possible pancretitis / diet

[valerieam]

A month ago Pippin had severe vomiting during the night, with flecks of red blood. I took him to the vet and he said either pancreatitis, intestinal infection or ate something poisonous. He put him on antibiotics, medication and did blood tests. He had me start feeding him Hills I/D food.

The blood tests showed the lipase levels at 4,300. He had no more vomiting. He had one black tarry stool, and has been fine since. After a month we did another lipase test. It came back 799. The vet said he would like it a little lower, but just keep him on the Hill I/D. I mentioned I'd read about the Hills Z/D being lower in fat, and he said the I/D was fine.

I need to purchase more food and I don't know which way to go. In the posts I've seen suggestions for:
Purina HA
Hills I/D, W/D, Z/D,
Wellness Core Reduced Fat
Royal Canin Low Fat LF20

My vet sells Hill so I think that is why he suggests that. If he wants his levels to go lower why didn't he think I should go with the lower fat (W/D or Z/D)?

Pippin is 2 1/2 years old and never had any stomach or bowel problems. I had been feeding him Neutro Natural Choice for sensitive stomachs. I chose that because he did have some itching. I need to call and ask the vet today did we find out that it is pancreatitis or could it have been a intestional infection.

Any suggestions? I'm almost out of the Hills I/D and I don't know if I should keep him on that or try something else.

[Ellie May]

Since the I/D is working, I think I'd stick with it for now. The I/D is formulated for intestinal health. That doesn't mean it works for all dogs (don't more do well on W/D), so that's probably why a lot of vets (who sell S/D) use it.

Any particular reason you would rather go with Purina? Or RC?
Purina HA is fine, but it just cause very firm stool in some dogs and I personally don't think that's a great thing (my girl was on it for awhile...). The Z/D Ultra also works for some, but gave mine softer stool than she already had. So all dogs are different. If the I/D is working well, do you really want to chance a flare-up by changing it? I wouldn't say he needs to be on it for life, but maybe until the lipase is where the vet wants it? BTW, that lipase is not that high. Ellie's runs around there/a bit lower (she has had pancreatitis) and it isn't a huge deal for her.

[valerieam]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Since the I/D is working, I think I'd stick with it for now. The I/D is formulated for intestinal health. That doesn't mean it works for all dogs (don't more do well on W/D), so that's probably why a lot of vets (who sell S/D) use it.

Any particular reason you would rather go with Purina? Or RC?
Purina HA is fine, but it just cause very firm stool in some dogs and I personally don't think that's a great thing (my girl was on it for awhile...). The Z/D Ultra also works for some, but gave mine softer stool than she already had. So all dogs are different. If the I/D is working well, do you really want to chance a flare-up by changing it? I wouldn't say he needs to be on it for life, but maybe until the lipase is where the vet wants it? BTW, that lipase is not that high. Ellie's runs around there/a bit lower (she has had pancreatitis) and it isn't a huge deal for her.

I thought Science Diet wasn't that great of food that is the only reason I was looking at other options. So, you would stay with the I/D? What do you have Ellie on now? Do you feed her the canned or kibble?

The lipase at 799 is great compared to the 4,300 it was. He just said he thought it should be around 700. Since the range shows from 200-1,800 I'm not as concerned about that now.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by valerieam

I thought Science Diet wasn't that great of food that is the only reason I was looking at other options. So, you would stay with the I/D? What do you have Ellie on now? Do you feed her the canned or kibble?

The lipase at 799 is great compared to the 4,300 it was. He just said he thought it should be around 700. Since the range shows from 200-1,800 I'm not as concerned about that now.

I agree. S/D rx diets don't have appealing ingredients; however, when it is a matter of stopping pancreatitis, I'd use it. You could try the W/D and that is probably perfectly fine (or any other food that is commonly used for this). I know others have had problems with I/D. I'm just saying your pup isn't having a problem, so I wouldn't be too quick to change it.

Ellie eats homecooked food. Both HA and Ultra Z/D did not work for her intestinal issues. I prefer to make it myself anyway (because I I really don't trust dog food companies).

[Izzy Princess]

Oh Pippin and mommy we are so sorry to hear about the pancreatitis. Well Izzy has chronic along with SIBO and IBD and we almost lost her a few times because. It took us a very long time and a lot of work with vets/forum/nutrionist/holistic vet, etc. to finally get somewhat under control.

Please do not use the Hills ID since it has pork liver and not good for pancreatitis. Izzy was so bad the first time we had her at the vet for 2 nights and IVs in her. She was sent home with the Hills WD and that worked for months so the vet said let's switch her now to ID and within 3 weeks she was sick again. So from there the search went on for months.

Finally found that she does well on steamed tilapia with green beans pulvarized for dinner. For breakfast she gets the Purina EN and if you go canned it's the best of the bunch since it has coconut oil in which is a good fat for them.

