Symptoms of Cushing's or Hypothyroid? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Taryn0405 · 11-20-2011, 05:59 PM

By the way, you said you saw images of dogs with Cushings and it upset you.

This was my Cammie in September of 2007. She passed away in January 2008. She is completely blind here, however there is no hair loss or pot belly. The meds helped.

Patti · 11-20-2011, 06:14 PM

I know how worried you are it can be scary reading all the information on it. Maya was a pomeranian and had a ton of fur, so even though she lost a lot of fur and had the pot belly she looked perfectly normal until the end. I hope you can get some answers and some sleep. I will keep you both in my prayers.

Jenna AK · 11-20-2011, 08:25 PM

Thank you so much, Taryn & Patti. It really helps to hear people who have been through this.

Well I wound up calling my vet back and luckily she was there because Jenna has been acting 'off' today and I just ran my hand over her side a while ago and she almost retched. Her belly seems tender to the touch so we chose to stop the ketoconazole for now.
We take her in tomorrow a.m. for her first tests. My vet won't be there but one of her associates will be. Since Jenna is obviously unwell this evening I'm to watch for any vomiting and if necessary give fluids or call the ER vet if she gets markedly worse. Poor baby's belly is a bit tight and sensitive. Not sure if she'll eat for me tonight but she pointed her nose at her kibbles and will wag her tail when I call her.
Gosh I feel awful. I hope this med didn't do any damage.

I was hoping it would help.

Taryn your little girl is so precious in that pic!

What a sweetie!

Taryn0405 · 11-20-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenna AK

Thank you so much, Taryn & Patti. It really helps to hear people who have been through this.

Well I wound up calling my vet back and luckily she was there because Jenna has been acting 'off' today and I just ran my hand over her side a while ago and she almost retched. Her belly seems tender to the touch so we chose to stop the ketoconazole for now.
We take her in tomorrow a.m. for her first tests. My vet won't be there but one of her associates will be. Since Jenna is obviously unwell this evening I'm to watch for any vomiting and if necessary give fluids or call the ER vet if she gets markedly worse. Poor baby's belly is a bit tight and sensitive. Not sure if she'll eat for me tonight but she pointed her nose at her kibbles and will wag her tail when I call her.
Gosh I feel awful. I hope this med didn't do any damage.

I was hoping it would help.

Taryn your little girl is so precious in that pic!

What a sweetie!

Good luck tomorrow! I'll keep you both in our prayers tonight! And once again, remember you're doing the right thing by asking questions and researching.
Thanks so much! She was a good little dog who I was honored to spend 9 years with!

ladyjane · 11-21-2011, 06:15 AM

I don't think you are a nutcase for questioning things that a vet is doing. I am, however, a bit confused. You have not done what your vet has suggested in the past and asked us about things which makes me think that you don't trust him/her. I would simply go to another vet for a second opinion rather than insisting that certain testing be done. You very well could be tossing your money to the wind. I personally have never told a vet what to do...yes, I have asked questions about things, but I end up listening to the explanations given and I have a lot of respect for the knowledge my vet has. Now, in saying that, I realize that there are good vets and not so good vets. There again, if I did not trust my vet, I would find another rather than try to tell her and/or direct her to do testing that could very well be barking up the wrong tree.

I am curious here as to why you think ACTH stim test should be done...has your vet done basic lab studies? Is there something in them that would lend one to believe your pup has Cushings? As for thyroid testing, that is a simple blood draw....and my vet does often do that if there is a skin issue. I have three pups with hypothyroidism.

I really hope you get to the bottom of things...I know how frustrating it is to have a sick pup.

Jenna AK · 11-21-2011, 02:16 PM

Headed back from vet, typing in car (yes hubby's driving).
New vet. She did skin scraping. Bacterial infection. 10 days clavamox.
Also ran bloods. CBC came back very nice but for glucose which was 136. Stress reaction. Not considering diabetes. Will post the rest of the numbers when we get home.
Sent thyroid preliminary panel to Michigan lab. We'll get a call when those return.
All in all she found Jenna to be in good shape. Little sweetie's passed out on my lap now. Good...means we get a nap when we get home!

Thanks again for all the good prayers & vibes!

ladyjane · 11-21-2011, 04:05 PM

Glad that you found a new vet...it sounds like she is on the right track. A bacterial infection after all of this? Wow! Well, she should be fine in no time!

I would have thought a skin scraping and lab work would have already been done, but thank goodness it is now! Hope Jenna is feeling better real soon!

Wylie's Mom · 11-21-2011, 04:32 PM

Ooooh gosh. You have a lot going on here, I totally understand why you're stressed. My Wylie has Atypical Cushings as well as Hypothyroid -- they were both diagnosed at the same time, about 3 years ago. His main Cush symptoms were excessive thirst/peeing, fur loss, recurrent skin/ear issues, some muscle wasting in the legs. He had no pot belly or anything close to that (and still doesn't).

This is my favorite overview on Cushings: Cushings

Cushings dogs often have hypothyroid, and many of the symptoms will cross w/ each other -- so trying to differentiate via symptoms right now really wouldn't work. They'd have to be ruled out exclusively. Hypothyroid testing is simple - via a blood test.

Cushings diagnosis is much more complicated. If it's even suspected, the first thing a vet will do is a coritsol:creatinine urine test. This doesn't diagnosis Cushings, it merely directs the vet in terms of whether to test further. If the test shows a possibility of Cushings - then you do an ACTH test; usually, the vet will want to ultrasound the adrenals at this time as well.

Here's a wrench though...your baby is on keto? Because keto is used for *some* types of Cushings -- so definitely remind the vet of this as you go forward in testing. Using keto before/during testing may give a false baseline/result.

Cushings is def a complicated disease, and it can take months to properly diagnosis (depending), so hang in there and know that you'll get your baby through all of this. I was so scared when all this happened w/ Wylie - but he is doing just awesome, and is as wild a man as ever

.

Jenna AK · 11-21-2011, 07:47 PM

Thank you ladyjane and Wylie's Mom. I should clarify that this is still my main vets practice but a different associate. She was a nice lady who took more time with Jenna than the vet I took her to last time. She looked very carefully through her fur and I showed her the skin on her stomach I was concerned about. She used those tape strips on her skin in a few places, pressed glass slides in others and did a scraping just above her right rear hock. (She read through the other doctor's report and no, he hadn't done a scraping. I could've sworn he did, but my memory is shot.)
She agreed we could do the thyroid panel (T3, T4, Free T...not remembering the number...see how bad I am? argh...and also TSH) but wanted to do a basic CBC first to check her liver and other internals.
She came back with the results happily telling me it was a very good panel. Here are the numbers; ALB 3.9, ALP 15 (low), ALT 48, AMY 466, TBIL 0.2, BUN 11, CA 10.0, PHOS 4.5, CRE 0.7, GLU 136 (high due to nerves), NA 143, K+ 4.4, TP 6.4, GLOB 2.5, QC OK, HEM 2+, LIP 0, ICT 0.
Whew! Well that's a lot of gobbledegook but basically the vet thought this was a very good set of numbers, explained them all in plain english to me and said we'd look at those thyroid results when they get back and decide if there's anywhere else we need to go from there. In the meantime, clavamox twice a day, 0.7 ml, for ten days for the bacterial infection.

LJ, Jenna only started the keto this weekend and had three 0.3 ml doses before becoming somewhat swollen and tender in her stomach and almost retching when I touched her last night. She was better by bedtime (no further doses) and mostly perky this morning. The vet was aware of these doses and ran the tests anyway. She seemed more concerned as to whether I had given the prednisone the other vet had prescribed, but by the time we were able to pick that up for her she'd greatly reduced her scratching because I'd changed her food. A few days of gurgling tummy was worth not seeing her scratch as bad, so I went with my gut and didn't give the pred, although I'd had it ready just in case. Since giving her the clavamox when we got home, she seems for now to be feeling more like herself again. I really hope this is all it is!

She also got a nail trim (my eyesight is poor so I tend to be conservative when I do them and they were getting much too long) and I don't know what kind of wash they used on her for her draw, but instead of antiseptic smell she came back smelling like hearts and flowers! Lol...maybe they used a Bach remedy to calm her...the minute she realized what door we'd walked through she was trembling as if she'd swallowed one of those bumble balls the kids used to play with as babies.

I felt so bad for her. She's almost more of a nervous wreck than I am. We've yet to employ her thundershirt and today I was just too scatterbrained to think of it.
Thanks again for all your well wishes and for sharing your experiences. Jenna seems more comfortable now than she's been in awhile and that's a great relief. She and I are very aware of each other's feelings and state of mind and she just seems like she's reached a more familiar place. We both took a good nap this afternoon and she's still stretched out next to me as I type. It's good to get those 'I'm okay' vibes off of her instead of the pained feelings I kept sensing before.
Steps forward. They feel good.

Jenna AK · 11-21-2011, 08:00 PM

Whoops...meant to address the remarks on the ketoconazole in answer to Wylie's Mom and now the edit option has expired! Sorry!
Been a long day...lol.

ladyjane · 11-21-2011, 10:08 PM

I am so happy to hear that Jenna seems better...and also relieved for her mom.

Please keep us posted.

Jenna AK · 11-22-2011, 10:20 PM

Thanks ladyjane.

I was glad to be able to relax too, which I'm sure must help her since she picks up my mood so much.
BTW, did I mention she gained a pound in the last month? 0_o I think the doctor said 7.2 lbs.? That's a little heavy, isn't it, for a yorkie female?
And I can see the clavamox is giving her a bit of upset tummy. Besides canned plain pumpkin, is there anything else I can give to help ease or stave off any diarrhea she might have coming?

ladyjane · 11-22-2011, 10:26 PM

Her weight is not a concern if it is right for her structure. I am sure if she was overweight the vet would have said something.

Clavamox does not always cause GI issues. I have given it many times with no ill effects. Hopefully, Jenna will not have any!

Jenna AK · 11-22-2011, 10:42 PM

Okay, no the vet didn't mention her weight. As she loves to be held though, my arm is protesting. lolz....
She did do pretty well on her amoxicillin earlier in the year, only just beginning to have trouble towards the end of the round I think. Her tummy does gurgle quite a bit though.
I remember having to give this med to my cat after a dental in the spring and boy did he hate it! I think I'm still caryring the scars from his doses.

Messed his tum up pretty bad too.
Thanks again!

ladyjane · 11-23-2011, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenna AK

Okay, no the vet didn't mention her weight. As she loves to be held though, my arm is protesting. lolz....
She did do pretty well on her amoxicillin earlier in the year, only just beginning to have trouble towards the end of the round I think. Her tummy does gurgle quite a bit though.
I remember having to give this med to my cat after a dental in the spring and boy did he hate it! I think I'm still caryring the scars from his doses.

Messed his tum up pretty bad too.
Thanks again!

Oh, do you have the liquid? I find that difficult to give. I always give the pills....they are small enough to hide in things that they like.

11-20-2011, 06:14 PM	#17
Patti Donating YT 30K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 35,509 Blog Entries: 6	I know how worried you are it can be scary reading all the information on it. Maya was a pomeranian and had a ton of fur, so even though she lost a lot of fur and had the pot belly she looked perfectly normal until the end. I hope you can get some answers and some sleep. I will keep you both in my prayers. __________________ Cali Pixie Roxie : RIP Nikki; RIP Maya;RIP my sweet Dixie girl 1/17/08 http://callipuppyscastle.bravehost.com/index.html

11-20-2011, 08:25 PM	#18
Jenna AK YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southwest Oregon, heart left in Alaska Posts: 371 Blog Entries: 1	Thank you so much, Taryn & Patti. It really helps to hear people who have been through this. Well I wound up calling my vet back and luckily she was there because Jenna has been acting 'off' today and I just ran my hand over her side a while ago and she almost retched. Her belly seems tender to the touch so we chose to stop the ketoconazole for now. We take her in tomorrow a.m. for her first tests. My vet won't be there but one of her associates will be. Since Jenna is obviously unwell this evening I'm to watch for any vomiting and if necessary give fluids or call the ER vet if she gets markedly worse. Poor baby's belly is a bit tight and sensitive. Not sure if she'll eat for me tonight but she pointed her nose at her kibbles and will wag her tail when I call her. Gosh I feel awful. I hope this med didn't do any damage. I was hoping it would help. Taryn your little girl is so precious in that pic! What a sweetie! __________________ Jenna Bean ~ ~ An angel on four legs Sometimes I wonder who rescued who?

11-21-2011, 06:15 AM	#20
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	I don't think you are a nutcase for questioning things that a vet is doing. I am, however, a bit confused. You have not done what your vet has suggested in the past and asked us about things which makes me think that you don't trust him/her. I would simply go to another vet for a second opinion rather than insisting that certain testing be done. You very well could be tossing your money to the wind. I personally have never told a vet what to do...yes, I have asked questions about things, but I end up listening to the explanations given and I have a lot of respect for the knowledge my vet has. Now, in saying that, I realize that there are good vets and not so good vets. There again, if I did not trust my vet, I would find another rather than try to tell her and/or direct her to do testing that could very well be barking up the wrong tree. I am curious here as to why you think ACTH stim test should be done...has your vet done basic lab studies? Is there something in them that would lend one to believe your pup has Cushings? As for thyroid testing, that is a simple blood draw....and my vet does often do that if there is a skin issue. I have three pups with hypothyroidism. I really hope you get to the bottom of things...I know how frustrating it is to have a sick pup. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

11-21-2011, 02:16 PM	#21
Jenna AK YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southwest Oregon, heart left in Alaska Posts: 371 Blog Entries: 1	Headed back from vet, typing in car (yes hubby's driving). New vet. She did skin scraping. Bacterial infection. 10 days clavamox. Also ran bloods. CBC came back very nice but for glucose which was 136. Stress reaction. Not considering diabetes. Will post the rest of the numbers when we get home. Sent thyroid preliminary panel to Michigan lab. We'll get a call when those return. All in all she found Jenna to be in good shape. Little sweetie's passed out on my lap now. Good...means we get a nap when we get home! Thanks again for all the good prayers & vibes! __________________ Jenna Bean ~ ~ An angel on four legs Sometimes I wonder who rescued who?

11-21-2011, 04:05 PM	#22
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	Glad that you found a new vet...it sounds like she is on the right track. A bacterial infection after all of this? Wow! Well, she should be fine in no time! I would have thought a skin scraping and lab work would have already been done, but thank goodness it is now! Hope Jenna is feeling better real soon! __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

11-21-2011, 04:32 PM	#23
Wylie's Mom Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 35,889 Blog Entries: 2	Ooooh gosh. You have a lot going on here, I totally understand why you're stressed. My Wylie has Atypical Cushings as well as Hypothyroid -- they were both diagnosed at the same time, about 3 years ago. His main Cush symptoms were excessive thirst/peeing, fur loss, recurrent skin/ear issues, some muscle wasting in the legs. He had no pot belly or anything close to that (and still doesn't). This is my favorite overview on Cushings: Cushings Cushings dogs often have hypothyroid, and many of the symptoms will cross w/ each other -- so trying to differentiate via symptoms right now really wouldn't work. They'd have to be ruled out exclusively. Hypothyroid testing is simple - via a blood test. Cushings diagnosis is much more complicated. If it's even suspected, the first thing a vet will do is a coritsol:creatinine urine test. This doesn't diagnosis Cushings, it merely directs the vet in terms of whether to test further. If the test shows a possibility of Cushings - then you do an ACTH test; usually, the vet will want to ultrasound the adrenals at this time as well. Here's a wrench though...your baby is on keto? Because keto is used for some types of Cushings -- so definitely remind the vet of this as you go forward in testing. Using keto before/during testing may give a false baseline/result. Cushings is def a complicated disease, and it can take months to properly diagnosis (depending), so hang in there and know that you'll get your baby through all of this. I was so scared when all this happened w/ Wylie - but he is doing just awesome, and is as wild a man as ever . __________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann \| Pfeiffer \| Marcel Verdel Purcell \| Wylie \| Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°

11-21-2011, 07:47 PM	#24
Jenna AK YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southwest Oregon, heart left in Alaska Posts: 371 Blog Entries: 1	Thank you ladyjane and Wylie's Mom. I should clarify that this is still my main vets practice but a different associate. She was a nice lady who took more time with Jenna than the vet I took her to last time. She looked very carefully through her fur and I showed her the skin on her stomach I was concerned about. She used those tape strips on her skin in a few places, pressed glass slides in others and did a scraping just above her right rear hock. (She read through the other doctor's report and no, he hadn't done a scraping. I could've sworn he did, but my memory is shot.) She agreed we could do the thyroid panel (T3, T4, Free T...not remembering the number...see how bad I am? argh...and also TSH) but wanted to do a basic CBC first to check her liver and other internals. She came back with the results happily telling me it was a very good panel. Here are the numbers; ALB 3.9, ALP 15 (low), ALT 48, AMY 466, TBIL 0.2, BUN 11, CA 10.0, PHOS 4.5, CRE 0.7, GLU 136 (high due to nerves), NA 143, K+ 4.4, TP 6.4, GLOB 2.5, QC OK, HEM 2+, LIP 0, ICT 0. Whew! Well that's a lot of gobbledegook but basically the vet thought this was a very good set of numbers, explained them all in plain english to me and said we'd look at those thyroid results when they get back and decide if there's anywhere else we need to go from there. In the meantime, clavamox twice a day, 0.7 ml, for ten days for the bacterial infection. LJ, Jenna only started the keto this weekend and had three 0.3 ml doses before becoming somewhat swollen and tender in her stomach and almost retching when I touched her last night. She was better by bedtime (no further doses) and mostly perky this morning. The vet was aware of these doses and ran the tests anyway. She seemed more concerned as to whether I had given the prednisone the other vet had prescribed, but by the time we were able to pick that up for her she'd greatly reduced her scratching because I'd changed her food. A few days of gurgling tummy was worth not seeing her scratch as bad, so I went with my gut and didn't give the pred, although I'd had it ready just in case. Since giving her the clavamox when we got home, she seems for now to be feeling more like herself again. I really hope this is all it is! She also got a nail trim (my eyesight is poor so I tend to be conservative when I do them and they were getting much too long) and I don't know what kind of wash they used on her for her draw, but instead of antiseptic smell she came back smelling like hearts and flowers! Lol...maybe they used a Bach remedy to calm her...the minute she realized what door we'd walked through she was trembling as if she'd swallowed one of those bumble balls the kids used to play with as babies. I felt so bad for her. She's almost more of a nervous wreck than I am. We've yet to employ her thundershirt and today I was just too scatterbrained to think of it. Thanks again for all your well wishes and for sharing your experiences. Jenna seems more comfortable now than she's been in awhile and that's a great relief. She and I are very aware of each other's feelings and state of mind and she just seems like she's reached a more familiar place. We both took a good nap this afternoon and she's still stretched out next to me as I type. It's good to get those 'I'm okay' vibes off of her instead of the pained feelings I kept sensing before. Steps forward. They feel good. __________________ Jenna Bean ~ ~ An angel on four legs Sometimes I wonder who rescued who?

11-21-2011, 08:00 PM	#25
Jenna AK YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southwest Oregon, heart left in Alaska Posts: 371 Blog Entries: 1	Whoops...meant to address the remarks on the ketoconazole in answer to Wylie's Mom and now the edit option has expired! Sorry! Been a long day...lol. __________________ Jenna Bean ~ ~ An angel on four legs Sometimes I wonder who rescued who?

11-21-2011, 10:08 PM	#26
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	I am so happy to hear that Jenna seems better...and also relieved for her mom. Please keep us posted. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

11-22-2011, 10:20 PM	#27
Jenna AK YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southwest Oregon, heart left in Alaska Posts: 371 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks ladyjane. I was glad to be able to relax too, which I'm sure must help her since she picks up my mood so much. BTW, did I mention she gained a pound in the last month? 0_o I think the doctor said 7.2 lbs.? That's a little heavy, isn't it, for a yorkie female? And I can see the clavamox is giving her a bit of upset tummy. Besides canned plain pumpkin, is there anything else I can give to help ease or stave off any diarrhea she might have coming? __________________ Jenna Bean ~ ~ An angel on four legs Sometimes I wonder who rescued who?

11-22-2011, 10:26 PM	#28
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	Her weight is not a concern if it is right for her structure. I am sure if she was overweight the vet would have said something. Clavamox does not always cause GI issues. I have given it many times with no ill effects. Hopefully, Jenna will not have any! __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

11-22-2011, 10:42 PM	#29
Jenna AK YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southwest Oregon, heart left in Alaska Posts: 371 Blog Entries: 1	Okay, no the vet didn't mention her weight. As she loves to be held though, my arm is protesting. lolz.... She did do pretty well on her amoxicillin earlier in the year, only just beginning to have trouble towards the end of the round I think. Her tummy does gurgle quite a bit though. I remember having to give this med to my cat after a dental in the spring and boy did he hate it! I think I'm still caryring the scars from his doses. Messed his tum up pretty bad too. Thanks again! __________________ Jenna Bean ~ ~ An angel on four legs Sometimes I wonder who rescued who?