Great information - Dog Food Advisor

[Ellie May]

This is the list I'd choose from.
There may also be some highly qualified nutritionists that work for vet schools.

Diplomate Directory American College of Veterinary Nutrition

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

This is the list I'd choose from.
There may also be some highly qualified nutritionists that work for vet schools.

Diplomate Directory American College of Veterinary Nutrition

That's the list I use as well. And anyway, who's to say that the other person isn't posting nonsense? Her statements about liver and kidney waste products that BonBon posted, for example do not take states of disease into account which is really important in preparing diets for sick animals.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Soy or no soy - interesting debate. I see no problem with a food that has meat protein totally instead of adding soy protein. From what I've read, I'm definitely not convinced that soy is going to hurt a pup. What I am concerned about is high protein diets (20-30% don't fall into this category) and what they do to BUN and things like that. I would not watch a BUN go up in a young dog over a high protein diet, but that's me. And the phosphorus from all this meat when most middle aged dogs have kidney damage already, I think it's best to be careful.

I don't know anything about this nutritionist except what I've read on the About page. Could be totally right about soy. Don't know. But I did see that she doesn't hold a DVM. She is not (and could not be) DACVN. She doesn't have a Ph.D in nutrition, etc. She is a bio major with a certification in animal care and feeding. We all get to choose what we are comfortable with. I'd sooner have my general DVM pick my pup's diet. JMHO.

BTW, the article sites by-products as being inferior. I agree that they are gross and some are less than nutritious, but some are very nutrient rich foods, so I couldn't say they're all bad.

Specifically she says, "•Byproducts of any type are less desirable and only acceptable if they do not make up the main source of animal protein and if the name of the species used is also defined in some manner (e.g. "chicken byproducts" or "beef byproducts" but not "meat byproducts" or "poultry byproducts"). Byproducts consist of anything but the quality cuts of meat and highest quality edible offal used for human consumption."

So I don't think she's saying to avoid by-products, I think she saying that they shouldn't be the first souce of animal protein, and the name of the species should be used. The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products Again, this information is intended to help consumers learn how to choose a suitable food instead of relying on some grading system put out by hobby nutritionists.

[BonBon]

I'd like opinions on the credentials for Sabine Contreras - the author of The Dog Food Project and a self-proclaimed animal nutrition consultant. According to her website:

"At school in Germany she attended Biology and Chemistry classes for 8 and 6 consecutive years respectively and during her 2 1/2 year professional apprenticeship, nutrition/dietetics was part of the accompanying education, and the final written and oral exams by the state of Baden-Württemberg.

After completing coursework in Animal Nutrition, Care, Physiology, Diseases and Parasitology, Sabine earned her certification in Animal Care from the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada."

In Germany, the woman has a combined 14 years of study in Biology and Chemistry, and the mention of oral exams indicates to me that she was in a graduate degree program (comparable to the U.S.'s PhD program?).

In Canada, she earned her certificate from University of Guelph, which is the oldest veterinary school in North America. The certification she received is a continuing education and applied training program offered only to licensed Canadian veterinarians working in the field of Laboratory Animal Medicine.

Are her credentials any less impressive simply because she didn't obtain them in the US? Or am I just completely missing something here? That's definitely possible since I was raised in the US and am not familiar with the education offered in other countries. Still, I assumed that a veterinarian in Canada couldn't be that different from an American veterinarian. What are your opinions?

Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: About Sabine
Program Website - Office of Open Learning - University of Guelph
Ontario Veterinary College - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Ellie May]

No, US is not always better. But I don't see where she did get her doctorate or comparable in vet med? It looks like she got an animal care certificate kind of like this:
Animal Care Training: Online & Distance Learning Programs

If she got her license to practice vet med at U of Guelph, it should say she received it from the Ontario Veterinary College to my knowledge.

All of that education in bio and chem is impressive, but do we know how much of it relates to nutrition? There are tons of bio classes and not too many that relate specifically to just nutrition unless she was in a specialized program She may have gotten something comparable to a Ph.D, but I think there is a lot missing in that bio?

I'd also want to know how much experience she has in treating animals with special needs, who her immediate colleagues are, if she has peer reviewed research/or is she out on her own, particularly if not Boarded in the US. Not that I'm totally against non boarded specialists, but I'd want to make sure my money as going to somebody who could help my dog and not make things worse.

[tem_sat]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Specifically she says, "•Byproducts of any type are less desirable and only acceptable if they do not make up the main source of animal protein and if the name of the species used is also defined in some manner (e.g. "chicken byproducts" or "beef byproducts" but not "meat byproducts" or "poultry byproducts"). Byproducts consist of anything but the quality cuts of meat and highest quality edible offal used for human consumption."

So I don't think she's saying to avoid by-products, I think she saying that they shouldn't be the first souce of animal protein, and the name of the species should be used. The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products Again, this information is intended to help consumers learn how to choose a suitable food instead of relying on some grading system put out by hobby nutritionists.

You (to 107barney) had asked a question earlier whether by-products included liver. Possibly the AAFCO definition here: AAFCO DEFINITIONS OF DOG FOOD INGREDIENTS might cover your question.

For example "chicken by-product meal", would likely not include chicken liver. Liver, kidney, pancreas, spleen, lung, etc., I would assume, would be retained for human consumption, unless specifically listed as an ingredient.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by BonBon

I'd like opinions on the credentials for Sabine Contreras - the author of The Dog Food Project and a self-proclaimed animal nutrition consultant. According to her website:

"At school in Germany she attended Biology and Chemistry classes for 8 and 6 consecutive years respectively and during her 2 1/2 year professional apprenticeship, nutrition/dietetics was part of the accompanying education, and the final written and oral exams by the state of Baden-Württemberg.