We have Izzy on tons of supplements too and come May it will be one year that we have had her stabilized. This started 11/08 and took us to 5/09 to get it under control somewhat. She still has her fussy days with not eating but she has not thrown up since May so to us and our vets that is so good.

keep us posted

[valerieam]

Originally Posted by Izzy Princess

Oh Pippin and mommy we are so sorry to hear about the pancreatitis. Well Izzy has chronic along with SIBO and IBD and we almost lost her a few times because. It took us a very long time and a lot of work with vets/forum/nutrionist/holistic vet, etc. to finally get somewhat under control.

Please do not use the Hills ID since it has pork liver and not good for pancreatitis. Izzy was so bad the first time we had her at the vet for 2 nights and IVs in her. She was sent home with the Hills WD and that worked for months so the vet said let's switch her now to ID and within 3 weeks she was sick again. So from there the search went on for months.

Finally found that she does well on steamed tilapia with green beans pulvarized for dinner. For breakfast she gets the Purina EN and if you go canned it's the best of the bunch since it has coconut oil in which is a good fat for them.

We have Izzy on tons of supplements too and come May it will be one year that we have had her stabilized. This started 11/08 and took us to 5/09 to get it under control somewhat. She still has her fussy days with not eating but she has not thrown up since May so to us and our vets that is so good.

keep us posted

Thank you for the info. It's funny we are having tilapia for dinner tonight.

Since I work it would be difficult to do the home cooking all the time, but if it meant he will be healthier I might have to go that route. I have considered a nutritionist, but I don't think we have any here. I'd probably have to go to Sacramento or San Francisco. I haven't ruled that out. I trust my vet but I don't think nutrition is his strength.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I agree. S/D rx diets don't have appealing ingredients; however, when it is a matter of stopping pancreatitis, I'd use it. You could try the W/D and that is probably perfectly fine (or any other food that is commonly used for this). I know others have had problems with I/D. I'm just saying your pup isn't having a problem, so I wouldn't be too quick to change it.

Ellie eats homecooked food. Both HA and Ultra Z/D did not work for her intestinal issues. I prefer to make it myself anyway (because I I really don't trust dog food companies).

[Izzy Princess]

Originally Posted by valerieam

Thank you for the info. It's funny we are having tilapia for dinner tonight.

Since I work it would be difficult to do the home cooking all the time, but if it meant he will be healthier I might have to go that route. I have considered a nutritionist, but I don't think we have any here. I'd probably have to go to Sacramento or San Francisco. I haven't ruled that out. I trust my vet but I don't think nutrition is his strength.

I work full time as well but I buy the frozen tilapia at the grocery store or Sams Club (way cheaper) and then only steam 3 filets in a plain old Glad bag (one minute for each filet and add 30 seconds..lol..the formula for my micro) and then done and I cut up in small pieces...place in airtight container and refrigerate.

For the green beans - just buy the bag of Steamfresh ones and nuke it and then use your food processor. I place in those silicone ice cube trays and then just pop out one or two cubes and nuke that.

So easy and fast..trust me....I work full time, work out after work and try to hang out with my husband..lol. Plus it's not that expensive...even if I did this meal 2x a day..which I did for a while but then use the canned Purina EN in the am and fish in the evening.

I would try it tonight with your baby since you are having tilapia..just give a few bites and see.

[hugz4all4]

One question.. if the I/D has pork in it, which may cause pancreatis (sp?) then why do so many vets use it for just that?? I dont buy that its because they get a kick back from it, not with rx diets anyways... so please give me another reason. They make rx diets for a reason, for dogs that have issues and need it. I have a dog on the I/D and he is doing great and will be on it for life. It is not the best food out there but it is working for him, he doesnt have stomach issues but has a fatty blood condition that requires him to be on a low fat/protien food. However, when both him and my beagle were sick with a stomach issue a few years back, they were both prescriped the I/D and it was the only food they could tolerate for a long time, anything else made them sick.
If the food is working for dog then why risk changing it making her sick?

[valerieam]

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

One question.. if the I/D has pork in it, which may cause pancreatis (sp?) then why do so many vets use it for just that?? I dont buy that its because they get a kick back from it, not with rx diets anyways... so please give me another reason. They make rx diets for a reason, for dogs that have issues and need it. I have a dog on the I/D and he is doing great and will be on it for life. It is not the best food out there but it is working for him, he doesnt have stomach issues but has a fatty blood condition that requires him to be on a low fat/protien food. However, when both him and my beagle were sick with a stomach issue a few years back, they were both prescriped the I/D and it was the only food they could tolerate for a long time, anything else made them sick.
If the food is working for dog then why risk changing it making her sick?

