Thoughts on Raw Diet.....

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by jeamsden

Thank you for your response. Sorry, that it became a heated convo. I am sure we all have different opinions about a number of issues. Well, I have my little girl her first taste of PRIMAL beef and she LOVED it. I am slowly introducing it to her and will watch her reaction. Thank you again

I apologize for my over reaction to your post it just took me by surprise how confrontational it seemed for a first post. I do appreciate and value all opinions because they are a learning tool for me. I apologize for MY confrontational post.

[tjdmom]

I thought I would add a link to a site I like alot and it talks alot about the many myths of a raw diet. The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
Yes, cooked bones are a huge no no! And can a dog choke on a bone, of course and dogs have been known to choke on toys and things they just get into and I've even heard they can choke on kibble too. There are no guarantees in life and to me, the benefits far outweigh the small risks.

The other thing I want to adress is how people are worried they can not balance the diet. I'm just wondering how these people balance their own diets. I think humans require alot more "balancing" than dogs do because we are omnivores. It's almost like saying I'm afraid I won't balance my diet properly so I'll just go to McDonalds everyday. We don't trust others to balance our own diets so why do we think that others can do a better job for our dogs than we do?

Having said that, I do realize that not everyone is meant to be a raw feeder and we all have to make the best choices we can and understand that sometimes in life, there are no perfect answers.

I can tell you the benefits I see though:
Smaller and less infrequent stools and less smelly too. And I mean way smaller.

Cleaner teeth.

Less smelly breath

Healthy coats

And the number one reason is because my dogs love it. I can actually see when I do occasionally use kibble that they are just eating because they have to and they don't eat much but with raw, they look forward to it and you can see how much they enjoy it!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by tjdmom

I thought I would add a link to a site I like alot and it talks alot about the many myths of a raw diet. The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
Yes, cooked bones are a huge no no! And can a dog choke on a bone, of course and dogs have been known to choke on toys and things they just get into and I've even heard they can choke on kibble too. There are no guarantees in life and to me, the benefits far outweigh the small risks.

The other thing I want to adress is how people are worried they can not balance the diet. I'm just wondering how these people balance their own diets. I think humans require alot more "balancing" than dogs do because we are omnivores. It's almost like saying I'm afraid I won't balance my diet properly so I'll just go to McDonalds everyday. We don't trust others to balance our own diets so why do we think that others can do a better job for our dogs than we do?

Having said that, I do realize that not everyone is meant to be a raw feeder and we all have to make the best choices we can and understand that sometimes in life, there are no perfect answers.

I can tell you the benefits I see though:
Smaller and less infrequent stools and less smelly too. And I mean way smaller.

Cleaner teeth.

Less smelly breath

Healthy coats

And the number one reason is because my dogs love it. I can actually see when I do occasionally use kibble that they are just eating because they have to and they don't eat much but with raw, they look forward to it and you can see how much they enjoy it!

I see all of these things with my dogs that eat cooked food. Plus, no risk with cooked food. And, perfectly balanced by a vet nutritionist. And, no more cracked 4th premolars on raw marrow bones (that cost me over $1500 to remedy!). Oh and best of all -- my dogs love the cooked food so much, especially fresh corn!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I see all of these things with my dogs that eat cooked food. Plus, no risk with cooked food. And, perfectly balanced by a vet nutritionist. And, no more cracked 4th premolars on raw marrow bones (that cost me over $1500 to remedy!). Oh and best of all -- my dogs love the cooked food so much, especially fresh corn!

And, I see the same with my pups who are all on kibble! I say to each his own. What works for one does not always work for another.

[missdemi]

My baby is on the raw diet for a number of reasons. Firstly I found that it was one of the few things she would consistently eat. she is a very finicky eater and I had never seen her eat the way she did when I first introduced her to the raw. I do supplement it with the kibble(free feeding) but she is such a finicky eater that she doesnt eat enough of it to make a difference. In addition she has food allergies and switching to raw GREATLY reduced her symptoms. I did a TON of research and was satisfied with what I heard.

[tjdmom]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I see all of these things with my dogs that eat cooked food. Plus, no risk with cooked food. And, perfectly balanced by a vet nutritionist. And, no more cracked 4th premolars on raw marrow bones (that cost me over $1500 to remedy!). Oh and best of all -- my dogs love the cooked food so much, especially fresh corn!

I feel the need to point out to everyone that raw feeders do not believe in feeding raw marrow bones to dogs of any size. These are typically the large weight bearing bones from cows or deer and yes, are very damaging to dogs teeth particularly if they are big chewers. Raw feeders refer to them as wreck bones and they will damage teeth! My dogs typically eat RAW chicken bones mostly or smaller animals like duck, turkey, rabbit. fish etc but I find that cow or deer and even pork bones are a little too dense for yorkies.
If home cooking works for you, then that's great! There is no way that would work for me as I barely have the time to cook for my human family!

