|
Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member! Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us. |
|
| LinkBack | Thread Tools |
12-17-2011, 10:53 AM | #16 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 189
| Quote:
More on commercial cellulose from The World of Cellulose Gums: "Most commercially used cellulose comes from renewable materials like cotton linter and pulp from softwood trees. Purified celluloses, like powdered cellulose and microcrystalline cellulose, are widely used as sources of insoluble fiber in food products. They can also be used to create special texture effects. Powdered cellulose is a mechanically ground cellulose, and it is mainly used as an anticaking, dispersing and texturizing agent. Microcrystalline cellulose, a more-refined product, is a partially depolymerized cellulose prepared by treating alpha cellulose with mineral acid. Colloidal microcrystalline cellulose is usually processed by adding sodium carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) to depolymerized cellulose before drying it. These products have found a great niche in lowfat applications where they provide fatty texture and creamy mouthfeel. Cellulose can be modified through different chemical reactions to create a wide range of products with very specific characteristics, ranging from products that provide mouthfeel and low viscosity to those capable of creating gels when heated.[...] Three cellulose derivatives are commonly used to create special effects in food products. Probably one of the most-popular gums used in the food industry to create clear solutions is sodium carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC), or cellulose gum, as it is more commonly known. It is an anionic, water-soluble, cellulose ether-obtained by treating cellulose with sodium hydroxide followed by reaction with monochloroacetic acid. This reaction replaces hydroxyl groups with carboxymethyl groups along the cellulose chain." In my opinion, and given that there are a multitude of grain free options to the pet food consumer, the question is not "is it bad", but instead, is it "optimal".
__________________ Beanie the 12 lb Mini Dachshund Fed A Prey Model Raw Diet | |
Welcome Guest! | |
12-17-2011, 02:01 PM | #17 | |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Quote:
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals | |
12-17-2011, 02:04 PM | #18 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| Quote:
__________________ | |
12-17-2011, 02:07 PM | #19 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| Quote:
__________________ | |
12-17-2011, 03:19 PM | #20 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 239
| Quote:
No, but 9 of the cat foods were. From a personal level (and I will admit that for many people I would be considered hyper vigilant) that is enough for me. List of recalls for Pet Food Products from SCIENCE DIET In my area ALL of the science diet foods both dog and cat were pulled off the shelves for months. As a teenager my family did massive research into the dog food industry (similar to what you yourself have done in speaking to a few experts) and a lot of what I heard as a child from various institutions has greatly sullied their reputation for me - and many others. We also ended up talking to several pet owners who paid for private testing and found the foods tested positive for acetaminophen and cyanuric acid. You talked a little about how you wanted to go with foods that had been tested and trialed. Science Diet has a long history of being heavily involved in the nutritional teaching in veterinary schools and has had a heavy hand in what we consider a "complete" diet today. In the past there has been a disconnect between formal education and nutrition in veterinary schools. Some vets (depending on when they trained) may have only taken a single course on it - or no course at all... their knowledge is then learned after the fact, from conferences or material put out from the dog food companies. This still happens, even in 2011 in some schools.I cannot obviously speak for every vet out there, but there are MANY vets who learned EVERYTHING they know about food from SCIENCE DIET. Why? They offered the nutritional information to the veterinary students. In a lot of instances in the past there wasn't much done in the was of research on animal nutrition outside of the pet food industry. This was 10 years ago, but 90% of the 50 vets that ended up being interviewed by the rescue group we had been involved with main source of information was traced back to SD. There is a big reason behind the fact that a very very large percentage of vets across the nation recommend the same dog food company. Ethical? They define what we know as nutritious, and they generally (except for the nature's variety and the ideal balance) pack their foods with fillers and then bulk it with the added vitamins to make up for what they could have added but didn't. This is the funny part about the marketing for the ideal balance, because they talk so much about how balance the food is - but you do not see the same kind of balance in the other blends of foods. (Where corn is the first ingredient, and NEVER meat except for 1 or two specific formations.) There are so many issues in the pet food industry, and really if you look deep enough into every company you will find something. I just feel that if you look at the history and you combine it with their history of ingredients in their food (a vast majority of their food has corn as a first ingredient something which is not digestible by dogs) I have to seriously question their ethics. Like I mentioned before LadyJane, if you group does great on ideal balance I think that's fantastic. The ideal balance and the nature's variety were both SD foods I actually thought looked and sounded worth feeding. The company just doesn't sit well for me. Its just with what I have heard from vets in the past I personally have no trust for Science Diet. (Just as much as I love my current vet she can never seem to tell me why it is that I should switch to SD, just that I well - should!) There is so much information and misinformation out there, if your personal interviews with A&M and other vets led you to choose SD and you are happy and safe with that choice and your dogs are doing good that is all that matters. You did research to come to your choice, and its just that we've experienced different things. I hope you do not feel at any point that I've insulted or attacked your viewpoint because that has never been my intention. I have just spent such a large chunk of my life talking to people and trying to stay current on whats going on - it is very much a passion of mine and as much as I have questioned SD I do believe that this is a step in the right direction and I hope they take this and turn the idea back around onto their other lines. | |
12-17-2011, 03:47 PM | #21 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| Quote:
I honestly have my hands way too full to go into any lengthy posts in response to yours. What I will simply say at this point is that you could make the same claims about all areas of veterinary study. Regular practice vets do not specialize in nutrition...there ARE vets who do specialize and they are the people I go to for nutritional advice. I have seen many people rely on unknown and unverified sources on the internet for nutritional advice and it is not something I would do. As for my group? I am not sure what you mean by that?? I am an individual who has her own pups and foster pups and I choose what they eat. Perhaps you meant they are a group, but I did not want you or anyone else to think I speak for the rescue I volunteer with. And as for A&M, here is the vet I do nutritional consults with. I believe his credentials are impeccable and speak for themselves. He did not choose the food...he gave me the tools. John E Bauer
__________________ | |
12-17-2011, 03:53 PM | #22 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| By the way, vets do learn from Hills and Purina and other companies just like they learn from the drug companies. It is called continuing education! The conspiracy theories sometimes crack me up...but they also concern me because so many people shy away from foods that could save their dog's lives but they have read information such as a dog food company is feeding your dog sawdust. Maddening!