I question that also. If the Hills W/D and Ultra Z/D are lower infat and protien wouldn't they be better?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

One question.. if the I/D has pork in it, which may cause pancreatis (sp?) then why do so many vets use it for just that?? I dont buy that its because they get a kick back from it, not with rx diets anyways... so please give me another reason. They make rx diets for a reason, for dogs that have issues and need it. I have a dog on the I/D and he is doing great and will be on it for life. It is not the best food out there but it is working for him, he doesnt have stomach issues but has a fatty blood condition that requires him to be on a low fat/protien food. However, when both him and my beagle were sick with a stomach issue a few years back, they were both prescriped the I/D and it was the only food they could tolerate for a long time, anything else made them sick.
If the food is working for dog then why risk changing it making her sick?

i agree if it works stick with it HOWEVER my dog relapsed on I/D after having pancreatitis and it made him get really sick and internal medicine specialist who has more experience than vets does not recommend this food for pancreatitis. So many vets recommend it because they do not do their research and only go by what mfg says works for a certain disease and hill's I/D says it is for pancreatitis but it does have pork in it which is high in fat. My pancreatitis ibd dog is now on purina ha a hydrolized diet of 8% fat and doing well for 4 years and he did well on ultra z/d as that is also a hydrolized diet but it made him itch too much so we switched as he never itched before on any food. I think the hydrolized is key many times for ibd dogs that can trigger pancreas as the protein is broken down further and easily digested. Many dogs have pancreatitis from ibd in small intestines which triggers the pancreas. Inflammatory foods like white potato are not good for these dogs

keep in mind each dog is unique and if you have a dog that is doing well on a food then by all means stick with it because the change could lead to more health issues and more vet bills so the best food for a dog is a food that works and keeps them from getting sick in an unhealthy dog

the way you know if a dog is prone to pancreatitis is on a 12 hr fasting blood work if triglycerides are high like my dogs then that dog has a high fat content in blood therefore the dog is predisposed to pancreatitis and there was an article on this in the whole dog journal not too long ago hyperlipdemia i believe is what it was also about. This breed is also predisposed to it and this breed has alot of digestive issues as well such as ibd so if your dog does well on a food then stick to it until it does not work anymore

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Izzy Princess

I work full time as well but I buy the frozen tilapia at the grocery store or Sams Club (way cheaper) and then only steam 3 filets in a plain old Glad bag (one minute for each filet and add 30 seconds..lol..the formula for my micro) and then done and I cut up in small pieces...place in airtight container and refrigerate.

For the green beans - just buy the bag of Steamfresh ones and nuke it and then use your food processor. I place in those silicone ice cube trays and then just pop out one or two cubes and nuke that.

So easy and fast..trust me....I work full time, work out after work and try to hang out with my husband..lol. Plus it's not that expensive...even if I did this meal 2x a day..which I did for a while but then use the canned Purina EN in the am and fish in the evening.

I would try it tonight with your baby since you are having tilapia..just give a few bites and see.

hey girl glad to see you back

i have been pilling dee dee with wild cod as tilapia is farm raised and have read that is not that good for them - have you tried the cod?

How is Izzy girl and i am sure cosmo is doing awesome

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Izzy Princess

Oh Pippin and mommy we are so sorry to hear about the pancreatitis. Well Izzy has chronic along with SIBO and IBD and we almost lost her a few times because. It took us a very long time and a lot of work with vets/forum/nutrionist/holistic vet, etc. to finally get somewhat under control.

Please do not use the Hills ID since it has pork liver and not good for pancreatitis. Izzy was so bad the first time we had her at the vet for 2 nights and IVs in her. She was sent home with the Hills WD and that worked for months so the vet said let's switch her now to ID and within 3 weeks she was sick again. So from there the search went on for months.

Finally found that she does well on steamed tilapia with green beans pulvarized for dinner. For breakfast she gets the Purina EN and if you go canned it's the best of the bunch since it has coconut oil in which is a good fat for them.

We have Izzy on tons of supplements too and come May it will be one year that we have had her stabilized. This started 11/08 and took us to 5/09 to get it under control somewhat. She still has her fussy days with not eating but she has not thrown up since May so to us and our vets that is so good.

keep us posted

that is AWESOME i am so glad she is on track gf yep I/D jacked up dexter too after being on it for a week but it does work for some dogs i just will never use it for mine again

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by valerieam

I thought Science Diet wasn't that great of food that is the only reason I was looking at other options. So, you would stay with the I/D? What do you have Ellie on now? Do you feed her the canned or kibble?

The lipase at 799 is great compared to the 4,300 it was. He just said he thought it should be around 700. Since the range shows from 200-1,800 I'm not as concerned about that now.

Lipase alone will not determine pancreatitis they both have to be elevated sounds like a fluke to me and cpli is the true test for pancreatitis anyway - Lipase is the enzyme from pancreas that digests fats so sounds like a high fat meal may have been eaten prior to test did you do a fasting blood test or after food as best to always do a 12 hr fasting blood work up . Amylase is an enzyme from pancreas that digests starch and sugar and usually with pancreatitis both are elevated BUT not always as my dex was normal on both and really sick and vice versa when not sick his numbers were super high so again CPLI is the test for pancreatitis not amylase and lipase as those can be all over the place i have found

Amylase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lipase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

both of my yorkies dex and dd always have higher than normal lipase but amylase is normal and dex has high triglycerides on 12 hr fast even on an 8% fat diet

[shodanusmc]

Iams Low Residue also works well for Pancreatitis. Our has been on it for years with nore mo bouts. A little wet with some kibble mixed in. Also Iams Low cal treats, and no table food.