Premium food to prevent crystals in urine? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

CouversMom · 10-26-2010, 03:07 PM

This morning I had to take Khloe into the vet because I thought she had a uti. She had been squatting, licking her genitals and when she did urinate, it was only small drops. The vet just called me to let me know she had a lot of crystals in her urine and would have to be on a urinary diet for the rest of her life to prevent infection. He recommended Royal Canin Urinary Diet.

I know this is not a quality food, and it makes me really nervous to switch her from the Blue Wilderness/Innova I have been feeding her.

My question: are there any premium foods out there that I can feed her instead of Royal Canin? I want her to be eating a quality food, but I also dont want her to be in pain anymore

I feel so uneducated about this and don't want to make any hasty decisions about her food before I get a chance to go home and do some research

Can anyone help me?

Ellie May · 10-26-2010, 04:50 PM

What kind of Blue Wilderness???

Generally urinary issues (crystals/stones) do require an rx diet, but sometimes other things can be tried. What type of crystals are they? If the vet is worried about struvite stones, then the urine is alkaline. Acidifying the urine (some foods have more acidifiers than others) may do a good enough job. Something to talk to the vet about. Were xrays done?

CouversMom · 10-26-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

What kind of Blue Wilderness???

Generally urinary issues (crystals/stones) do require an rx diet, but sometimes other things can be tried. What type of crystals are they? If the vet is worried about struvite stones, then the urine is alkaline. Acidifying the urine (some foods have more acidifiers than others) may do a good enough job. Something to talk to the vet about. Were xrays done?

Blue Wilderness Duck... not a type that was recalled.

I don't know what type of crystals. I am very uniformed on this, and hope to research some more so I feel more comfortable with it. They did a urinalysis and found crystals in her urine. He said she has a bladder infection and he does not know which came first- the crystals or the bladder infection.

I have decided to continue her diet to see if the antibiotic fixes the problem. If so, it was the bladder infection and will be fine. I am really hoping she doesn't have to be on a rx food for the rest of her life.

I have also read that home cooking can help with these crystals. This will be my next option before I feed RC crap

107barney · 10-26-2010, 07:56 PM

Michelle
The analysis really depends on the type of crystals. RC urinary can be prescribed for various types so you have to find out what kind of crystals.

Teddy had struvite crystals a few months ago and I felt the same way about the Hill's S/D diet prescribed. I ended up doing a consult with the Board Certified Vet nutritionist who was not in favor of using the S/D diet for yorkies (because of high incidence of pancreatitis) and we opted to use a medication called Uro-eze instead. It worked very well to acidify the bladder environment so that crystals could not form and those that were there would dissolve. It worked to eliminate the crystals as well as a small stone that formed due to mistreatment of the urinary tract infection by my former vet's office. The uro-eze can only be used for struvite crystals and wont work on other type of crystals or stones.

Home cooking can help if they are oxalate crystals - they will not dissolve existing stones or crystals but can help prevent them. Oxalate is mostly found in vegetables so meat/rice diets are often used in conjunction with low oxalate vegetables. I use the veterinary nutritionist in Boston, she does phone consults if you want to go this route. She sees many sick yorkies in her practice and has no stake in the supplement market so won't try to sell you a bunch of hocus pocus that you don't need.

CouversMom · 10-26-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 107barney

Michelle
The analysis really depends on the type of crystals. RC urinary can be prescribed for various types so you have to find out what kind of crystals.

Teddy had struvite crystals a few months ago and I felt the same way about the Hill's S/D diet prescribed. I ended up doing a consult with the Board Certified Vet nutritionist who was not in favor of using the S/D diet for yorkies (because of high incidence of pancreatitis) and we opted to use a medication called Uro-eze instead. It worked very well to acidify the bladder environment so that crystals could not form and those that were there would dissolve. It worked to eliminate the crystals as well as a small stone that formed due to mistreatment of the urinary tract infection by my former vet's office. The uro-eze can only be used for struvite crystals and wont work on other type of crystals or stones.

Home cooking can help if they are oxalate crystals - they will not dissolve existing stones or crystals but can help prevent them. Oxalate is mostly found in vegetables so meat/rice diets are often used in conjunction with low oxalate vegetables. I use the veterinary nutritionist in Boston, she does phone consults if you want to go this route. She sees many sick yorkies in her practice and has no stake in the supplement market so won't try to sell you a bunch of hocus pocus that you don't need.

