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06-14-2010, 08:05 AM | #1 |
YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 384
| protein question, how much is to much Just wondering what percentage of protein is to much for a Yorkie ? When is the amount of protein a problem? Does it only matter if your Yorkie has a medical condition, or should it be a lower percentage for all Yorkies? I'm just trying to understand what role protein plays in the health of a Yorkie. I want to change foods to a grain free brand and don't understand if I need a lower protein food or not. Pistol has no medical issues so I don't know if percentage of protein matters. Thanks for reading this post. |
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06-14-2010, 09:37 AM | #2 |
I ♥ Armani & Chloe Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,895
| There is a lot of debate on this topic and I am sure you will get a variety of answers. My personal opinion is with the prevalence of liver disease in Yorkies, no yorkie should be placed on a high protein diet without first having a bile acid test done with normal results. I highly suggest all yorkie owners do a bile acid test anyway, but it becomes even more important when you are considering placing your dog on a high protein food. If the results are normal, then doing a grain free/ high protein food shouldnt be a problem.
__________________ Armani & Chloe |
06-14-2010, 09:44 AM | #3 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| There is no one right %. Some think high protein can cause kidney and liver problems, so they won't do it at all. Some think it is fine as long as the dog doesn't have kidney or liver problems currently. I like low to moderate protein. That's what I'm comfortable with. That said, I've never seen proof that high protein causes disease.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
06-14-2010, 10:15 AM | #4 | |
Donating YT 500 Club Member | Quote:
__________________ Proud member of the CrAzYcLuB Donna......owned by Bridget and Greta (and wouldn't have it any other way!) | |
06-14-2010, 01:18 PM | #5 |
Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland
Posts: 17,814
| I personally prefer to feed a grain-free food, because domestic dogs are taxonomically the same species, and physiologically and anatomically the same and actually share 99.8% of the same DNA as wolves. Size and appearance are in the less than 2% differences. Therefore, I think they highly benefit from a higher protein, more meat filled food. But I think it depends on your dog, what they can tolerate, and how much activity they get every day. Jackson's a pretty active dog and gets a 35% protein food, with around 16% fat (Acana) and it works really well for him. He's been on grain-free since 6 months old and done soooo wonderfully on it. Many people feed their dogs raw food now as well and get amazing benefits. Anyways, it's just my personal preference to feed grain free, low card, meat protein rich foods. Ultimately, though, I think it's what works best for you and your dog. I've done alot of research and have finally settled that this works best for Jackson! http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html here's a good link
__________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier Last edited by Britster; 06-14-2010 at 01:21 PM. |
06-14-2010, 04:42 PM | #6 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Michigan
Posts: 747
| Quote:
I agree. I started feeding Sasha grain-free food when she was just over a year old. That was when I really started doing my research and learning about dog food. Britster practically took all the words right out of my mouth! | |
06-14-2010, 06:38 PM | #7 |
Ringo (1) and Lucy too! Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: On the Edge of Glory
Posts: 3,447
| I think Britster is right. Basically, the RIGHT food is one that works for you and your dog. You can tell when your dog is thriving; happy; energetic; and with a great coat; eating well but not too much . . . I would consider 27 to 25% fairly middle of the ground. Anything under 20% I consider fairly low protein. I feed my Westie high protein and low carb because that is what works best for him and his allergies. I feed Lucy lower protein and higher carb because she does have liver issues. If you have concerns; have her liver enzymes checked before going to a real high protein food. Yes, you are going to get a variety of answers on this! |
06-14-2010, 08:48 PM | #8 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newport
Posts: 140
| Below are just some interesting dog "high" protein studies that show "high" protein levels cause no adverse effects for dogs with certain pre-existing conditions as believed by some. In contrast some studies show that dogs with certain pre-existing conditions do better on higher protein diets than lower ones, and in fact hat too little protein causes harm in many cases. There is also a study that shows higher protein diets (along with other factors) actually work better for weight loss in dog. For whatever it's worth..below are links to the studies. Personally I believe it's not really the protein % that one is to worry about but the quality of ingredients where the protein comes from. With a that being said there is also no "studies" that show high protein diets cause kidney disease (as believed by some), or studies that show feeding a low protein diet slows the progression of kidney disease or prolong life (reducing phosphorus does both, however)! One study showed that dogs aged 7 to 8 years with just one kidney who were fed a diet with 34% protein or four years suffered no adverse effects, and the mortality rate was lower than for dogs fed 18% protein (Effects of aging and dietary protein intake on uni... [Am J Vet Res. 1994] - PubMed result). Most dogs with liver disease do not need a reduced protein diet, and too little protein is harmful to the liver (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/128/12/2733S.pdf). Most dogs prone to forming bladder stones of various types do not need a low protein diet, and those who are fed ultra-low-protein diets such as Hill's Prescription u/d