Since any nutrition that the animal would get from the protein sources has to be destroyed they then add synthetic vitamins. Much like our white bread. For me convenience is not always the way to obtain the best quality of anything. Fast food is convenient.

I feed my dog commercial frozen raw food. I'm sure it is not perfect but it is made from free range meats that are not injected full of hormones. antibiotics, steroids or any of the other things that most meats on the market have in them. It does not have grain in it and I believe it is much more easily assimilated by the body than a kibble that is quite unnatural for a dog's digestive system. It is not as convenient as dry food by a long shot but to me the health considerations involved are much more important. By the way, the fact that the enzymes in raw that keep teeth tarter free is also a huge consideration.

My vet, though not totally holistic, is very much for feeding raw as long as it is under safe conditions. Others that I know who were told by vets not to use raw were told that the high risk of salaminial was the reason. That seems to go along with this decision to discourage raw feeding. It is my understanding that in order for a recall to be made the salaminial has to be found inside the bags of food. I find it interesting that despite the many recalls of kibble the vets still have no complaint or even warnings against the use or handling of kibble.

As an aside one of my kids knew someone who worked in a pet food factory. (kibble) The machines are supposed to be cleaned after each batch of food is finished. The employee said that the cleaning is very often not done and that is one of the ways salaminial gets into the food. Yuck. I could tell you some other details but lets just say there are many opportunities for bad bacteria to get into the food at these factories. I just encourage kibble users to do a good study of the company you buy from.

I pretty much feel this way currently.

I'm not *against* PMR -- I think if it works great for your dog, that's fantastic. But clearly this much thought did not go into a wolves diet in the wild.

But I often see people asking if loose poop is normal, if some blood is normal, if blah blah blah is normal, etc... and I'll see replies about a detox period, and yes it's normal. But if my dog was having extremely liquid poos for a few days, I would immediately write the diet off. JMO. I don't really consider it "normal".

I know premade raw is a lot more expensive, but I do feel more comfortable with it. Because I do agree that it's far from "natural" to feed kibble, and I think at least with premade raw, you are getting something a little bit more close to it.

The CDC did put out a warning about hand washing for kibble feeders... I think this isartially where quality control comes in and the amount of money spent on it. There is still risk..even with human food. That is unavodable. I think there are more types of pathogens possible in raw meat. Whether each pathogen is a concern is up to the owner.

If I thought my vet or doctor pcked foods or drugs based almost entirely on information from these companies, then I'd move on. Vets don't learn a ton about food in school, but they do see thousands of patients a year on many types of diets. And they tend to know which ones can be problematic...

So now it is not only getting percents of fat to organ meat to myscles meat figured out, but also making sure young puppies don't ear it. Not sure why that would matter if it is species appropriate. I'm just saying...while there probably are voting AVMA members that work for pet food companies, I think some are genuinely concerned as are many vets.

This kind of thing really bothers me. Days of.liquid poop, bloody poop, gas that goes on for weeks, soft stool indefinitely, etc. is not good for dogs. And so many do avod the vet or wait too long. It is a major concern.

Vets receive little training in a variety of topics so I don't know why there is a constant barrage of negativity regarding their training in nutrition. They still have more training and science backgrounds when compared with the average raw food instructor on the internet.

I'm not judging anyone else who chooses raw, but would not choose that option for my dogs. I choose home cooking first and foremost with mostly local ingredients from pastured animals and either organic or sustainable farming practices. I think my dogs have had good overall health despite some breeding issues and some bad luck. I know people who have fed nothing but kibble for their dogs' entire lives and they lived til ripe old ages free from disease. It's in the luck of the draw, I'm convinced or that, or maybe some animals pick their owners (but I digress...) I do use kibble for convenience, and yes, it contains corn because that is the company I trust for quality control and safety, which is my personal #1 factor in selecting a dog food. And anyway, corn is pervasive in our society -- just look at what we feed America's food sources! We have fat pigs, fat cows, and fat chickens and even farmed fish are fed corn. So, if you're buying your meat and fish off a supermarket shelf, you're inevitably unable to escape corn completely.

I do have a question though. If raw is a wolf diet, then why not feed it to puppies? I'm guessing but I would say that it's unlikely the pups in the wild were snacking on kibble while the older kids and parents were dining on flesh and bone and organ meat. Just trying to follow the logic here...

In the wild, mama wolf will chew up and swallow the food, then regurgitate it for the pups to eat. Just a guess, but maybe in the process the food comes into contact with her stomach acid and that kills many pathogens. Also, while they are still nursing some, they will get immunity from their mother.

I'm not sure that prey model alone is an adaquit diet for a domestic dog but I am convinced that for many many centuries dogs had no one to cook for them. They were fed left overs from diets that are much different than the diet we have today. Feral dogs eat raw meat. Domestic dogs were for many, many years fed raw meat. Most of what was prepared for human consumption was used by the humans. Pets were given mostly organ meat and other parts the humans did not consume along with raw bones to chew on.

The meat in a good commercial raw food is no different than the raw meat we buy in the store for ourselves except that it is healthier than most of the meat in the average grocery store. Are they going to start destroying all the pathogens in the meat humans bring home to cook before they buy it? I suppose it is possible with what I have been seeing concerning the regulation of what people eat.

Vets have had very little experience with raw diet and I think that is one of the reasons they are so afraid of it. A very small percentage of dog owners use raw so the experience level does not increase. I'd be willing to bet that most raw feeders have far fewer trips to the vet.

'Xactly. :thumbup:

Very well said...and very true, imo.

Yup yup. Even as a premade raw feeder myself...when I hear of bloody, liquidy, mushy, grainy poo that is ongoing...on ANY diet...something isn't right, for whatever reasons. I've read of people here who try PMR and keep trying it for way too long (imo) when their kiddos systems aren't agreeing w/ it. And actually, I've seen people do the same things here w/ kibble/canned/cooked/premade whatevs.

I loveth the premade, but couldn't do PMR due to choking hazards for my particular crew (altho I do love non-consumable RMBs for my kiddos- esp the Bison Back). I've been lucky in never having poo issues w/ the premade. Knock on woodz.

I think there is more risk involved with handeling dog food tha raw because anyone who feeds raw just knows you need to wash your hands after handeling raw meat it is just common knowledge but people dont necessarily associate handeling kibble and needing to wash your hands thats not so common knowlege

I agree. I think people become too lax with kibble and feel it's completely totally safe.