Thank you so much Cathy... I will have to call my vet tomorrow to find out what type of crystals they found. I really hope we can treat them without changing her food.

ladyjane · 10-26-2010, 08:46 PM

I have a foster who is on Royal Canin Urinary SO and he is doing really well. He has had two operations in the past for bladder stones and so far, knock wood, he is doing great!

Of course, you can always go with home cooking. I did that for my Cody who had renal and pancreatic problems. I used the vet nutritionist at Texas A&M. Cathy also has mentioned a good one!

Lots of people tout diets that may be good for some dogs....but dogs with specific problems need special diets. There is a lot of research put into making these foods by these companies....and I know lots of people say the ingredients are bad, but I have been using prescription foods off and on for different pups for many, many years without any ill effects.

YorkieZoo · 10-27-2010, 02:33 AM

We have a male yorkie that was raised on "yucky" dog food all his life....he developed stones....we went to the vet who put him on the same Royal Canin food. A year later, we had to have bladder stone removal.

I contacted Blue and Innova and inquired with them. While they stated that their food is great (which I believe it is) they did recommend following the veterinarians recommendation as none of their foods are formulated to treat specific conditions.

Later our little guy developed diabetes, so now he is on Science Diet W/D and insulin shots twice a day.

He's been on it a year now and we had xrays at 6 months and again here in another month to be certain that he is not redeveloping the stones.

I'd stick with the vet's recommendation although, like you, I am not a big fan of Royal Canin or Science Diet.

ladyjane · 10-27-2010, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieZoo

We have a male yorkie that was raised on "yucky" dog food all his life....he developed stones....we went to the vet who put him on the same Royal Canin food. A year later, we had to have bladder stone removal.

I contacted Blue and Innova and inquired with them. While they stated that their food is great (which I believe it is) they did recommend following the veterinarians recommendation as none of their foods are formulated to treat specific conditions.

Later our little guy developed diabetes, so now he is on Science Diet W/D and insulin shots twice a day.

He's been on it a year now and we had xrays at 6 months and again here in another month to be certain that he is not redeveloping the stones.

I'd stick with the vet's recommendation although, like you, I am not a big fan of Royal Canin or Science Diet.

So, when he initially was diagnosed with stones, there was no surgery? There is no food that will make stones go away. If there was no surgery, I would be hard pressed to blame Royal Canin for surgery a year later. Sounds to me as if the stones were there all along.

Ellie May · 10-27-2010, 05:18 AM

Struvites (smaller ones partcularly) can dissolve with certain supplements (or food).

What is the cause of the struvites in this case? Does she keep she infections? Sometimes you can get away with acidifying the urine without using a special diet. I wouldn't say not to use the food. I think it can be pretty important with bladder issues. But there probably is a way around it. I'd contact a board certified veterinary nutritionist and talk about ways to keep her on a food that you like while fixing the problem.

YorkieZoo · 10-27-2010, 02:11 PM

Oh sorry, I wasn't trying to indicate that the Royal Canin caused the stones. We had him on regular commercial dog food all his life (before we knew better) and then he developed crystals.

The vet was hoping that the Urinary USO would help to prevent the formation of the stones....unfortunately it didn't in his case.

It was nearly a year later when he began urinating with bright red blood in it, that's when we discovered the stones.

Of course our little guy never makes anything easy, his stones were the calcium oxalate (lab check after the surgery).

Six months later, when we had xrays to check on the reformation of the stones, he was diagnosed with diabetes! Unfortunately, the food he was on for the stones, was not the best for the diabetes.

He's such a stinker! Now he is on the Science Diet W/D, strict food schedule with his insulin shots, and gets VERY cranky when he doesn't get the same type of treat as the others!

ladyjane · 10-27-2010, 03:51 PM

He is lucky to have such a loving home! You clearly are taking excellent care of him.

TresCutePiggies · 10-27-2010, 04:26 PM

Do you know if they are struvite crystals?

I just had a very similar problem with Rory. They found struvite crystals in her urine and also found that her urine was very concentrated and she had a pH of 8, and the vet wanted me to switch to a prescription food, which wasn't my first choice either.

I asked if I could try supplements instead, and the vet was comfortable with that. We added in Vitamin C and Cranimals (cranberry supplement) for a month. She also sent me home with Baytril just in case there was UTI, though her urinanalysis showed no infection. Also, I needed to get her to drink more water to help with her urine concentration level and since she primarly eats a raw diet (which doesn't mix well with water), I was going to add chicken broth (which unfortunately I could not find anywhere without onions or onion powder in it), so we ended up going with sea salt in an effort to get her to drink more. At her recheck, her crystals were gone, her urine concentration was better, and her pH was where they wanted it to be with a sample I took from home and also one they took in the office.