After completing coursework in Animal Nutrition, Care, Physiology, Diseases and Parasitology, Sabine earned her certification in Animal Care from the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada."

In Germany, the woman has a combined 14 years of study in Biology and Chemistry, and the mention of oral exams indicates to me that she was in a graduate degree program (comparable to the U.S.'s PhD program?).

In Canada, she earned her certificate from University of Guelph, which is the oldest veterinary school in North America. The certification she received is a continuing education and applied training program offered only to licensed Canadian veterinarians working in the field of Laboratory Animal Medicine.

Are her credentials any less impressive simply because she didn't obtain them in the US? Or am I just completely missing something here? That's definitely possible since I was raised in the US and am not familiar with the education offered in other countries. Still, I assumed that a veterinarian in Canada couldn't be that different from an American veterinarian. What are your opinions?

Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: About Sabine
Program Website - Office of Open Learning - University of Guelph
Ontario Veterinary College - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

She tells more about herself here:

I have completed coursework in Animal Nutrition as part of a study program for my certification in Animal Care.

After researching dog food and studying nutrition independently for some years, I wanted to know what kind of academic education is actually available in the field of pet or dog nutrition. As I found out, there is actually no such thing as a "canine nutritionist". The closest job description I found was that of veterinary nutritionists, veterinarians with a PhD in animal nutrition who are certified by the American College of Veterinary Nutrition. Only very few of them exist, and most of them work for, or are affiliated with, the pet food industry.

Then there are Pet or Animal Nutritionists, who work in the pet food industry. They hold a PhD in small animal nutrition at the very least and their responsibility is to supervise research and development of commercial products, maintain ingredient and product data and provide direction for product evaluation.

Groomers and trainers can become certified through professional associations such as for example the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT) or the National Dog Groomers Association (NDGAA). However, so far no reputable organization has been formed to educate or certify people specifically in the field of canine nutrition.

For all the above reasons I prefer to describe what I do as canine care and nutrition consulting.My goal is to provide unbiased information to people who are interested in learning about better alternatives in care and nutrition for their dogs, and to help them overcome the fear of doing wrong when going against conventional recommendations. At the same time I recognize the progress scientists have made in research fields like for example nutrition, treatment of diseases and parasite control, and consequently my advice is based on sound principles rather than widespread, unfounded claims rampant in many places on the internet.

Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: FAQ

I think her credentials are excellent, I just prefer to do business with someone who is clearly attached to some group like a hospital or university when it comes to something that's life and death. I recommended her site because my studies in nutrition have led me to many of the very same conclusions. There were no huge red flags like on other sites, where I knew she clearly misunderstood some concept. I just think it’s a mistake to take anyone’s word as gospel, even the authorities rarely agree on things, there is still too much unknown, but I do believe she takes a moderate and safe approach to nutrition.

[BonBon]

I first thought the same thing about the certification, but after thoroughly searching that school's website the only certification program I could find was for already licensed vets. Doesn't mean there isn't some other program, maybe even one they've since discontinued.

Her site says to email her with questions, so I think I'll just ask her about her education and professional licenses.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

This is the list I'd choose from.
There may also be some highly qualified nutritionists that work for vet schools.

Diplomate Directory American College of Veterinary Nutrition

Thanks for the list. I was looking for something like this. Couldn't find it when I visited that site earlier.... oops!

There's actually one right in Rockville, which is only 25 mins from me or so.

How do you even go about contacting them, though? There is no phone number, site, or office listed.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Britster

Thanks for the list. I was looking for something like this. Couldn't find it when I visited that site earlier.... oops!

There's actually one right in Rockville, which is only 25 mins from me or so.

How do you even go about contacting them, though? There is no phone number, site, or office listed.

Many of us have done phone consults. I am close to Boston, but I cant get up there much so I do phone consults. All of them review the dog's medical info, and then talk to you. I just posted how I thought you'd benefit from doing a consult.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Many of us have done phone consults. I am close to Boston, but I cant get up there much so I do phone consults. All of them review the dog's medical info, and then talk to you. I just posted how I thought you'd benefit from doing a consult.

I don't mind doing a phone consult... but can't even find a phone number, lol.

[Ellie May]

I'd take each name and Google individually. Not all of them will consult with pet owners.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Britster

I don't mind doing a phone consult... but can't even find a phone number, lol.

Brit, I think the one you're looking at works for the FDA in Rockville, MD. This link has an address and phone number, but he may not be in private practice for consults.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/animalv.../ucm052662.pdf

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'd take each name and Google individually. Not all of them will consult with pet owners.

Gotcha! OK, thanks.

Originally Posted by BonBon

Brit, I think the one you're looking at works for the FDA in Rockville, MD. This link has an address and phone number, but he may not be in private practice for consults.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/animalv.../ucm052662.pdf

This would make sense! Thank you!

[107barney]

Here is the list I took from the BalanceIt website.

Veterinary Nutritional Consultations
http://www.petdiets.com
800-649-2043

University of California, Davis
http://nutrition.vetmed.ucdavis.edu
530-752-7892
VA-MD Regional College of Veterinary Medicine
http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/vth/nutrition.asp

http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/vth/nutrition.asp
540-231-4621

University of Missouri
http://www.vmth.missouri.edu/clin_nu.htm
573-882-7821

University of Tennessee
http://www.vet.utk.edu/clinical/sacs/nutrition.php
865-974-8387

North Carolina State University College of Veterinary Medicine
http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/clinical...tion/index.htm
919-513-6871

Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/fhsa/veteri...nutrition.html
508-839-5395 ex 84696