[candigirl]

I agree with tjdmom, with lots of research and the help and guidance from many people including a few amazing YT members i've switched Lexie over to a Prey Model Raw diet. She is thriving, her coat is softer and shinier, her poops, more like what poops? they're so tiny and odorless they're hardly the bother they used to be. I know that in itself is a sign that her body is able to use more nutrients from what she is consuming. With regards to the list of bacteria and parasites someone posted, Lexie is fed high quality meats from markets, farms and butchers not to mention dogs can process out said bacteria without ill effect due to higher acidity in the stomach and a shorter digestive tract. Let me ask you something, is your diet balanced? do you eat your recommended serving of fruit, veg, meat, dairy, grain everyday? i doubt it, the thing about Prey Model raw is its balance over time and if you're feeding a good variety of meat, bones and organs you're fine. With regards to bones tearing up intestines, as long as you're feeding the right bones, soft non weight bearing bones this is not a problem but as with anything there are risks, with kibble there are also risks of choking and many more ill effects.

Lexie is loving her whole, fresh foods. Chicken is just that, beef is just that, no unnecessary fillers and things added in the kibble processing factory that is not needed or species appropriate.

Its been harped on here how a lot of vets don't know much about proper nutrition and push foods like Science diet, and i'm to trust said vets when they say fresh meat is bad for my dog?. Kibble was invented not too long ago, because we are always on the lookout for something more convenient, and whats more convenient than overcooked, extruded, carb-and-meat paste with the vitamins literally sprayed on.

I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind on what they should feed, and if you feed kibble and your dog is happy then that's great. What i do know now is i have never been more confident in the way i'm feeding Lexie. If anyone is interested in feeding raw please do your OWN research and don't be intimidated by those who for their own personal circumstances don't approve.

[ladyjane]

And, for those of you who feed Science Diet and other commercial dog foods, the same goes.

Do not be intimidated by those who say that raw is better. I live with some very healthy and quite lovely pups (great coats...poops normal) and they eat kibble. Everyone feels their dog food is better...except those who read forums like this and want to believe everything they read. You really have to be very careful when you start out thinking that it worked for so and so and it will work for me.

Do not accept anyone's word for anything on the internet....research, research research and consult with your vet. That brings up another point: Don't be intimidated by anyone who intimates that vets are stupid and know nothing about nutrition. Remember that the vet you use may one day be needed to save the life of your precious pup! Always good to shop and find a vet you are comfortable with!

This is not a discussion and/or opinion of which way of feeding is best. I refuse to engage in that discussion.

[candigirl]

I'm assuming the above comment was directed to me. I don't think my comment about vets and nutrition was meant to intimidate anyone, i actually don't see how you could draw that conclusion based on what i said. I simply based that statement on things that are often said here regarding what food people's vets push them to purchase. I also didn't say this statement holds true for all vets nor would i refer to them as stupid. Please don't twist my words, thank you

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

And, for those of you who feed Science Diet and other commercial dog foods, the same goes.

Do not be intimidated by those who say that raw is better. I live with some very healthy and quite lovely pups (great coats...poops normal) and they eat kibble. Everyone feels their dog food is better...except those who read forums like this and want to believe everything they read. You really have to be very careful when you start out thinking that it worked for so and so and it will work for me.

Do not accept anyone's word for anything on the internet....research, research research and consult with your vet. That brings up another point: Don't be intimidated by anyone who intimates that vets are stupid and know nothing about nutrition. Remember that the vet you use may one day be needed to save the life of your precious pup! Always good to shop and find a vet you are comfortable with!

This is not a discussion and/or opinion of which way of feeding is best. I refuse to engage in that discussion.

I don't think anyone is trying to 'intimidate' anyone in this discussion . People are just sharing their experiences with different diets. Some share their experiences/knowledge about Prey Model (tjdmom, candigirl etc), some share their experiences/knowledge about pre-made raw (me etc), some w/ kibble (you etc), some w/ homecooked (Ellie May etc). Some with chew bones etcetera. Tjdmom has always been super helpful here w/ Prey .

I agree that this is not a discussion about which way of feeding is best; I don't think anyone is trying to say this .

As for nutrition knowledge of vets...unfortunately, they only receive about 1.5 hours of didactic teaching about nutrition in Vet school...that's very disappointing (and, so much of what they learn about nutrition is sponsored by Hill's). Good vets should be comfortable in knowing their own limitations about nutrition. I would trust their knowledge about nutrition more if their knowledge about it was more broad, of better quality, and covered methods other than just kibble.

Your dogs do wonderfully on kibble, and that's awesome. Bc also, if you fed pre-made or Prey - you'd put YHR out of business .

[ladyjane]

Yes, I was responding to you....and I don't feel I twisted anything. I merely responded...you made the comment that people might be intimidated by other's opinions of a raw diet and my comment is that by the same token they might be intimidated by the comments some people make about Science Diet and other commercial foods that are recommended by vets and vet nutritionists.

That's all.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't think anyone is trying to 'intimidate' anyone in this discussion . People are just sharing their experiences with different diets. Some share their experiences/knowledge about Prey Model (tjdmom, candigirl etc), some share their experiences/knowledge about pre-made raw (me etc), some w/ kibble (you etc), some w/ homecooked (Ellie May etc). Some with chew bones etcetera. Tjdmom has always been super helpful here w/ Prey .

