9 weeks old.....shot time?

[Madison Rose]

Diva and Cooper are 9 weeks old today. Cooper is 1# 15oz but little Diva is 1# 11oz. I'm worried about giving her the first puppy shots. Am I being crazy or should I wait till she's a little bigger? I've know to just give the core vaccines, but even that seems alot for such a small little one.

Now or wait a little longer?

[Madison Rose]

Thanks to everyone. Posted on 2 forums and couldn't get 1 reply on either.

[jp4m2]

I'm sorry you didn't get any responses.....I'll try and answer based on my research.....

I'm glad to see your only doing core vaccines, good for you for looking into this issue....I wish more breeders would do the same for the long term health of the pup......

The age of the pup is important, the younger they are the less likely the vaccine will produce antibodies. It is commonly believed that puppies need a certain number of vaccines for protection to be achieved (usually either 3 or 4 is the “magic” number). The number of vaccines given has nothing to do with protection. In order for protection to be achieved, vaccine must be given when it can penetrate maternal antibody. These antibodies can last until 14-18 weeks depending on each pups level. Vaccinations are also much more stressful on the underdeveloped immune system. These are quotes from reliable sources.......

The maternal antibodies in a puppy younger than 16 weeks may interfere with the immune response. At the ages of 14 to 16 weeks of age, PAMA (passively acquired maternal antibody) should be at a level that will not block active immunization in most puppies (>95%) when a reliable product is used. It should be noted that giving vaccine more frequently than every 2 weeks will cause interference between the two vaccines and neither can be expected to be effective. This includes giving vaccines for different infections.
Vaccines should be spaced 3-4 weeks apart. Although increasing the number of components in a vaccine may be more convenient for the practitioner or owner, the likelihood for adverse effects may increase. (American Animal Hospital Association)


Multiple vaccinations with MLV vaccines are required at various ages only to ensure that one dose of the vaccine reaches the puppy's immune system without interference from passively acquired antibody. Two or more doses of killed vaccines (except rabies) and vectored vaccines are often required to induce an immune response, and both doses should be given at a time when the passively acquired antibody can no longer interfere. Thus, when puppies are first vaccinated at 16 weeks (or more) of age (an age when passively acquired antibodies generally don't cause interference), one does of an MLV vaccine, or two doses of a killed vaccine, are adequate to stimulate an immune response." (American Animal Hospital Association)



The amount of time between vaccines is also critical. It is believed 3-4 weeks is a good amount of time. Two weeks is too soon........This is from Dr. Bob Rogers......

We should not give vaccines two weeks apart. At the two week interval the immune system is at its peak response. Lots of non-specific inflammatory agents are stirred up. If we give another vaccine two weeks later we are more likely to get an adverse reaction and less likely to get a good immune response. Vaccines should be administered three or four weeks apart. An even longer interval will work just as well. IF A CLIENT IS LATE FOR A VACCINE IN THE INITIAL SERIES, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO START OVER.

Virologists recognize that a gap of at least 3-4 weeks is desirable between giving one vaccine and then a different one, because if not so spaced the immune response to the second vaccine may be inadequate and not produce sufficient specific antibodies to give immunity. If there is a dormant/latent viral infection already present in the recipient, vaccination against another pathogen could impair the immune system leading to the latent viral infection taking hold.


I know a lot of breeders and pet owners do the total oppisite of this info and claim their pups are doing great, this may or may not be true. Most of the complications that come from adverse reactions may not show up for a long time. When the immune system has been damaged it is on a cellular level the pup may appear fine but who knows what is brewing for the new pet owner because of improperly given vaccines. This is some of the complications the new owner may face.....

Up to six weeks after the shot:
Fibrosarcomas (cancer) at the injection site
Seizures and Epilepsy
Allergies
Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA)
Autoimmune diseases, including organ disease, allergies and skin problems
Chronic digestive problems
Muscle weakness, especially lack of hind end coordination
Chronic digestive disorders
Skin diseases
Disease the vaccine was made to prevent
Myocarditis
Post Vaccinal Encephalitis or polyneuritis
Behavior problems: aggression, destructive behaviors, separation anxiety and odd obsessive behaviors (like tail chasing and paw licking)

Also.......

There were over 4,000 dogs in the survey. We asked, if your dog is ill, when did he become ill in relation to the vaccine? We have been astounded by the results so far.

* 91% of Ataxia cases occurred within three months of a vaccine event
* 81% of dogs who had tumours at their vaccine sites, first developed the tumours within three months of being vaccinated
* 78.6% of dogs with encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) first developed the condition within three months of being vaccinated
* 73.1% of epileptic dogs first became epileptic within three months of being vaccinated
* 65.9% of dogs with colitis developed the condition within that first three months
* 64.9% of dogs with behavioural problems started to be a problem within three months of vaccination
* 61.5% of dogs developed liver failure within three months of being vaccinated.

The above figures were chosen at random from our findings to illustrate the principle to you: vaccines may be protecting our dogs against viral disease, but they are doing this at a very high price. If vaccination had no bearing on subsequent illness, only 25% of dogs should become ill in each three-month period.


This is from Dr. Schultz......“If you imprint the immune system incorrectly, it will never work correctly again.” Ronald D. Schultz.
So for a pet /breeder owner to say giving vaccines was harmless because the pup is running and playing the next day, well that remains to be seen..... there is a smart way and a careless way to administer vaccines.....

Sorry so long.......I'm so glad your researching this issue to do it the smart way, good for you......

[Madison Rose]

now I'm even more scared! I know they need the shots but they are so small and what I do will be with them for their whole lives!

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by Madison Rose

now I'm even more scared! I know they need the shots but they are so small and what I do will be with them for their whole lives!