If it is only the struvite crystals, maybe you could discuss with your vet the possiblity of trying supplements for a little while and then retesting. I know the other type of crystals can require prescription food. And no matter the type of crystals, you definitely don't want to let stones form which can require surgery and be very painful for the dog.

I hope you and your vet can come up with a plan you are comfortable with for Khloe. Good luck!

maggiecc · 12-10-2010, 11:09 AM

Winnie just got diagnosed with struvite crystals. the vet said there was no sign of infection so it must be the food she is on.

she currently gets wellness small breed mixed with taste of the wild. Does anyone know if either of those foods would have caused this?

does dehydrations cause crystals?

If i put just taste of the wild in her bowl and the crystals go away, that will mean it's the wellness BUT my question is, will they go away or do i have to use the RX food first before i do my trial?

what about treats? she loves her treats?

i'm sad.

princessizzy · 12-10-2010, 04:55 PM

Im just wondering is high amount of Magnisium in dog food has anything to do with developing the crystals. I know that it can cause cats to have bladder crystals but I was not sure if that what causes it in dog also..

eaglez28 · 12-31-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessizzy

Im just wondering is high amount of Magnisium in dog food has anything to do with developing the crystals. I know that it can cause cats to have bladder crystals but I was not sure if that what causes it in dog also..

Bladder Infections, High Phosphorus & Calcium in Food.

10-26-2010, 03:07 PM	#1
CouversMom and Khloe Mae's too! Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 14,732	Premium food to prevent crystals in urine? This morning I had to take Khloe into the vet because I thought she had a uti. She had been squatting, licking her genitals and when she did urinate, it was only small drops. The vet just called me to let me know she had a lot of crystals in her urine and would have to be on a urinary diet for the rest of her life to prevent infection. He recommended Royal Canin Urinary Diet. I know this is not a quality food, and it makes me really nervous to switch her from the Blue Wilderness/Innova I have been feeding her. My question: are there any premium foods out there that I can feed her instead of Royal Canin? I want her to be eating a quality food, but I also dont want her to be in pain anymore I feel so uneducated about this and don't want to make any hasty decisions about her food before I get a chance to go home and do some research Can anyone help me? __________________ Michelle- mommy to Couver and Khloe Mae! http://yorkiehavenrescue.com/ Last edited by CouversMom; 10-26-2010 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Spelling error

10-26-2010, 04:50 PM	#2
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	What kind of Blue Wilderness??? Generally urinary issues (crystals/stones) do require an rx diet, but sometimes other things can be tried. What type of crystals are they? If the vet is worried about struvite stones, then the urine is alkaline. Acidifying the urine (some foods have more acidifiers than others) may do a good enough job. Something to talk to the vet about. Were xrays done? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

10-26-2010, 07:56 PM	#4
107barney T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England Posts: 9,816	Michelle The analysis really depends on the type of crystals. RC urinary can be prescribed for various types so you have to find out what kind of crystals. Teddy had struvite crystals a few months ago and I felt the same way about the Hill's S/D diet prescribed. I ended up doing a consult with the Board Certified Vet nutritionist who was not in favor of using the S/D diet for yorkies (because of high incidence of pancreatitis) and we opted to use a medication called Uro-eze instead. It worked very well to acidify the bladder environment so that crystals could not form and those that were there would dissolve. It worked to eliminate the crystals as well as a small stone that formed due to mistreatment of the urinary tract infection by my former vet's office. The uro-eze can only be used for struvite crystals and wont work on other type of crystals or stones. Home cooking can help if they are oxalate crystals - they will not dissolve existing stones or crystals but can help prevent them. Oxalate is mostly found in vegetables so meat/rice diets are often used in conjunction with low oxalate vegetables. I use the veterinary nutritionist in Boston, she does phone consults if you want to go this route. She sees many sick yorkies in her practice and has no stake in the supplement market so won't try to sell you a bunch of hocus pocus that you don't need. __________________ T. Bumpkins & Co. Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy

10-26-2010, 08:46 PM	#6
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,451	I have a foster who is on Royal Canin Urinary SO and he is doing really well. He has had two operations in the past for bladder stones and so far, knock wood, he is doing great! Of course, you can always go with home cooking. I did that for my Cody who had renal and pancreatic problems. I used the vet nutritionist at Texas A&M. Cathy also has mentioned a good one! Lots of people tout diets that may be good for some dogs....but dogs with specific problems need special diets. There is a lot of research put into making these foods by these companies....and I know lots of people say the ingredients are bad, but I have been using prescription foods off and on for different pups for many, many years without any ill effects. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

