Allergies (Atopica vs. Temaril-P)

[HannaBananasMom]

Hello Everyone-
I am new to yorkietalk and unfortunately my first posting is about "allergies." I have a 3-yr. old yorkie/poodle mix and she is my life, of course. My little baby has had severe skin problems since she was a puppy. Her constant scratching and chewing is unbearable to watch. There was a period of time when she was so bald from chewing her own hair out that people on the street would ask if she was a chinese crested Other times her chewing was so intense that she got skin infections and would bleed and not want to come out from under the bed. It's just heartbreaking. We tried the initial diet restrictions, benadryl then prednisone then Atopica. In addition I tried putting a soft nylon cone on her for a while but even that she managed to rub around enough to cut her neck. Then her grammy made special clothes for her that covered her entire body and legs so that she couldn't chew at the skin and cause infection. I didn't want to keep her clothed but it seemed the only way to safely protect her from herself. Then our most recent vet- who suggested Hanna's was the worse allergy case she'd ever seen- explained the cons of clothes; they were keeping the moisture in (greasy irritated skin=moisture) creating a breeding ground for bacteria and yeast infection. I had suspected that she had a yeast infection of the skin because she had smelly greasy skin (or worse-candida, from years of various medications). So she was given ketoconazole as an anti-fungal and it cleared her right up initially, but didn't stop the itching so we kept her on low doses of the temaril. (Note: I had previously tried taking her off all meds for 6 months and tried out the "Nzymes yeast kit that I bought online, with no luck. She just got worse and worse)

We have been to many vets (6) including a dermatology specialist at angell memorial hospital (in Boston). I have also brought her to an acupuncturist and holistic vet. We have focused on her restricted diet for years now, removing all grains and well-everything else too. She’s just very sensitive in general; she had a terrible reaction to vaccines once and I don’t know which one- although I presume it was the rabies- it was my fault because the vet gave her all the vaccines at once and I should have know better. Now I do. She has been eating only rabbit for over a year. I give her probiotics (natural/dervied from plants and not containing any other ingredients such as dairy) and I bathe her 2x a week using Zymox Enzymatic Medicated Shampoo which I will say is the best in comparison to every other one I've tried including the expensive DUOXO calming line of products, and the oatmeal shampoos we've tried. I groom her myself and I use only fragrance free detergent on everything and wash her bed regularly and try to be as clean as possible with regards to dust mites and other potential allergens (like keeping windows closed during pollen season etc.).

She has not been tested for environmental allergies, as the only solution I was given to this problem if the tests came back positive- is immunotherapy and I'm not crazy about the idea from what I know of it. So I have just tried to manage the environmental allergies as much as possible, using a hepa ait purifier, plain water rinsing between baths, brushing, etc. When looking at a history of her medicals, oddly enough winters are always her worst times, I think because of the dry forced hot air heat. So now that it's spring, Hanna is looking great and has a ton of hair all grown back in! She has been on a low dose, every other day (1/2 pill) of Temaril (1/2 prednisone & 1/2 antihistamine) for about 6 months now following the ketoconazole treatment to rid the yeast infection. Without actually knowing what she is sensitive/allergic to be it foods or environmental (likely both) I am tempted to stick with what works, and right now rabbit food, temaril and bathing, etc. are keeping her practially itch free. She has gained some healthy weight (went form 9.5 - 13.5 lbs.) being on the temaril which is normal and manageble with exercise. And of course I have to have her organs checked/blood tests done every six months while being on these meds.
Now, the vet wants to segueway her back to Atopica instead of the Temaril. About 1+ years ago she was on the Atopica regularly, and it worked ok- not a miracle though.

My question is- if Temaril works and it's SO MUCH EASIER to administer and cheaper, is it not just as safe to keep her on the Temaril vs. the Atopica longterm? I was having to special order the Atopica from the lab in a liquid form with a syringe, and then inject the liquid into her food-but she would be so fussy about eating it and it was $85/month! And then she would usually throw it up anyway.

I'm sorry for the lengthy post and it's probably not all in proper order either, but let's just say we've tried nearly everything with the exception of immunotherapy. I have lately also been wondering too if she should be tested for arthritis because her chewing is now targeted at her leg joints and occurs mostly during rainy weather. Any advice and experiences with allergy sufferers would be very much appreciated by myself and more importantly by Hanna banana.