__________________ |
12-17-2011, 04:18 PM | #23 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| Quote:
__________________ | |
12-17-2011, 04:19 PM | #24 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 239
| Quote:
I never discredited your sources, I also never claimed to be a nutritional expert. My information is not verifiable on the internet but it does come from interview of over 75 different veterinary who went to a variety of different schools all recorded between the years of 1995 and 1998. You asked why I thought they were ethical, I shared with you why. No need to make more of this then that. | |
12-17-2011, 05:02 PM | #25 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| Quote:
I made statements about people who claim to be nutritional experts..I did not see you say that. What I am referring to is the many websites that come off as expert but I don't see any credentials. You said your family did all kinds of research and that is where you learned. I would love to see the studies that were done in that research if you don't mind sharing them. I still don't see how you can question the ethics of Hill's. I simply was asking since you made the statement. I live to learn like anyone else. If there is something unethical going on, I surely would want to be informed.
__________________ | |
12-17-2011, 06:14 PM | #26 |
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
Posts: 9,816
| I will never get why people want their regular vets to be specialists. They are generalists. That means they have a broad scope of knowledge in a lot of different topics....nutrition being only one of many. If you want a breath and depth of knowledge on a specialty topic, be it cardiology, neurology, orthopedics, or nutrition, then you need to consult with a specialist or ask your vet to confer for you. If cellulose is not the insoluble fiber of one's choice, then pick something else. The dog food I use has beet pulp in it instead. And when I home cook, I use natural foods to do the same thing (i.e. oats, etc). Right now one of my dogs is eating 100% chick pea. Big deal, it all comes out eventually.
__________________ Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy |
12-17-2011, 06:20 PM | #27 | |
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
Posts: 9,816
| Quote:
__________________ Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy | |
12-17-2011, 07:27 PM | #28 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 239
| Quote:
Trust me, if my vet walked into the exam room and said "Dame, you need to feed Winston SD X because of X" I would in a heartbeart (I HAVE in fact done this for a period of time when he needed to be on canned SD for stomach issues we couldn't sort out.) My ethics or not I would do it. That is not about what we are talking about here 107barney. | |
12-17-2011, 07:44 PM | #29 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,451
| I guess it's just me but if I thought a company was unethical, I would not purchase my pups' foods from them. The bottom line here is that many people continue to bash Hills and there are many people reading this forum who take these things to heart. All I care to do here is inform the people who are interested that my pups are all healthy and eating Hill's products. Someone needs to say it! I don't personally care what others feed their pups...it is an individual choice. I am really sick and tired of armchair nutritionists insinuating that those of us who chose Hills are feeding garbage to our pups. I have a neighbor who feeds his dog what I would not feed ... the cheapest food possible..the pup is 14 years old...large breed and doing well. Lives outside to boot. So, who am I to tell him what to feed? And, do I leave messages where he can see them saying there is this filler or that filler in his dog food? No! I let it go...not my concern.
__________________ Last edited by ladyjane; 12-17-2011 at 07:45 PM. |
12-17-2011, 07:45 PM | #30 | ||
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
Posts: 9,816
| Quote:
Quote:
Seems like your vet recommends and wants you to switch to SD by your own admissions. Yet you say you wont due to ethics. But you have no problem sticking with a vet who doesn't share your ethics. I refer to my earlier post about not letting a vet cut my dog open, diagnose an illness, take blood or urine (or even clip their little toe nails) if I don't share their philosophies. That's my view of ethics, and I just would feel a little disingenuous trusting them for medical and life saving procedures only to reject their common knowledge about a can of chicken and rice or cellulose and corn.
__________________ Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy | ||
Bookmarks |
|
|
| |
|
|
SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart