Ellie May...
 

I have another food question for you..(sorry to keep bothering you)...I was looking at SD products on petco and it appears they have a new line out and I was wondering what you thought about the ingredients, fat and protien levels...

Hill's Science Diet Dog from PETCO.com


thanks so much! :)

I tried the link and it took my to the entire selection of SD products..its the ideal balance adult chicken and brown rice formula.. sorry about that

HERE ARE THE INGREDIENTS..:rolleyes:

Chicken, brown rice, whole grain wheat, cracked pearled barley, soybean meal, chicken meal, pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), dried egg product, natural flavor, whole grain oats, apples, lactic acid, soybean oil, cranberries, peas, carrots, dried beet pulp, iodized salt, flaxseed, broccoli, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement), calcium carbonate, vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, phosphoris acid, beta carotene, rosemary extract.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 21.5%, Crude Fat (min.) 12.5%, Crude Fiber (max.) 3.5%, Moisture (max.) 10.0%, Ash (max.) 5.5%, Linoleic Acid (min.) 2.0%, Calcium (min.) 0.5%, Phosphorus (min.) 0.42%, Vitamin E (min.) 425 IU/kg, Ascorbic Acid* (min.) 85 mg/kg, Omega 3 fatty acid* (min.) 0.3%, Omega 6 fatty acid* (min.) 2.5%. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Nutrients Profile.

Is it this one?

Science Diet Nature's Best Pet Food - Natural Balanced Dog and Cat Food

I am actually thinking of switching to the above.

No its this one...Ideal Balance? Adult Chicken & Brown Rice Dinner - Dry

My dogs dont care much for Natures Best..unfortunatly..

I'd feed it FWIW. No expert though...

I feed the one Linda just posted in Lamb flavor. Having an issue locating it though. One of the small pet boutiques sells the Nature's Best here. Wasn't happy that the major stores don't appear to be stocking it. But it looks like it's possible that the Ideal Balance and Nature's Best are very similar or the same. I wonder if they are labelled differently depending on where they're sold?

Very weird. I had looked at the ingredients and figured it was the Nature's Balance. I just went to their site and copied both of them...ingredients look the same.

I think it's just where they are selling it which is good to know because maybe I can get Rylee's food at Petco.

"Nature's Best" will be more appealing to people shopping at a pet boutique while "Ideal Balance" sounds more like something a mainstream shopper would buy. lol

Huge4all4, ETA my last post to say that soy makes up a portion of the meat in these foods. Not everyone on YT feels that is okay. Your call there...

ETA again. Not meat, protein... Need caffeine.

I don't feed based on what is popular with people on any online forum.

I have..:rolleyes: I am a past follower....Im gonna give this food a try. My dogs were on SD in the past and loved it. I felt like a bad "parent: for feeding them it. No, thier regular foods dont contain the best ingredients out there but my dogs ate it, did well on and I screwed them up by taking them off it..and to me.. that is what made me a bad "parent'!.. I appreciate both of your help with this and Ellie May, I know your not an expert, but I have a lot of respect for you and more so when it comes to food..:)

Well, I don't either (anymore), but I guess for those who think soy isn't okay in pup food, they'll have to pass this one up.

I was turned off to holistic food when realizing most companies lack good quality control, they have zero desire to do any research in canine nutrition, some just employ one or two (IMO unqualified) people to create a kibble!, they dodge questions, some don't do feeding trials, they avoid what they consider bad ingredients by using too many "good" ingredients and then there are excessive amounts of certain things in the food. Also, the larger companies tend to not offer all life stages food and there is a reason for that.

So yeah, I've stopped getting my nutrition advice from forums.

me two, I have been thinking a lot about this food problem and I keep going back in my mind, when all these dogs get sick the vets always go back to SD or purina , so I call my old vet that Ichabob saw 10 yrs ago who also breeds yorkies and ask him his food for thought and he still and always has fed SD. he told me trust the company their research they do and have for years, he also said purina was good but they are a big company with livestock feed as well as pet food.
so with that said I think I am going back to SD, I am feeding merrick now have had no problems, but that little voice inside my head keeps telling me I need to stop and rethink this. when I listen to little voice it's usually right.

I wonder what Dr R thinks of this food. She's probably tired of hearing from me and Ellie May;) but I bet if someone else went to www.petdiets.com and asked her she'd send a general answer. She's away right now though.

I am with you on this one. I am having no problems with the food I am feeding my pups.....BUT I have yet to get any answers from them regarding who their "experts" are that they refer to on their website; and I have a little voice whispering to me as well. I would kick myself if a problem came up later on and I had not listened to my little voice. I have long known that SD does a lot of research and have never had a problem with their RX diets but stayed away from their regular foods. I am more than likely making a switch this week to the Nature's Best.

I can...remind me later on. I am also sending Dr. Bauer at A&M an email asking for his opinion.

That is why I'm staying with more mainstream foods. If something does go wrong, at least I know my pups' health wasn't in the hands of a self proclaimed expert.

Just a side note to everybody reading this thread, you might want to email the company that you use and press them for some details. I sent about 20 emails out to companies trying to get some basic info about their quality control procedures and staff and I'm less than impressed with most of the responses.

One company even told me it would be "cumbersome" to go into detail about it. Excuse me? If I'm feeding my dog your food, you will tell me what things you test every batch for, esp. if you are a small and still untrustworthy company. And don't be surprised when you ask who creates their foods and you get a very generic answer. "Certified nutritionist" means nothing to me (don't even know what it is supposed to mean). "Nutritionists" in general mean nothing to me. "Dr. X" creates our foods (one vet thinks they have such a good reciope that they can feed the nations' dogs?). At least it's entertaining reading their responses. And then they tell me their meat is human grade. Okkkkk, what's that? Pretty sure it is nonexistent. If they mean it is fit for human consumption, then they need to say so. If they don't mean that, then they need to stop trying to trick people.

Are all life stages foods bad?

What I have gathered so far is that they are geared to meet the needs of puppies, so some nutrients may be overfed to adults this way. They do meet AAFCO guidelines for both lifestages, but it depends how comfortable an owner is possibly feeding more of a particular nutrient than what is needed (because AAFCO guidelines already have a safety margin, so nutrients are usually 2-10 times more plentiful in foods than what is required).

I think the point is, puppies require higher amounts of things like calcium (and therefore phosphorus) and whether it is good for an adult to get higher doses of these things is the best thing to do is questionable.

I won't say they are bad. I don't have enough information about it yet. I would say I would prefer not to feed it. The companies that actually study canine nutrition don't seem to sell these kinds of foods...

If I had to feed kibble again, I would only choose from those companies with EU Certification, which is higher than that of the AAFCO. One example being Champion Pet Foods.

Do you have a source comparing and contrasting EU certification vs AAFCO/US standards?

In summary and without time to research it...

See: USDA - APHIS - Regulations and Assessments

and

What ?kind? of Protein is Your Pet Eating?

One main point is that all meat ingredients must be USDA human grade.

Well, I researched it a little.... I could easily spend hours and weeks pouring over these regulations but I just don't have the time unfortunately.

Here's my quick take on it --

All APHIS EU certification really means is that the pet food facility is using animal by-products to make pet food that were derived from some animal that was deemed fit for human consumption at slaughter but are not intended for human consumption because of commercial purposes. These pet food companies make you think you're getting a chicken breast or porterhouse steak but the EU regulation (which governs the APHIS EU Certification process) talks about exactly what it means to have food that is "fit for but not intended for" human consumption. See Article 6
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070724:EN:PDF

APHIS-EU tells us about US exports to the European Union, but it doesn't cover manufacturing in their home countries. Conceivably, products made in the EU could use EU-produced ingredients of lesser quality.

Standards placed on imports are often the home country's way of controlling trade/propping up their own manufacturing, even if it small compared to imports (especially when you are talking US to EU).

I went and bought a 4 pound bag of the Ideal Balance today at my local feed store that only carries SD products. I asked them if they were going to continue to carry it and she said yes, that it was hit and that everyone who has bought it has had good results and was extremely happy with it. They also had natures best on the self that was 13.99 so if they are the same formula then the ideal balance would be def. cheaper.
I have also notice that SD is about the only company that lists things like ash and prophorus levels right on their products. Ive had to contact other more "premuim" brands to find out what the amount was in thier foods. I wonder why that is?
We will stick with SD from now on! :).... thanks agian everyone who has posted with your help and information..

I may go with that one since the Nature's Best is a bit more difficult to find. Petco had some but limited amounts. I can order from my vet, but that is a bit of a pain. I like to go to the store and buy when I need it.

ugh, I didnt add that the Ideal balance was 8.99 verus the 13.99 for the natures best. The pieces are small too so little ones should have no problem eating it.

I did not compare the prices....they do have more of the Ideal Balance, though. Did you buy the small bites?

No, with the Ideal Balance they only carry one formula right now for dogs ages 1 to 6 and that was the chicken and brown rice, the pieces are small. They also carry a senior and a puppy in lamb.
Natures Best carries a small bites and they also carry a lamb flavor.

How small?

Ingredients for Nature's Best (they look a little different):

Ingredients:

Chicken, Brewers Rice, Cracked Pearled Barley, Soybean Meal, Brown Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Powdered Cellulose, Natural Flavor, Whole Grain Oats, Apples, Cranberries, Peas, Carrots, Broccoli, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Lysine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.
Guaranteed Analysis:

Protein 21.5 Minimum, Fat 12.5 Minimum, Crude Fiber 3.5 Maximum, Calcium 0.50 Minimum and 0.90 Maximum, Phosphorus 0.40 Minimum and 0.85 Maximum, Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total 0.30 Minimum
Hill's Science Diet Nature's Best Adult Dog Food at PETCO


Might go with the Ideal Balance if I can find it around here if it's cheaper.