[dwerten]

WOW your story sounds almost identical to mine sadly

here is some info

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...y-what-do.html

has your dog had a full thyroid panel all 6 as mine has hypothryoid and that is very important to have had done and it can drop alot in one year as my girl went from .78 to .30 in one year and normal for a yorkie would be 1.0 T4FREE but you need the full panel to completely rule out hypothyroidism - it needs to have T4FREE, T4, T3FREE, T3, T4AA, AND T3AA so check all blood work to see if you see this as an add on as hairloss can come from this

atopica is safer to some degree but they are linking to cancer now so it has it's risks but if it works great then safer imo than steroids but my dog vomitted it up after a year of being on it

my dog is on 1/2 temaril p every other day as well and per derm, ims, and vet that is the safest way to do steroid long term use and it is a very low dose. We also have blood work twice a year and she has been on it for 2 years.

Sounds like if you are in an area that has snow a mold allergy in winter so have your home checked for mold as my friends dog just dealt with this and she found mold where her dog was laying. Also when you turn on heater it blows out dust so before using heater get the hypoallergenic air filters for your unit. We use oreck air purifiers in the room she is in and i just bought the ROOMBA from costco yesterday to run daily on our hardwood, tile and laminate floors to get all dust up daily as they can be allergic to dust mites.

The safest thing is hyposensitization shots and that is the one thing i avoided and now sorry i have and reconsidering it as it works 75% of the time and most natural. I have been afraid it would make her worse but who knows i guess worth a shot. I would deal with derm on this and since your dog has been on steroids then you would have to wait 6 weeks or do blood testing which i will do if i do it and use lab VARL, HESKA OR GREER - i would seriously just deal with dermatologist on this as i do and ours is very good.

Allergies are the WORST thing i have dealt with and it started at 6 mos and she is now almost 6 - she is hypothyroid, mvd and atopic dermatitis.

from reading everything sounds like you have done it all like me except i did not see you post the 6 panel thyroid nor the hyposensitization shots. Allergies start at age 6 mos to 3 years. Your goal is to keep them as comfortable as possible but you cannot avoid meds sometimes as to me a short happy life is better than a long miserable one.

hang in there you are not alone it runs in this breed due to poor immune systems and it stinks

[4doggiemama]

I am bumping this for you in hopes that some other members will have some ideas for you. I have a rescue Pommie who is extremely allergic to eggs besides the grains. It has been my experience that I need to go with my gut feeling where my doggies are concerned. We live with them day to day and see more than the vets do. But that is just my opinion. I try to do a balance act. Right now I am in the process of weaning my 3 lb. Yorkie off of 2 mls per day of Metronidazole. My vet cut back by 50% and that was a disaster. I'm doing it gradually and am down to 1.4 mls per day and it is going well. I am making very sure, though that I give her Primal Defense every evening and a B-12 shot every 2 wks. Hope you find some answers. Seems like you have tried your best. Good luck. ~Joanne~

[Patti]

Welcome! Poor baby. My Cali who will be 5 soon has bad allergies but not near as bad as your little girl. I did all the testing, food and environmental and it came back she was not allergic to anything they tested for. The vet said the problem with environmental is that they can't test for everything out there. After trying the usual meds and steroids short term the vet put her on Atopica. Cali has mild MVD and a very sensitive tummy so we had to put her on a low dose of steroids for 2 weeks when we first put her on the Atopica because she kept throwing up. After 2 weeks on the low dose steroid and the Atopica she has been great. The vet had hoped to get her to taking it once or twice a week but if she even misses one day she starts itching some. So I have to keep her on the daily atopica. It costs 60.00 a month for her weight, 5.5 lbs. But it was such a relief to see her stop scratching. She has been on it for about 2 years now. I do worry about long term use but her quality of life is so much better now. Please keep us posted on how she is doing.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Patti

Welcome! Poor baby. My Cali who will be 5 soon has bad allergies but not near as bad as your little girl. I did all the testing, food and environmental and it came back she was not allergic to anything they tested for. The vet said the problem with environmental is that they can't test for everything out there. After trying the usual meds and steroids short term the vet put her on Atopica. Cali has mild MVD and a very sensitive tummy so we had to put her on a low dose of steroids for 2 weeks when we first put her on the Atopica because she kept throwing up. After 2 weeks on the low dose steroid and the Atopica she has been great. The vet had hoped to get her to taking it once or twice a week but if she even misses one day she starts itching some. So I have to keep her on the daily atopica. It costs 60.00 a month for her weight, 5.5 lbs. But it was such a relief to see her stop scratching. She has been on it for about 2 years now. I do worry about long term use but her quality of life is so much better now. Please keep us posted on how she is doing.

that is great

but what allergy lab did they do the testing at as i did two with two labs which my derm does not like but it was 5 years ago i had them done $400 each by vets so should have had derm do them as the labs she recommends are pretty accurate and on the allerdog group i am on many have had success with VARL lab and that is who our dermatologist uses but of course i will have to pay another $400 to get another allergy test done. the vets used biomedical and full spectrum labs and both showed dd was very highly allergic to alot of things one being sycamore and we live by sycamore canyone The derm does not like to do skin testing in toy breeds as she has to shave both sides of them and it is really hard on the dog to put that much in their small body to see reactions and they have to be off steroids for 6 weeks and that would be torture for my dd - they can do skin testing on dogs that are on atopica as i think and i could be wrong and have to ask our derm the reason is because steroids keep inflammation down in body and why the dog may not react to what they are injecting into the skin as what they are looking for in injecting things into skin is the skin getting red and inflamed and how they know if they are allergic to it and the steroids may prevent that where as atopica does not have an anti-inflammatory agent in it i do believe so does not affect the skin testing

Food allergy cannot be determined by blood testing and they do not skin test for that either so the only way to test that is by elimination diet and it is only in 10% of dogs anyway 90% of the time it is environmental which is the hardest to treat so you are left with hyposensitization which is safest but some dogs get worse which is why i never did it but derm said if she does then we stop, and atopica which in some dogs makes them vomit and did with mine even tried with little food, and steroids.

[Patti]

Cali had her blood sent to Heska Labs in Loveland, Co. back in 1/07. After we restarted her on the Atopica with the 2 weeks of steroids she has been ok except for the time the Atopica was late in being mailed to the vets and she was off for 5 days. When I started her back up she got sick again. So now the vet always has a months supply on hand for her.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Patti

Cali had her blood sent to Heska Labs in Loveland, Co. back in 1/07. After we restarted her on the Atopica with the 2 weeks of steroids she has been ok except for the time the Atopica was late in being mailed to the vets and she was off for 5 days. When I started her back up she got sick again. So now the vet always has a months supply on hand for her.

great to know i could not remember what lab you had hers done with- i am so glad she is doing well - wish dd did well on atopica it is a miracle drug when it works. Ann has had great success with it as well - figures mine would be the one not to tolerate it -ughhhhh

[lucirbc]

I went through this with my dog Lilo. The first year or so of her life was spent itching, scratching, and rubbing herself raw and scabby. After ruling out food allergies and several bouts of benedryl, steriods, temerol, etc., we finally ended up at the dermotlogist. We did not have the blood test done, as that does not test for everything and is not as accurate. She had a skin prick test like humans do. Ended up that she is allergic to the world! Our only option was allergy shots, which i giver her 1 time a week (although at first it is more often). To tell you the truth, it is the best thing i did. It was costly, but worth it. This time of year is bad for her so she is also on a perscription anthistimine as well (hydroxizine 2 times a day). If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by lucirbc

I went through this with my dog Lilo. The first year or so of her life was spent itching, scratching, and rubbing herself raw and scabby. After ruling out food allergies and several bouts of benedryl, steriods, temerol, etc., we finally ended up at the dermotlogist. We did not have the blood test done, as that does not test for everything and is not as accurate. She had a skin prick test like humans do. Ended up that she is allergic to the world! Our only option was allergy shots, which i giver her 1 time a week (although at first it is more often). To tell you the truth, it is the best thing i did. It was costly, but worth it. This time of year is bad for her so she is also on a perscription anthistimine as well (hydroxizine 2 times a day). If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

so happy you posted this as i contemplate constantly trying the shots so want to see posts like this where others have had some success as it is my one regret with dd

[MOMOF5]

Eb'i( 6yr. old Toy Poodle) has allergies to everything(food, environmental etc.). She has been on everything medical and numerous foods. She would tear her hair out and bite into her skin and bleed. I changed her to Life's Abundance food and so far so good on that end but she gets no treats of any kind. She also takes Atopica but also find that she does throw up after taking it sometimes. She has been on it for 3 yrs. now. She has had this "condition" since she was a year old. She doesn't even go out, except on the porch. On my Yorkie group this product was recommended (Dermajic skin rescue lotion). It will not "cure" her skin problems( She turns beet red and she is a white Poodle) but it alleviates her itchiness(ms) and she doesn't bite at herself and is no longer red. I hated to see her in so much discomfort and pain and was willing to try it or almost anything! I hope this is helpful.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by MOMOF5

Eb'i( 6yr. old Toy Poodle) has allergies to everything(food, environmental etc.). She has been on everything medical and numerous foods. She would tear her hair out and bite into her skin and bleed. I changed her to Life's Abundance food and so far so good on that end but she gets no treats of any kind. She also takes Atopica but also find that she does throw up after taking it sometimes. She has been on it for 3 yrs. now. She has had this "condition" since she was a year old. She doesn't even go out, except on the porch. On my Yorkie group this product was recommended (Dermajic skin rescue lotion). It will not "cure" her skin problems( She turns beet red and she is a white Poodle) but it alleviates her itchiness(ms) and she doesn't bite at herself and is no longer red. I hated to see her in so much discomfort and pain and was willing to try it or almost anything! I hope this is helpful.

sounds like the atopica was the biggest help as 90% of time it is environmental and i have looked into that food as well and has alot of ingredients but many really like the food for sure

thanks so much for posting this as allergies are very difficult and exhausting so the more information the better as it is a problem with this breed.

[MOMOF5]

Yes it does help but until I tried the lotion, she still got red and pulled out hair and bit into her skin. Maybe this may not be a miracle but it really has helped!

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by MOMOF5

Yes it does help but until I tried the lotion, she still got red and pulled out hair and bit into her skin. Maybe this may not be a miracle but it really has helped!

ok great as have never tried that - can you post a link for it

[HannaBananasMom]

Wow. Thank you ALL for the wonderful replies! I feel better just knowing we're not alone in these struggles. I'm watching my little Hanna sleep as I type, and I'm happy to report that she is currently happy & healthy with a full body of fluffy hair!

4Doggiemama: I definitely have to agree with you about going with your gut feeling because we live with them day to day and see more than the vets do. Right now Hanna is doing very well on a 1/2 tablet of temaril-p every other day (sometimes even every 2 days). In addition to this she is on Nature's Variety rabbit formula and absolutely nothing else/no treats/nothing. And I bathe her 1-2x per week with the Zymox shampoo and will rinse her in-between baths just to wash away to pollen and any other allergens. I really have no reason to transition her back to the Atopica at this point, even though this is what the vet wants us to do. I'm a little stuck as to why I should make a change when she is doing so well with the current plan.

Dwerten: I don't know if we've had a full thyroid panel done. I did ask her most recent vet to test her for hypothryoid a few months ago and she did, and told me her levels were normal. I'll have to go back to her for more specifics on exactly what that means and what test was performed.

Also, I do still wonder if some of her chewing at her back legs/hip area is in any way related to arthritis...just a thought. I'll have to bring it up to the vet when we're finally ready to go back there. It's just so overwhelming sometimes the amount of meds and products they try to push on you at the vet.

The other issue that will come up soon, is that I need to take her off of the Temaril in order to do a trial of Xanax (as recommended by her vet of course) for her travel anxiety, as we are moving and she will need to travel on a plane (about a 4 hr direct flight)!! Does anyone have any experience with bringing your pups in the cabin on a plane?

Thanks again! And sorry it takes me so long to get back...things are very hectic right now.

[Stella's mom]

What mg are you using? Stella is 3 and this is never ending, I can relate to everything written. She has had ketoconazole, currently taking prednisone, Atopica and benadryl.