I agree that this is not a discussion about which way of feeding is best; I don't think anyone is trying to say this .

As for nutrition knowledge of vets...unfortunately, they only receive about 1.5 hours of didactic teaching about nutrition in Vet school...that's very disappointing (and, so much of what they learn about nutrition is sponsored by Hill's). Good vets should be comfortable in knowing their own limitations about nutrition. I would trust their knowledge about nutrition more if their knowledge about it was more broad, of better quality, and covered methods other than just kibble.

Your dogs do wonderfully on kibble, and that's awesome. Bc also, if you fed pre-made or Prey - you'd put YHR out of business .

As I stated in the above post, I did not say anyone here was trying to intimidate. I was responding to the comment that people should not be intimidated.

How would I put YHR out of business? Not sure I understand. YHR is not a business per se...and is not even purchasing dog foods. I am. I pay for all of my own and my foster pups foods. I will spend anything necessary for my pups. I pay for their food and their grooming. Me..no one else. I am only reimbursed for vet expenses. Correction: They do reimburse for prescription diets. I have consulted with vet nutritionists in the past for my own pups when ill, and would do that if necessary for a foster.

I am not trying to say that anyone is wrong...I am just weary of the bashing that vets get about nutrition. Rebecca Remillard recommends commercial food and I hardly think that she is lacking in education and/or knowledge about pet nutrition. BUT...I am honestly not trying to get into a discussion about the different foods. Just saying that the rational about vets not having enough education about dog nutrition, IMHO, has been overused by some. Just my thoughts. We all have our own on this topic.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't think anyone is trying to 'intimidate' anyone in this discussion . People are just sharing their experiences with different diets. Some share their experiences/knowledge about Prey Model (tjdmom, candigirl etc), some share their experiences/knowledge about pre-made raw (me etc), some w/ kibble (you etc), some w/ homecooked (Ellie May etc). Some with chew bones etcetera. Tjdmom has always been super helpful here w/ Prey .

I agree that this is not a discussion about which way of feeding is best; I don't think anyone is trying to say this .

As for nutrition knowledge of vets...unfortunately, they only receive about 1.5 hours of didactic teaching about nutrition in Vet school...that's very disappointing (and, so much of what they learn about nutrition is sponsored by Hill's). Good vets should be comfortable in knowing their own limitations about nutrition. I would trust their knowledge about nutrition more if their knowledge about it was more broad, of better quality, and covered methods other than just kibble.

Your dogs do wonderfully on kibble, and that's awesome. Bc also, if you fed pre-made or Prey - you'd put YHR out of business .

That's why some of us defer to board certified veterinary nutritionists who indeed have more training and such. I trust a vet who knows when to refer me to a vet nutritionist for nutritionist advice.

I have to also comment that I concur with LadyJane's read on this -- it appears the raw feeders are always acting like their diets are superior, that their dogs look better, have smaller stools, process nutrients better, have better coats, etc. I have beautiful dogs with beautiful coats and beautiful clean teeth and fresh breath. So do many of our members who feed something other than raw.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't think anyone is trying to 'intimidate' anyone in this discussion . People are just sharing their experiences with different diets. Some share their experiences/knowledge about Prey Model (tjdmom, candigirl etc), some share their experiences/knowledge about pre-made raw (me etc), some w/ kibble (you etc), some w/ homecooked (Ellie May etc). Some with chew bones etcetera. Tjdmom has always been super helpful here w/ Prey .

I agree that this is not a discussion about which way of feeding is best; I don't think anyone is trying to say this .

As for nutrition knowledge of vets...unfortunately, they only receive about 1.5 hours of didactic teaching about nutrition in Vet school...that's very disappointing (and, so much of what they learn about nutrition is sponsored by Hill's). Good vets should be comfortable in knowing their own limitations about nutrition. I would trust their knowledge about nutrition more if their knowledge about it was more broad, of better quality, and covered methods other than just kibble.

Your dogs do wonderfully on kibble, and that's awesome. Bc also, if you fed pre-made or Prey - you'd put YHR out of business .

Actually, my vet did send me to a vet nutrionist when needed. She is very comfortable referring out as needed and I don't understand why anyone would go to a vet who was not. That is easily figured out if you are tuned in to a vet.

[candigirl]

LadyJane, you used the word "intimidate" quite a lot, and used it in referring to me intimidating people about vets and nutrition, claiming i called them stupid etc. To me that is twisting my words but i digress. I addressed the post regarding all the hazards listed that obviously could deter someone from even wanting to look into what raw is all about.

The things i listed in regards to the improvements i have seen in Lexie is my own personal experiences with feeding her this way. If kibble feeders feel it comes off as feeling as though i'm superior then that's their own feelings not mine. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i should be able to talk about positive changes in my dogs without others taking offense to it.

It seems kibble and raw feeders will never really see eye to eye on the issue of nutrition and that's fine, if you're confident with what you're feeding then let that be it, in the end we're all just doing what we feel is best for our pups