for extended periods are prone to developing dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). High protein diets do not lead to hip dysplasia or other orthopedic problems in puppies (it is too much calcium and too many calories that are the culprits, not protein). (Growth-calcium-energy, Eukanuba premium pet food, ADVANCE Pet Foods) A study published by Dr. Dodman in 1996 "concluded that a reduction in dietary protein is not generally useful in the treatment of behavior problems, with the possible exception of those with territorial aggression that is the result of fear." (Summary of Tufts University study on the effect of dietary protein on dog behavior). The conclusions of the 2000 study were, "For dogs with dominance aggression, the addition of tryptophan to high protein diets or change to a low protein diet may reduce aggression. For dogs with territorial aggression, tryptophan supplementation of a low protein diet may be helpful in reducing aggression." (AVMA - Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association - 217(4):504 - Abstract). Veterinary behaviorist Dr. William Campbell, author of Behavior Problems in Dogs, believes that it is carbohydrates that are linked to aggression and other behavioral problems, and recommends higher protein diets for most dogs. See his "Case of the Month" archives at BehavioRx: Pet Behavior Resources Case of the Month for more info (especially April 1999, February, June, August and December 2000, February 2001, November 2001, February 2003). Recent studies have shown that high-protein low-carb, moderate-fat diets work better for weight loss in both dogs and cats than the traditional high-carb, low-fat diets (High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs -- Bierer and Bui 134 (8): 2087S -- Journal of Nutrition). One study done on English Pointers aged 7 to 9 years showed that those dogs fed a diet with 45% protein for several years maintained a directionally higher percent of lean body mass and lower percent of body fat compared to dogs fed a diet with 15% protein (http://web.archive.org/web/200703300...ionProtein.pdf). "The very early research that pointed a finger at protein as being a cause of kidney failure in dogs wasn't even done on dogs. It was done on rats fed unnatural diets for a rodent... diets high in protein. Rats have difficulty excreting excess protein in their diets because they are essentially plant eaters, not meat eaters. Dogs are quite able to tolerate diets with protein levels higher than 30% on a dry weight basis. Dogs are meat eaters; that's how Nature made them! Rats are not. So some of the early research on rats was assumed to be true for dogs... and the myth of "too much protein in a dog's diet causes kidney damage" was started. And just like any seemingly valid rumor or assertion, it derived a life of its own and is only recently being accepted as untrue. " "Here is just one of many references that recently have appeared asserting the lack of data indicating that reducing the protein level in a food helps to protect the kidneys... Kirk's Veterinary Therapy XIII, Small Animal Practice, page 861, written by Finco, Brown, Barsanti and Bartges "...restriction of protein intake does not alter the development of renal lesions nor does it preserve renal function. Considering these (research) findings, the authors do not recommend reduction of dietary protein in dogs with renal disease or reduced renal function in order to achieve renoprotective effects." They do recommend, though, that once a Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) level reaches 75, which is very elevated, that some restriction of protein intake be considered for beneficial effects unrelated to kidney function dynamics. These authors point out that Phosphorus blood levels can play a major role in the health status of dogs with compromised kidney function."
__________________ ~Melissa~ & ~Zoey~ |
06-14-2010, 08:49 PM | #9 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newport
Posts: 140
| ......
__________________ ~Melissa~ & ~Zoey~ Last edited by Melcakes; 06-14-2010 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Duplicate |
06-15-2010, 05:32 AM | #10 | |
Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland
Posts: 17,814
| Quote:
I'm gonna save this info for future reference.
__________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier | |
06-15-2010, 06:38 AM | #11 | |
Donating YT 500 Club Member | Quote:
__________________ Proud member of the CrAzYcLuB Donna......owned by Bridget and Greta (and wouldn't have it any other way!) | |
06-15-2010, 06:46 PM | #12 |
YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 384
| Thank you everyone for your answers. This did help clear up my confusion. I to am saving the above links for future reference. I appreciate the help. |
06-16-2010, 06:34 AM | #13 | |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 25,041
| Quote:
In dog foods, what are the primary sources of phosphorus? Which ingredients should we avoid? | |
06-16-2010, 07:14 AM | #14 | |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 25,041
| Quote:
"The main food sources are the protein food groups of meat and milk. A meal plan that provides adequate amounts of calcium and protein also provides an adequate amount of phosphorus."It doesn't sound like high levels of phosphorus cause kidney disease, rather the other way around. More importantly, how can phosphorus levels be reduced in a high protein diet if meat is the primary source of phosphorus? This stuff hurts my head. I wish my boys could live on pizza, pasta, and ice cream like I do. | |
06-16-2010, 07:25 AM | #15 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Calcium and phosphorus are in a certain proportion in dog food (usually about 1.2:1). If they aren't balanced correctly with each other, serious medical problems can results. More meat means more phosphorus. If the food is AAFCO approved, they are balanced. If you want to feed less phosphorus for whatever reason, then I guess it would need to be a food lower in meat content.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
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