10-27-2010, 05:18 AM	#9
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Struvites (smaller ones partcularly) can dissolve with certain supplements (or food). What is the cause of the struvites in this case? Does she keep she infections? Sometimes you can get away with acidifying the urine without using a special diet. I wouldn't say not to use the food. I think it can be pretty important with bladder issues. But there probably is a way around it. I'd contact a board certified veterinary nutritionist and talk about ways to keep her on a food that you like while fixing the problem. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

10-27-2010, 02:33 AM	#7
YorkieZoo Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westfield, Indiana, USA Posts: 461	We have a male yorkie that was raised on "yucky" dog food all his life....he developed stones....we went to the vet who put him on the same Royal Canin food. A year later, we had to have bladder stone removal. I contacted Blue and Innova and inquired with them. While they stated that their food is great (which I believe it is) they did recommend following the veterinarians recommendation as none of their foods are formulated to treat specific conditions. Later our little guy developed diabetes, so now he is on Science Diet W/D and insulin shots twice a day. He's been on it a year now and we had xrays at 6 months and again here in another month to be certain that he is not redeveloping the stones. I'd stick with the vet's recommendation although, like you, I am not a big fan of Royal Canin or Science Diet.

10-27-2010, 02:11 PM	#10
YorkieZoo Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westfield, Indiana, USA Posts: 461	Oh sorry, I wasn't trying to indicate that the Royal Canin caused the stones. We had him on regular commercial dog food all his life (before we knew better) and then he developed crystals. The vet was hoping that the Urinary USO would help to prevent the formation of the stones....unfortunately it didn't in his case. It was nearly a year later when he began urinating with bright red blood in it, that's when we discovered the stones. Of course our little guy never makes anything easy, his stones were the calcium oxalate (lab check after the surgery). Six months later, when we had xrays to check on the reformation of the stones, he was diagnosed with diabetes! Unfortunately, the food he was on for the stones, was not the best for the diabetes. He's such a stinker! Now he is on the Science Diet W/D, strict food schedule with his insulin shots, and gets VERY cranky when he doesn't get the same type of treat as the others!

10-27-2010, 03:51 PM	#11
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,451	He is lucky to have such a loving home! You clearly are taking excellent care of him. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

10-27-2010, 04:26 PM	#12
TresCutePiggies Owned by Rory & Lane Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,893	Do you know if they are struvite crystals? I just had a very similar problem with Rory. They found struvite crystals in her urine and also found that her urine was very concentrated and she had a pH of 8, and the vet wanted me to switch to a prescription food, which wasn't my first choice either. I asked if I could try supplements instead, and the vet was comfortable with that. We added in Vitamin C and Cranimals (cranberry supplement) for a month. She also sent me home with Baytril just in case there was UTI, though her urinanalysis showed no infection. Also, I needed to get her to drink more water to help with her urine concentration level and since she primarly eats a raw diet (which doesn't mix well with water), I was going to add chicken broth (which unfortunately I could not find anywhere without onions or onion powder in it), so we ended up going with sea salt in an effort to get her to drink more. At her recheck, her crystals were gone, her urine concentration was better, and her pH was where they wanted it to be with a sample I took from home and also one they took in the office. If it is only the struvite crystals, maybe you could discuss with your vet the possiblity of trying supplements for a little while and then retesting. I know the other type of crystals can require prescription food. And no matter the type of crystals, you definitely don't want to let stones form which can require surgery and be very painful for the dog. I hope you and your vet can come up with a plan you are comfortable with for Khloe. Good luck! __________________ Rory and Lane now have a dog blog, Doggie Debutantes. Find us on Facebook here. Last edited by TresCutePiggies; 10-27-2010 at 04:27 PM.

12-10-2010, 11:09 AM	#13
maggiecc Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Posts: 84	Winnie just got diagnosed with struvite crystals. the vet said there was no sign of infection so it must be the food she is on. she currently gets wellness small breed mixed with taste of the wild. Does anyone know if either of those foods would have caused this? does dehydrations cause crystals? If i put just taste of the wild in her bowl and the crystals go away, that will mean it's the wellness BUT my question is, will they go away or do i have to use the RX food first before i do my trial? what about treats? she loves her treats? i'm sad.

12-10-2010, 04:55 PM	#14
princessizzy Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 799 Blog Entries: 4	Im just wondering is high amount of Magnisium in dog food has anything to do with developing the crystals. I know that it can cause cats to have bladder crystals but I was not sure if that what causes it in dog also.. __________________ My Sweet Little Izzy Yup, She's stolen my heart!!