I’m sorry…….All I’m trying to say is to take your time there is no set time to have vaccines done. As a matter of fact waiting is better for the pup, it allows their immune system to mature and it allows moms maternal antibodies to wear off so as to allow the vaccine to produce stronger antibodies. When it gets down to it only *you* will make the decisions as to what vaccines and when you’ll allow them…..Dr. Dodds and Dr. B. Rogers believe that 100% of the pups that come down with parvo contracted it at the vets office, this is also a good reason to wait……How many vets do you think would deny this??? ……..

You might want to do some reading about overvaccination….Try Dr. Dodds, Catherine O’Driscoll, Dr. Bob Rogers, Dr. Schultz, Dr. M. Goldstein….These are just some of the people who have been studying this issue for decades…… Here are some guidelines to follow that I found on a vaccine site….

1. When possible, give individual vaccines, not combination's (some vaccines only come as combination's and there is no option to give separately.) Adjuvants in the combination of different vaccines are highly suspect in vaccine associates sarcoma - injection site cancer. Combination shots are linked to autoimmune disease and other major health problems. Also, they invariably contain unnecessary and even dangerous vaccines.

2. DO NOT give a vaccination while other procedures are being performed, such as dentistry’s, surgery, grooming and boarding; these situations are already creating stress to the immune system. It may not be able to cope with the assault of rabies vaccine, a potent biologic agent.

3. DO NOT vaccinate a sick animal, no matter how mild the illness. Even a mild fever can thwart the action of rabies vaccine leaving the animal (and by extension its human) vulnerable to rabies if exposed. All vaccine labels state that they’re to be used in healthy animals. Unfortunately, vaccine labels don’t define “healthy” and most clients don’t know about this admonition. As a result, sick pets, immune-compromised pets, pets undergoing chemo and surgery, and even dying housebound pets are vaccinated. Any shots given to an unhealthy animal may well not provide immunity and will likely cause an adverse reaction, even death.

4. DO NOT vaccinate a pregnant animal

5. Any animals that have acute or chronic diseases should not be vaccinated. This includes animals with disorders such as food allergies, skin allergies, chronic bouts of diarrhea, chronic eye and ear infections and any immune or autoimmune associated disorder.

6. NEVER GIVE ANY OTHER SHOT WITH A RABIES SHOT. Wait at least three or four weeks between the rabies shot and other shots.

7. Do not give heartworm or flea meds, and do not worm, within two weeks of any vaccination. Shots don’t combine well with heartworm, worm, or flea and tick meds — or rabies shots.

Also…..

Dr. Hamilton, a holistic veterinarian and author of Homeopathic Care for Cats and Dogs, suggests that we should only vaccinate our dogs against diseases that meet all of the following criteria:

1. The disease is serious, even life threatening.
2. The dog is or will be exposed to the disease.
3. The vaccine for the disease is known to be effective.
4. The vaccine for the disease is safe.


As to what schedule you’ll use is up to you…….Some people can’t get past the fact that “sets of three” vaccines for parvo & distemper are not needed, if they vaccinate smarter. There is absolutely no science behind this recommendation. So they continue to do them out of habit and fear……Then there are others who will wait until the pup is around 14 weeks and only do one parvo, wait 4 weeks and then do a distemper. It they are not quite comfortable with this, they will do a booster at one year of age for the parvo and distemper.. If at any time you want to see if the vaccine produced the desired antibodies. Then a person can do a “titer” test two weeks after a vaccine is administered. If there is a strong titer then you can’t ask for anything better……This is from Dr Dodds……

One of the veterinary pioneers, Dr. W. Jean Dodds, president of the nonprofit animal version of the Red Cross called Hemopet, reported that the recommendations for annual vaccines were just that -- recommendations. They were not based on any scientific evidence.
The recommendations for annual vaccination were put forth jointly by the United States Department of Agriculture and the drug companies, more than twenty years ago. And veterinary medicine has continued to do it that way because, well, that’s the way it’s always been done.


Here are some examples of various schedules by some researchers and advocates……

* Dr. J. Dodds:
Parvo and distemper: each starting at, 9-10wks.& 14 wks, spacing 3-4 weeks apart, then at one year titer or booster.
Rabies: as late as law allows, 3-4 weeks apart from other vaccines.
No other vaccine unless specific circumstances dictate an urgent need.


* An example of a safe puppy vaccination schedule as suggested by Dr. Pitcairn is as follows:

* From 0 week to 22 weeks - keep the puppy isolated from other dogs
* First distemper - 16 weeks
* First parvo - 20 weeks
* Second distemper - 24 weeks
* Second parvo - 28 weeks
* Rabies - 32 weeks

* Dr. Schultz.
Parvo & distemper. one of each 15-16 wks. of age. Titer two weeks later. If low, revaccinate, and test again. No more vaccines.
Rabies: by law

Canine Distemper (MLV) 10-12 weeks
Canine Parvovirus (MLV) 12-14 weeks


*Dr. Charles Loops D.V.M.
After three months of age :
Give one Distemper/Parvo vaccination. If separate vaccines are available, space the Distemper and Parvovirus vaccinations by three to four weeks. Rabies vaccinations should be delayed until six months of age. Lyme disease, Coronavirus, and Kennel Cough vaccines do not meet the criteria mentioned previously for a useful vaccine and I do not recommend giving them. Lifetime protection is highly likely after one vaccination.

I just anted to mention that there are a couple of great books out on this subject ( you may find them at the library)......The more you read the better you'll feel about the decisions you'll make......

*Stop the Shots
*Vaccine Guide for Dogs and Cats: What Every Pet Lover Should Know
*Shock to the System: The Facts About Animal Vaccination, Pet Food And How to Keep Your Pets Healthy
*Stop the Shots!: Are Vaccinations Killing Our Pets?